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  1. #16
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    Delaying the 2nd dose of the vaccine will save lives under the current crisis of the new strain of the virus spreading rapidly.

    Saving lives?
    Protecting the nhs?

    Come on people this makes sense.

  2. Likes Hector liked this post




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  4. #17
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    Astra Zenica trialled the 3 month interval on a small sub group and came to the conclusion that, while not giving full protection after the first dose, it was sufficient to prevent serious infection requiring hospitalisation.

    This is the government's current strategy, to reduce pressure on the understaffed NHS not provide full immunity to the population.

  5. #18
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    Hmm a coterie of anti-government self-appointed armchair experts on virology or the government's chief medical officers?



    Yep you can't beat a bit of sofology.

  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    Hmm a coterie of anti-government self-appointed armchair experts on virology or the government's chief medical officers?



    Yep you can't beat a bit of sofology.
    Well fully-trained Pfizer/BioNTech scientists appear to have agreed with the "coterie of anti-government self-appointed armchair experts on virology" when they stated that: "There are no data to demonstrate that protection after the first dose is sustained after 21 days."
    [reported in The Guardian, and elsewhere 30th Dec]

  7. Likes donkey22, anna62 liked this post
  8. #20
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    The problem for our anti-government sofologists is that the Chief Scientific officer Chris Whitty and his counterparts from the devolved nations came up with this plan after looking at the data.

    The call is based on giving the maximum protection to the most people with what we have.

    Entirely laudable.

    In a letter co-signed by his counterparts in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, Prof Chris Whitty told medics that the “public will understand and thank us” for administering as many first doses as possible, rather than giving people a second jab within the recommended three or four weeks.



    So this;

    is clearly hogwash,


    They're making it up as they go along!
    Two new vaccines have been released, both require 2 doses 21 days apart now this Government has decided without any Scientific Data to back them up to stretch the gap to 90 days




    The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) has subsequently recommended that as many people on the JCVI priority list as possible should sequentially be offered a first vaccine dose as the initial priority. They have advised that the second dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine may be given between 3 to 12 weeks following the first dose, and that the second dose of the AstraZeneca (Oxford) vaccine may be given between 4 to 12 weeks following the first dose. The clinical risk priority order for deployment of the vaccines remains unchanged and applies to both vaccines. Both are very effective vaccines.

    The 4 UK Chief Medical Officers agree with the JCVI that at this stage of the pandemic prioritising the first doses of vaccine for as many people as possible on the priority list will protect the greatest number of at risk people overall in the shortest possible time and will have the greatest impact on reducing mortality, severe disease and hospitalisations and in protecting the NHS and equivalent health services. Operationally this will mean that second doses of both vaccines will be administered towards the end of the recommended vaccine dosing schedule of 12 weeks. This will maximise the number of people getting vaccine and therefore receiving protection in the next 12 weeks.

  9. #21
    Lamparilla Guest
    Whilst I accept that priority for vaccinations should logically be given to the most vulnerable (i.e. the over 85 age group and their carers) the irony is that these people have managed to protect themselves from catching the virus for 9 months now. This is largely because they have been physically isolated and their families have been prevented from visiting them. They and their carers have been compulsorily tested at least once a week for months now, symptoms or not.

    Even more ironic, though, is that the irresponsible people who are spreading the virus (for example those having parties, Premier League millionaire footballers, 'celebs' like Rita Ora etc etc) will be the last to be vaccinated, thus putting others at risk for the maximum amount of time. They don't seem to have any restrictions on their movements at all. Even if they get caught they just pay the fine and carry on socialising.

    I know that the government has no plans to make vaccinations compulsory, but there is an argument for this, given how a lot of people are totally disregarding the rules.

    The situation now is that many people in the younger age groups don't seem to take Covid seriously because they think it's only a problem for old people. I would guess that a 'hard core' of infected people will continue to spread the virus for many months to come.

  10. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamparilla View Post
    Whilst I accept that priority for vaccinations should logically be given to the most vulnerable (i.e. the over 85 age group and their carers) the irony is that these people have managed to protect themselves from catching the virus for 9 months now. This is largely because they have been physically isolated and their families have been prevented from visiting them. They and their carers have been compulsorily tested at least once a week for months now, symptoms or not.

    Even more ironic, though, is that the irresponsible people who are spreading the virus (for example those having parties, Premier League millionaire footballers, 'celebs' like Rita Ora etc etc) will be the last to be vaccinated, thus putting others at risk for the maximum amount of time. They don't seem to have any restrictions on their movements at all. Even if they get caught they just pay the fine and carry on socialising.

    I know that the government has no plans to make vaccinations compulsory, but there is an argument for this, given how a lot of people are totally disregarding the rules.

    The situation now is that many people in the younger age groups don't seem to take Covid seriously because they think it's only a problem for old people. I would guess that a 'hard core' of infected people will continue to spread the virus for many months to come.


    Can't help but agree but it's many age groups who think they are either invincible and don't care about anyone else or most likely both.

    Compulsory vaccination either by the front or back door ie you can't do diddly without it, even get health insurance or send your kids to school might be the way ahead.

    It would have the snowflakes and civil libertarians climbing the walls.

    Should you have the right to infect ?

