Taking the knee

[Grassroots.]

Forgive if this subject has been previously discussed on the the forum. But I honestly cannot see it making a difference, I know that every little helps but surely the idiot racists are just laughing at the gesture.
I think any form of racism is abhorrent, and think that more arrests should be made . Are these vile idiots just putting two finger up to the law .

[sandGroundZero]

"…the idiot racists are just laughing at the gesture. …"

— post #1 Grassroots.

The gesture is, presumably, intended to shame the government and officialdom generally, over complacency and inaction with respect of persistent structural racism.
Laughing "idiot racists " behaviour in the short run is another problem.

[Grassroots.]

"…the idiot racists are just laughing at the gesture. …"

— post #1 Grassroots.

The gesture is, presumably, intended to shame the government and officialdom generally, over complacency and inaction with respect of persistent structural racism.
Laughing "idiot racists " behaviour in the short run is another problem.

Yes I agree it is aimed at the authorities, but is it enough to make them do something, I would suggest the educating the youngsters would have a better impact , yes it would take time, but surely education is the answer.

[salus.populi]

Yes I agree it is aimed at the authorities, but is it enough to make them do something, I would suggest the educating the youngsters would have a better impact , yes it would take time, but surely education is the answer.

Seeing their footballing heroes make a gesture is part of that education.

[seivad]

Yes I agree it is aimed at the authorities, but is it enough to make them do something, I would suggest the educating the youngsters would have a better impact , yes it would take time, but surely education is the answer.

Children aren't born with racial bias, but once it has taken root it's very difficult to undo it. In some homes, they may learn it from their parents way before they attend school. In other homes, parents may not have any bias to transfer to their children, but once they start school they may learn it from their peers. In my opinion, the earlier they are taught that racial bias is wrong, the better. Don't wait until they start school. Arm them with the truth before they encounter the ugly bigotry that still exists in our society.

For those children who have already learned racial bias, the more examples of anti-racist actions they witness from their heroes, the better.

[local]

We have been here before with token gestures and salutes,
the black-gloved salutes at international sporting tournaments in the 1960's?

When we all accept that all people matter not just because they have a sporting or media presence to trade on we might get somewhere.

[MICK/GILLY]

Awareness is a good thing and racial equality is a must but I think we have got the message now after the government has ploughed over 50 million quid into black and ethnic minority business start up loans in London alone and made grants particularly for BAME, and now the police force is walking on eggshells when most of them are not racist anyway.

With not being racist it really baffles me this Black Lives Matter thing, it never occurred to me that any type of people’s lives don’t matter and to see folk saying black lives matter implies that they don’t, and we need to be made aware that they do. Ok I get it some people are racist and that but for those that are not, to be told this is frustrating, perplexing and even saddening, I can’t put my finger on it but it smacks of some sort of manipulation. I wonder where your donation really goes when you donate to BLM.
I would now like the sports personalities to take the knee for the NHS, the victims of covid, the emergency services, the soldiers that never returned and the cyclists that didn’t make it through the red lights.

[Steed]

The Premier League has had its own anti-racism schemes for a number of years now, “Kick it Out” and “No Room for Racism”.

The taking the knee, was started as far as I’m aware, following the killing of George Flloyd in America in the name of BLM.

BLM is a questionable group with aspersions to become a political party, those not familiar with with their views should read their web page.

While I fully support the anti-racism schemes I think the Premier league and Sky TV should distance themselves from the BLM movement and concentrate on promoting the No Room for Racism program.

[seivad]

Awareness is a good thing and racial equality is a must but I think we have got the message now after the government has ploughed over 50 million quid into black and ethnic minority business start up loans in London alone and made grants particularly for BAME, and now the police force is walking on eggshells when most of them are not racist anyway.

With not being racist it really baffles me this Black Lives Matter thing, it never occurred to me that any type of people’s lives don’t matter and to see folk saying black lives matter implies that they don’t, and we need to be made aware that they do. Ok I get it some people are racist and that but for those that are not, to be told this is frustrating, perplexing and even saddening, I can’t put my finger on it but it smacks of some sort of manipulation. I wonder where your donation really goes when you donate to BLM.
I would now like the sports personalities to take the knee for the NHS, the victims of covid, the emergency services, the soldiers that never returned and the cyclists that didn’t make it through the red lights.

I can understand why people in the UK have a problem with BLM. BLM is a US-centric thing. While racism does exist in the UK, it doesn't even bear comparison to the US, where black lives often really don't matter. It's evidenced in every facet of most African American lives. Their history is strewn with bodies and socio-economic disadvantage. The body count may have decreased today, but Jim Crow is still alive and well in many parts of the country. For the majority of them, equality is a prize that still remains far out of reach.

