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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    A) Tree takes 50-100 years to grow ten hours to burn.

    B) In that 50-100 years a bio diverse eco system develops with the tree.

    C) Then there is the processing and delivery but we can leave that till you next put your smoke-filled head up
    A) Depending on the species, a tree can continue growing way longer than that.....However, commercial plantations here regularly fell after about 40 years.

    B) Again, depends on the species. Coniferous plantations have a relatively poor eco-system. Nevertheless, its probably better to have that, than a bare hillside. When time's up, I'd expect anything with legs or wings to vacate a tree being felled, for another safer abode elsewhere in the plantation.

    But if it's a diverse and durable forest ecosystem you want, there are much better ways to go about it. E.g. by campaigning for land to be planted up with a wide range of native tree species. Not for felling, but for keeping for the enjoyment of all, man and beast alike.

    C) There's also an environmental cost to fossil-fuel extraction and supply. Making a huge steel drilling rig and miles of supply pipeline creates plenty C02.
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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by The PNP View Post
    A) Depending on the species, a tree can continue growing way longer than that.....However, commercial plantations here regularly fell after about 40 years.

    B) Again, depends on the species. Coniferous plantations have a relatively poor eco-system. Nevertheless, its probably better to have that, than a bare hillside. When time's up, I'd expect anything with legs or wings to vacate a tree being felled, for another safer abode elsewhere in the plantation.

    But if it's a diverse and durable forest ecosystem you want, there are much better ways to go about it. E.g. by campaigning for land to be planted up with a wide range of native tree species. Not for felling, but for keeping for the enjoyment of all, man and beast alike.

    C) There's also an environmental cost to fossil-fuel extraction and supply. Making a huge steel drilling rig and miles of supply pipeline creates plenty C02.
    I know you have your own ideas and opinions, but a little personal experience, I know 3 people who have wood burning stoves, 2 are fairly new and modern, 1 is an older stove.

    The 2 who had new stoves installed did so to reduce their use of gas/electricity, but both found the dust and dirt created was simply not worth the effort and neither stoves are used, both families back to just gas fired central heating, the 1 who uses the wood stove does so because the stove also runs hot water and central heating, gas is not an option for them.

    Ironically the 1 family using the wood stove are non smokers, yet their home feels like it’s occupied by chain smokers, they seem to need to redecorate very frequently as opposed to most.

    Don’t pretend to be some sort of expert, but based on what I’ve seen, wouldn’t have a wood burner in the garden, let alone in the house.

    Incidentally comparing your “modern” stoves to an open fire is like comparing a modern A rated gas boiler to the old style gas fires from years back.

  4. #63
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    Addendum to post #62:
    Wood stoves were popular in the more prosperous outer London Boroughs and elsewhere in the Home Counties not for any particular utility, but because they were fashionable. Perhaps reports attributing pm2.5 particle emissions have diminished this fashionability. I wonder?


    It may be a feature of advancing age, but I am increasingly skeptical about the rationality of humankind. There was a comparable fashion for (gas or solid fuel) ranges — I suppose it was retro chic. In this modest household, neither would ever be remotely attractive propositions.

  5. #64
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    "If you don't pretend to be green then it's much harder to pin accusations of hypocrisy. | If you don't preach to others about your faux green lifestyle you escape charges of hypocrisy the eco clown hasn't yet cottoned on to that." — post #59

    "faux green" ?
    Asserting someone who advocates measures aimed at a reduction of CO² and other gases responsible for climate change, out of concern for the future well-being of us all, as a 'faux ' hypocrite for failing to measure-up in some respects is sanctimonious. It does you no credit.

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  7. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by silver fox View Post
    A) The 2 who had new stoves installed did so to reduce their use of gas/electricity, but both found the dust and dirt created was simply not worth the effort and neither stoves are used, both families back to just gas fired central heating, the 1 who uses the wood stove does so because the stove also runs hot water and central heating, gas is not an option for them.

    B) Ironically the 1 family using the wood stove are non smokers, yet their home feels like it’s occupied by chain smokers, they seem to need to redecorate very frequently as opposed to most.
    A) People sometimes do go into it, hoping they'll save money on heating bills. A lot is dependent on what you pay for the fuel, as prices vary widely. E.g. a petrol station typically charges double what a discount store like Home Bargains will.

    Then there's choice of stoves kw rating, along with its location in a property. The right stove in the right place, can make a central heating boiler virtually redundant. Whereas, incorrect size/location can leave much of a property cold and/or cost more than hoped for, to run.

