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  1. Tallboy says:26/01/2021 08:59 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by duncet View Post
    This obviously highlights the state of our "democracy" in 2021. And also raises the question - What is the point of being a councillor in Southport?
    Or even a Southport elected Councillor in Boothill controlled Sefton whilst surrounded by a small group of cyclo-facists and in full view of the majority of your electorate! Southport out of Sefton's democracy absent control!
    Where exactly are the similar cycling schemes in Boothill ? they wouldn't dare, that's where!!

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  4. Tallboy says:26/01/2021 09:02 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by The PNP View Post
    Moot point - as that is never going to happen.
    Show your true 'cyclo-facist' colours here aren't you!

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  6. Sap33 says:26/01/2021 09:39 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    Where exactly are the similar cycling schemes in Boothill ? they wouldn't dare, that's where!!
    You’ve obviously not been to Bootle recently as there’s several cycle lanes!

    Over 20 years ago it started with roads being closed with bollards to stop through traffic and there’s now a pop up cycle lane on Stanley Road.

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  8. The PNP says:26/01/2021 10:37 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by libraryguy View Post
    A) Show me your statistics for a sizeable number. What is needed is education about the use of the road.

    B) Anyone, young or old can go out and buy a bike. Even buy an old almost unroadworthy bike. The person can then ride it out on the road in traffic, not knowing the highway code, riding into oncoming traffic, on the pavement - anywhere. This causes danger to other road users, especially drivers, who if they hit the cyclist usually get the blame even if it was the cyclist's fault.
    A) I'd define a sizeable number as about 30% of journeys being regularly made by bike.....That is the type of figure you will find, if you look at other European States like NL and DK, where there is separate and safe cycle infrastructure. The terrain here is identical, i.e. virtually flat and ideal for bikes. So no physical reason why our cycle uptake shouldn't reach a similar level.

    Provide the same quality of infrastructure here, and more will undoubtedly use their bikes. Alternatively, simply ask people why they wouldn't use a bike. You'll find a significant percentage say it's because they wouldn't feel safe.

    If you don't want cycle-lanes, ensure every driver always leaves 1.5m minimum clearance when passing cyclists. And make sure every driver always looks twice before pulling out of junctions, driveways, opens car doors, etc.

    B) Yes, I do realise that. By the same token, any fool (with no license, or training) can walk into a 2nd hand car lot and take a £500 banger onto the road - no questions asked.
    Last edited by The PNP; 26/01/2021 at 10:52 PM.

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  10. libraryguy says:26/01/2021 10:48 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by The PNP View Post
    A) I'd define a sizeable number as about 30% of journeys being regularly made by bike.....That is the type of figure you will find, if you look at other European States like NL and DK, where there is separate and safe cycle infrastructure.

    Provide the same quality of infrastructure here, and more will undoubtedly use their bikes. Alternatively, simply ask people why they wouldn't use a bike. You'll find a significant percentage say it's because they wouldn't feel safe.

    B) Yes, I do realise that. By the same token, any fool (with no license, or training) can walk into a 2nd hand car lot and take a £500 banger onto the road - no questions asked.
    A) I asked about a sizeable number for Southport, NOT for other countries. We're not talking about Europe here. 30% of journeys by people who own a bike?

    In Southport, due to the way it is historically built, you cannot build a separate and safe cycle infrastructure without it being to the detriment of other road users. Force motor vehicles out of town and you kill business and the town dies. It's simple common sense!

    B) There are not many second-hand car lots that would sell a dodgy £500 banger. No self-respecting car sales business, even for cheap cars, would be allowed to sell a banger without completing paperwork. However, even if they did and someone bought one, they are likely to come a cropper from police ANPR vans and taken off the road and the driver prosecuted.

    Unlike a bike, which can be bought or sold anywhere (or stolen). They are untraceable and cause lots of trouble on the road by anyone who cares to ride one, including those who should know better in their cycling outfits and gear going through red lights and giving two fingers to the people who point out their wrongdoing!

    From Cycling UK publication in 2018 it reports that "Cycling made up only 1% of the mileage accumulated by all vehicular road traffic (cycles are vehicles). In comparison, cars and taxis accounted for 77%"

    So you want 77% of motor vehicle traffic to be re-routed to avoid roads for bikes and have cycle lanes created for just 1% of the public? While I am aware the statistics are over 2 years old, I suggest that even a 1% or 2% increase in cycling in recent months is not a valid argument for banishing 77% -74% of cars and taxis out of Southport.

    https://issuu.com/ctc_cyclists/docs/...tistics__web_-

    You are deluded, and so are the councillors who listen to you.

    Learn to ride on the road safely and follow the highway code. Don't put yourself in a situation where you are putting yourself in danger, i.e. too close to a lorry or van who can't see you in their mirror, don't cycle up the left side of the vehicle. It's your job to keep yourself safe, not to remove everyone else from the road because you can't cope.
    Last edited by libraryguy; 26/01/2021 at 11:09 PM.

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  12. donkey22 says:26/01/2021 11:11 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Tallboy View Post
    Where exactly are the similar cycling schemes in Boothill ? they wouldn't dare, that's where!!

    WRONG!!
    Here ye go, Bootle’s pop up cycle lanes-
    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...p-18820297.amp

  13. libraryguy says:26/01/2021 11:16 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by donkey22 View Post
    WRONG!!
    Here ye go, Bootle’s pop up cycle lanes-
    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...p-18820297.amp
    But from what I can gather from the report in the Echo, the cycle lanes are to get from one town to another NOT to banish motor vehicles from Liverpool City Centre, which is what they are doing in Southport. How many pop-up cycles lanes in Liverpool City Centre?