In the UK it took off as a means of showing support for BLM in the wake of George Floyd's death. I guess it's snowballed since then. I do question whether racism in the UK warrants the often disproportionate response from BLM.

[joan ofarc]

The Premier League has had its own anti-racism schemes for a number of years now, “Kick it Out” and “No Room for Racism”.

The taking the knee, was started as far as I’m aware, following the killing of George Flloyd in America in the name of BLM.

BLM is a questionable group with aspersions to become a political party, those not familiar with with their views should read their web page.

While I fully support the anti-racism schemes I think the Premier league and Sky TV should distance themselves from the BLM movement and concentrate on promoting the No Room for Racism program.

Taking the knee began long before poor George Floyd. Colin Kapernik started a passive protest during the singing of the US national anthem at games as he said it did not represent the land of the free for all. At first he stayed sitting, then was persuaded that kneeling was a less offensive gesture. Apparently it triggered some people who really need to examine their motivations for objecting to such a relatively simple act. He has paid a heavy price for such audacity.

After Floyd's murder live on TV BLM became a handy slogan as a vehicle for people's outrage. Apparently, the same people who objected to taking a knee found the words Black Lives Matter a step too far. Rather childishly they countered with All Lives Matter.
For me the slogan rather than the movement is what matters. I can't help feeling that the criticism of the movement is an attempt to belittle the sentiment. It's as if some people can't even allow that much for fear of whites being slain in their beds ( a typical far right reaction to anything that even mildly threatens their perceived superior position) If you can't even agree that black lives matter the same as white lives you are a racist.
I agree with Seivad that it doesn't have the same resonance in the UK but in terms of supporting racial equity it works for me.

[local]

It shows how far we have to go in our society when all lives matter is considered childish by some and then a rather ridiculous assertion that we fear being slaughtered in our beds.

We do have a long way to go to rout out the closet racists in our society.

Leaving the xenophobic white supremacist EU will be good for us.

[seivad]

We have been here before with token gestures and salutes,
the black-gloved salutes at international sporting tournaments in the 1960's?

When we all accept that all people matter not just because they have a sporting or media presence to trade on we might get somewhere.

The people using their celebrity status are so doing because they, unlike the ordinary Joe, can broadcast a message to a large number of people. It's an important message, and the younger generation are more likely to listen to them. Nothing and nobody will ever change the viewpoints of the majority of old leopards.

I agree with you that acceptance that all people's lives matter has to be the ultimate objective. I hate labels, and would love to see the day when we no longer label people according to colour/creed/nationality/sex etc. Until that day comes, I'm afraid that labelling those who are different than us and often treated unequally, is a necessary evil to bring attention to their plight.

Do you see this Utopia happening anytime soon? Or ever? I'm afraid that, like Napoleon the pig, we will always revert to our true nature.

[seivad]

It shows how far we have to go in our society when all lives matter is considered childish by some and then a rather ridiculous assertion that we fear being slaughtered in our beds.

We do have a long way to go to rout out the closet racists in our society.

Leaving the xenophobic white supremacist EU will be good for us.

I take it that you weren't born before you joined the EU? Or just a small child with no comprehension of the society you lived in? The racism in the UK was appalling. You've come a long way since those 'good old days'

[joan ofarc]

It shows how far we have to go in our society when all lives matter is considered childish by some and then a rather ridiculous assertion that we fear being slaughtered in our beds.

We do have a long way to go to rout out the closet racists in our society.

Leaving the xenophobic white supremacist EU will be good for us.

If all lives matter that must include black lives when clearly it doesn't. How come you can't even allow the singling out of black lives for attention? Can you not agree that black lives have never mattered as much as white lives in some times in history and in some places in the present day. Can you not even give them that much recognition? How very childish. Is giving equality to one group taking away yours?
Why are you so defensive about this subject? Do you think that acknowledging that some people are racist makes you one?
You obviously didn't notice that that I mentioned the typical over reaction of the far right to even the slightest raising up of black people. Check out their forums... you'll see I have been understating their fears.

[local]

If all lives matter that must include black lives when clearly it doesn't. How come you can't even allow the singling out of black lives for attention? Can you not agree that black lives have never mattered as much as white lives in some times in history and in some places in the present day. Can you not even give them that much recognition? How very childish. Is giving equality to one group taking away yours?
Why are you so defensive about this subject? Do you think that acknowledging that some people are racist makes you one?
You obviously didn't notice that that I mentioned the typical over reaction of the far right to even the slightest raising up of black people. Check out their forums... you'll see I have been understating their fears.

If I single out one group above another I miss the discrimination suffered by so many others.

When I am told I should consider a persons suffering by the colour of their skin I know I should be uncomfortable.

When I look back through recent history at the horrendous suffering and wrongful deaths in the world having black skin does not feature highly in the top ten.