  11. #23
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    These pharmaceutical laboratories have allegedly found vaccines for the Covid-19 virus within 12 months,but they still can't produce a vaccine for the common cold.......which has taken the pharmacists goodness knows how many years to find one ....Oh well...

  12. Likes jamyramy liked this post
  13. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveandLois View Post
    These pharmaceutical laboratories have allegedly found vaccines for the Covid-19 virus within 12 months,but they still can't produce a vaccine for the common cold.......which has taken the pharmacists goodness knows how many years to find one ....Oh well...
    The 'comnon cold ' kills nobody. The flu does. There are various vaccines for that depending on the variety of influenza. Often we agglomerate 'cold and flu'. So if you get a flu vaccine, that will immunise you against the 'common cold ' too. Provided, of course, you keep your woollies on when the temperature drops.
    Last edited by Hector; 01/01/2021 at 02:14 PM.

  14. Likes local, donkey22 liked this post
  15. #25
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    The 2nd dose test time was a scientific estimate when there was no other vaccine choice available to go.

    Now there is a 2nd choice and a 2nd strain of the virus contact spreading at a faster rate.

    On the plus side non of the anti's are blaming the Government only the 'science' they previously blamed the Government for 'ignoring'.

  16. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    The problem for our anti-government sofologists is that the Chief Scientific officer Chris Whitty and his counterparts from the devolved nations came up with this plan after looking at the data.

    The call is based on giving the maximum protection to the most people with what we have.

    Entirely laudable.

    In a letter co-signed by his counterparts in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, Prof Chris Whitty told medics that the “public will understand and thank us” for administering as many first doses as possible, rather than giving people a second jab within the recommended three or four weeks.



    So this;

    is clearly hogwash,


    They're making it up as they go along!
    Two new vaccines have been released, both require 2 doses 21 days apart now this Government has decided without any Scientific Data to back them up to stretch the gap to 90 days




    The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) has subsequently recommended that as many people on the JCVI priority list as possible should sequentially be offered a first vaccine dose as the initial priority. They have advised that the second dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine may be given between 3 to 12 weeks following the first dose, and that the second dose of the AstraZeneca (Oxford) vaccine may be given between 4 to 12 weeks following the first dose. The clinical risk priority order for deployment of the vaccines remains unchanged and applies to both vaccines. Both are very effective vaccines.

    The 4 UK Chief Medical Officers agree with the JCVI that at this stage of the pandemic prioritising the first doses of vaccine for as many people as possible on the priority list will protect the greatest number of at risk people overall in the shortest possible time and will have the greatest impact on reducing mortality, severe disease and hospitalisations and in protecting the NHS and equivalent health services. Operationally this will mean that second doses of both vaccines will be administered towards the end of the recommended vaccine dosing schedule of 12 weeks. This will maximise the number of people getting vaccine and therefore receiving protection in the next 12 weeks.
    While I generally believe that following the recommendations of scientists and medical officers is sound, in this case I think it could be reckless.

    Your Chief Scientific Officer and medical officers aren't listening to the definitive source of information on the vaccines based on the results of their trials. Pfizer has issued a warning that there's no data to demonstrate that protection after the first dose is sustained after a 21 day period.

    It's not a case of the great unqualified and unwashed denying scientific evidence. It's a case of asking where is the evidence to support that protection will continue beyond the recommended 21 day booster shot.

    In the case of the Pfizer vaccine, their trials and FDA studies showed that one dose resulted in 50% efficacy for 21 days. Can you provide an answer to the following question: When the vaccine manufacturer's extensive trials provided no such evidence, how did your scientific/medical officials manage to confirm the vaccine's protection lasted for 90 days? If so, I am sure that most of us would support the revised vaccination dosage. Unfortunately I don't think they have any data beyond the original data submitted by Pfizer for approval, in which case there's a very real danger that at some point beyond the recommended 21 days, people will be walking around with zero protection.

  17. Likes anna62 liked this post
  18. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveandLois View Post
    These pharmaceutical laboratories have allegedly found vaccines for the Covid-19 virus within 12 months,but they still can't produce a vaccine for the common cold.......which has taken the pharmacists goodness knows how many years to find one ....Oh well...


    Interesting choice of phrase "allegedly found vaccine",

    do you not believe they have ?

    People being vaccinated with what then ?

  19. Likes donkey22 liked this post
  20. #28
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    .

  21. #29
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    Now we know what is prompting it- they don't have the vaccines they promised.

    Tory ministers originally claimed Britain might have 30million doses of the Oxford/AstraZeneca jab ready to go by September 2020.

    That pledge was later downgraded to 4million doses by the end of 2020. In reality, just 530,000 doses were “available to the UK” as of December 30.

    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...ccine-19549504

  22. Likes jamyramy liked this post
  23. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alikado View Post
    Now we know what is prompting it- they don't have the vaccines they promised.

    Tory ministers originally claimed Britain might have 30million doses of the Oxford/AstraZeneca jab ready to go by September 2020.

    That pledge was later downgraded to 4million doses by the end of 2020. In reality, just 530,000 doses were “available to the UK” as of December 30.

    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...ccine-19549504
    No.
    The 530,000 are Pfizer. Oxford on the way. Be patient.

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