    B) Have the family a carbon monoxide alarm? Because it sounds as if flue gas is getting into the room. That would indicate a stove in need of inspection and service - there could be a flue blockage or defective stovepipe joints/frayed firedoor rope seal.
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  8. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandGroundZero View Post
    "If you don't pretend to be green then it's much harder to pin accusations of hypocrisy. | If you don't preach to others about your faux green lifestyle you escape charges of hypocrisy the eco clown hasn't yet cottoned on to that." — post #59

    "faux green" ?
    Asserting someone who advocates measures aimed at a reduction of CO² and other gases responsible for climate change, out of concern for the future well-being of us all, as a 'faux ' hypocrite for failing to measure-up in some respects is sanctimonious. It does you no credit.

    Absolutely laughable ill-thought nonsense,
    the eco Clown is called a hypocrite exactly because he

    advocates measures aimed at a reduction of CO² and other gases responsible for climate change, out of concern for the future well-being of us all,


    yet does the opposite, in his own words, he operates the diesel's vehicles he decries and sells polluting forest destroying, lung killing stoves.

    He then tries to fool people into believing he operates an electric car when all he has is an electric bike.

  9. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    Absolutely laughable ill-thought nonsense,
    the eco Clown is called a hypocrite exactly because he

    advocates measures aimed at a reduction of CO² and other gases responsible for climate change, out of concern for the future well-being of us all,


    yet does the opposite, in his own words, he operates the diesel's vehicles he decries and sells polluting forest destroying, lung killing stoves.

    He then tries to fool people into believing he operates an electric car when all he has is an electric bike.


    You are all totally wrong! I bet you would have criticised Hunter Gatherers for lightingbush fires! Well - back on topic, and here is an article that may interest anyone intend choosing an electric car:

    "Linda Barnes and her husband had to visit six charging stations, wasting nine hours in total on their 130-mile drive from Bournemouth to Kent. Had they owned an internal combustion-engined vehicle instead of a Porsche Taycan 4S, the journey would have taken the couple roughly two and a half hours.

    Linda and her husband left Bournemouth with 45 miles of range left, hoping to charge their vehicle at the first station on their route. “We plugged it in, but nothing happened,” she told The Guardian. Worse still, “a parking attendant told us the charger had been out of action for weeks.”

    After touring several more chargers, a helping hand came from a nearby garage with an exasperatingly slow charger. They didn’t stay too long, hoping to be a little luckier at the next motorway services. Upon arriving, a woman told them the charger didn’t work until she called the helpline.

    Because the call center was about to close, Linda decided to pass this station as well. At the next stop on their already frustrating journey, the protagonist and her husband were given a choice. They had to either queue in order to use a 7-kW charger with a 45-minute time limit or drive to a nearby hotel that had charging points. On the phone with hotel staff, the couple was told that “they had no idea what type it was or if it was even working.”

    Fast-forward to a selection of Tesla Superchargers at a motorway services, and they were surprised to find out that Superchargers can’t be used to fill up the Taycan. Fortunately for Linda and her partner, a nearby fast charger was available and they were finally able to charge the vehicle.

    What can we learn from this story? For starters, never leave home in your EV with a low charge, expecting the first charging station on your way to be operational. Secondly, the EV charging network in the United Kingdom is a mixed bag of sockets, charging rates, and payment methods. Without proper involvement from the government’s part, these problems will surely get worse as more and more people trade in ICEs for electric vehicles.

    And the British government has to act very fast. Lest we forget, the sales ban on new gasoline and diesel vehicles will go into effect in 2030.


    [COLOR=#980000 !important][/COLOR]

  10. #68
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    It may be a feature of advancing age, but I am increasingly skeptical about the rationality of humankind. There was a comparable fashion for (gas or solid fuel) ranges — I suppose it was retro chic. In this modest household, neither would ever be remotely attractive propositions.[/QUOTE]

    Don't whatever you do - go to Cornwall or Ireland - they use Aga stoves and very efficient they are too! I guess there must be a few million such stoves all across the UK.

    Green - is well over rated and misunderstood by many. If you compare Forest fires and pasture fires that are a regular feature all over the world, one little old wood burner ain't gonna make a damned bit of difference.

    Nature is a powerful feature - a massive number of factory burners will not affect it.

  11. Likes The PNP liked this post
  12. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    You are all totally wrong! I bet you would have criticised Hunter Gatherers for lightingbush fires! Well - back on topic, and here is an article that may interest anyone intend choosing an electric car:

    "Linda Barnes and her husband had to visit six charging stations, wasting nine hours in total on their 130-mile drive from Bournemouth to Kent. Had they owned an internal combustion-engined vehicle instead of a Porsche Taycan 4S, the journey would have taken the couple roughly two and a half hours.

    Linda and her husband left Bournemouth with 45 miles of range left, hoping to charge their vehicle at the first station on their route. “We plugged it in, but nothing happened,” she told The Guardian. Worse still, “a parking attendant told us the charger had been out of action for weeks.”