  14. The PNP says:26/01/2021 11:20 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by libraryguy View Post
    A) I asked about a sizeable number for Southport, NOT for other countries. We're not talking about Europe here. 30% of journeys buy people who own a bike?

    In Southport, due to the way it is historically built, you cannot build a separate and safe cycle infrastructure without it being to the detriment of other road users. Force motor vehicles out of town and you kill business and the town dies. It's simple common sense!

    B) There are not many second-hand car lots that would sell a dodgy £500 banger. No self-respecting car sales business, even for cheap cars, would be allowed to sell a banger without completing paperwork. However, even if they did and someone bought one, they are likely to come a cropper from police ANPR vans and taken off the road and the driver prosecuted.

    Unlike a bike, which can be bought or sold anywhere (or stolen). They are untraceable and cause lots of trouble on the road by anyone who cares to ride one, including those who should know better in their cycling outfits and gear going through red lights and giving two fingers to the people who point out their wrongdoing!
    A) You might be surprised just how many people own bikes, more often than not gathering dust at the back of the garage. Give them safe routes into town/to work/school etc, and we'll see how many turn out.

    When it comes to re-engineering infrastructure, you have to treat each road as an individual case. There may be enough space along a grass verge, or a generously wide pavement, sometimes the sides of a main carriageway can be taken, without impediment to traffic flow.

    B) I have always bought 2nd hand vehicles, as much better value. Sometimes privately, but usually from a dealer because they offer a guarantee of sorts. Never has a salesman asked if I had a license - or even if I had ins cover to drive it away!

    ANPR isn't as extensive, or as all-powerful as you seem to imagine. Provided a car has a valid MOT, tax and insurance, I don't see ANPR flagging it up tbh. Btw, it's not uncommon for an uninsured car to go for six months and not be spotted.....'Churchill' reckons there are over 1,000,000 uninsured drivers out there!

    Bikes can only cause trouble on the road, if they are used on the road....Riders on separate tarmac, no matter how badly they ride, are not interacting with motor traffic - only other riders.

  15. donkey22 says:27/01/2021 12:45 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by libraryguy View Post
    But from what I can gather from the report in the Echo, the cycle lanes are to get from one town to another NOT to banish motor vehicles from Liverpool City Centre, which is what they are doing in Southport. How many pop-up cycles lanes in Liverpool City Centre?
    Nope. All but 1 of the 7 designated cycle routes lead to Liverpool city centre.
    https://liverpool.gov.uk/parking-roa...p-cycle-lanes/

  16. Little Londoner says:27/01/2021 08:50 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by duncet View Post
    This obviously highlights the state of our "democracy" in 2021. And also raises the question - What is the point of being a councillor in Southport?
    Well the LibDem cycling correspondent is obviously happy with the Bootle Kremlin dictating things so long as an unused cycle lane is provided, his snivelling and badgering have provided the most underused things since Mother Theresa stopped ovulating.

  17. local says:27/01/2021 10:13 AM
    Maybe we should call them pixie lanes because only special people can see them being used.

  18. Billd says:27/01/2021 10:48 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by The PNP View Post
    'The people most affected' are the future users these lanes are specifically targeted at - cyclists.

    It makes no more sense to ask motorists and non-cyclists, what they think of a cycle-superhighway, than it would to ask cyclists about a new motorway!
    That would be all well and good if cyclists actually paid something towards roads etc as all other road users do.

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  20. sandGroundZero says:27/01/2021 10:53 AM
    Originally Posted by duncet
    This obviously highlights the state of our "democracy" in 2021. And also raises the question - What is the point of being a councillor in Southport?
    Tallboy says:26/01/2021 08:59 PM
    Or even a Southport elected Councillor in Boothill controlled Sefton whilst surrounded by a small group of cyclo-facists and in full view of the majority of your electorate! Southport out of Sefton's democracy absent control!
    Where exactly are the similar cycling schemes in Boothill ? they wouldn't dare, that's where!!
    The evidence of this thread (& numerous others on the same topic) does, indeed, point to the inadequacy of English democratic institutions.
    Not only are residents irate about the Emergency Active Travel Fund; the Councillors (outs, not ins) are using the policy to bash their opponents (pointing to an upcoming election).

    Active travel fund: final allocations¹
    Name Final allocation phase 1 (£) Final allocation phase 2 (£)
    Liverpool City Region CA 1,974,000 7,896,000
    The deficiencies should be clear to all. We have an unsatisfactory, if not dysfunctional system.

    What's missing is the proper identification of the nature of the problem!

    Notes:
    1. Department for Transport, Grant Shapps Minister

  21. Anon says:27/01/2021 11:38 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Billd View Post
    That would be all well and good if cyclists actually paid something towards roads etc as all other road users do.
    Cyclists should pay towards pavements, as that's what most of them use generally.

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  23. Sap33 says:27/01/2021 01:25 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Billd View Post
    That would be all well and good if cyclists actually paid something towards roads etc as all other road users do.
    Cyclists DO pay towards roads!

    Roads are paid for through general taxation. Every penny I earn and every penny I spend gets taxed. These taxes pay for the roads!

    What the uneducated think is 'car tax' is actually the vehicle excise licence, which relates to emissions, a lot of cars don't pay anything either!

    If you want to class VEL as 'road tax', I pay for 2 cars and a motorbike. As I can only use one thing at a time, when I'm out on my pushbike, I reckon it's pretty fair to say I have paid my fair share towards the roads!


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