    After touring several more chargers, a helping hand came from a nearby garage with an exasperatingly slow charger. They didn’t stay too long, hoping to be a little luckier at the next motorway services. Upon arriving, a woman told them the charger didn’t work until she called the helpline.

    Because the call center was about to close, Linda decided to pass this station as well. At the next stop on their already frustrating journey, the protagonist and her husband were given a choice. They had to either queue in order to use a 7-kW charger with a 45-minute time limit or drive to a nearby hotel that had charging points. On the phone with hotel staff, the couple was told that “they had no idea what type it was or if it was even working.”

    Fast-forward to a selection of Tesla Superchargers at a motorway services, and they were surprised to find out that Superchargers can’t be used to fill up the Taycan. Fortunately for Linda and her partner, a nearby fast charger was available and they were finally able to charge the vehicle.

    What can we learn from this story? For starters, never leave home in your EV with a low charge, expecting the first charging station on your way to be operational. Secondly, the EV charging network in the United Kingdom is a mixed bag of sockets, charging rates, and payment methods. Without proper involvement from the government’s part, these problems will surely get worse as more and more people trade in ICEs for electric vehicles.

    And the British government has to act very fast. Lest we forget, the sales ban on new gasoline and diesel vehicles will go into effect in 2030.


    [COLOR=#980000 !important][/COLOR]
    All ready posted in post #48
    Never, ever, argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

  13. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rigsby View Post
    All ready posted in post #48

    Whoops! Sorry - I did not recognise the link - I had the full content sent to me. I do apologise.

  14. #71
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    There may be a few martyrs to the cause of ZERO GHG emissions who strive to achieve personal or household zero emissions. However everyone who is conscientiously trying to limit their household CO² knows it is practically impossible. Zero CO² emissions are a problem requiring the whole population's participation. In that context, few measure-up to the challenges. The solutions require collective action and near-universal application.
    PM10 and PM2.5:
    Small particulate matter in the atmosphere is primarily a Cardiovascular health issue. Small particulate matter PMs have an indirect relation to GHG emissions inasmuch as some so-called carbon offsetting involves substituting bio-fuels for fossil fuels; combustion of the latter generates PMs.

    All things considered, levelling the charge of hypocrisy (as some do in this forum) to perpetuate a personal gripe, is not really defensible. Far better to laud limited efforts than argue the toss !

  15. Likes The PNP liked this post
  16. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    Absolutely laughable ill-thought nonsense,
    the eco Clown is called a hypocrite exactly because he.....then tries to fool people into believing he operates an electric car when all he has is an electric bike.
    Nonsense - I've never specifically claimed to run an electric car or an electric bicycle. What I do truthfully have and use for personal transport, are leg-powered pushbikes and one electric vehicle. Make of that what you will.

    But surely we're missing the point here. Whatever form my electric transport medium may take, what really counts is the fact that it is not a fossil fuel burner.
    Last edited by The PNP; 30/11/2020 at 11:04 AM.
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  17. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by The PNP View Post
    Nonsense - I've never specifically claimed to run an electric car or an electric bicycle. What I do have and use for personal transport, are leg-powered pushbikes and one electric vehicle.

    But surely we're missing the point here. Whatever form my electric transport medium may take, what really counts is the fact that it is not a fossil fuel burner.
    Funny how you easily recognise yourself as the Eco clown.

  18. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by justbecause View Post
    Funny how you easily recognise yourself as the Eco clown.
    Tbh, I'd turn the tables and attach that monica to the other guy....As only a clown could describe a convert to electric traction in that way.
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  19. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandGroundZero View Post
    There may be a few martyrs to the cause of ZERO GHG emissions who strive to achieve personal or household zero emissions. However everyone who is conscientiously trying to limit their household CO² knows it is practically impossible. Zero CO² emissions are a problem requiring the whole population's participation. In that context, few measure-up to the challenges. The solutions require collective action and near-universal application.
    PM10 and PM2.5:
    Small particulate matter in the atmosphere is primarily a Cardiovascular health issue. Small particulate matter PMs have an indirect relation to GHG emissions inasmuch as some so-called carbon offsetting involves substituting bio-fuels for fossil fuels; combustion of the latter generates PMs.

    All things considered, levelling the charge of hypocrisy (as some do in this forum) to perpetuate a personal gripe, is not really defensible. Far better to laud limited efforts than argue the toss !


    My charge of hypocrisy is labelled at one particular person who goes out of their way to decry diesel vehicles yet runs one.

    This faux green clown also sells the most polluting form of home heating available.

    You are defending a meat-eating vegetarian, a bible bashing atheist if the said clown practised what they preached you wouldn't get a peep out of me.

    If the said clown didn't preach one thing and do another then again you wouldn't get a peep out of me.

    Defending a hypocrite will drive you into a cul de sac.

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