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Originally Posted by Sap33
Cyclists DO pay towards roads!
Roads are paid for through general taxation. Every penny I earn and every penny I spend gets taxed. These taxes pay for the roads!
What the uneducated think is 'car tax' is actually the vehicle excise licence, which relates to emissions, a lot of cars don't pay anything either!
If you want to class VEL as 'road tax', I pay for 2 cars and a motorbike. As I can only use one thing at a time, when I'm out on my pushbike, I reckon it's pretty fair to say I have paid my fair share towards the roads!
It’s a bit of an exaggeration to say that every penny you earn and spend gets taxed.
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Originally Posted by justbecause
It’s a bit of an exaggeration to say that every penny you earn and spend gets taxed.
Ok, I'll give you the first £12.5 k I don't pay tax on, but I'll off set that against the 40% higher tax bracket I pay on £6k of my wages.
The point is though, despite what the motoring fraternity say, as a cyclist I pay my fair share for the roads!
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Originally Posted by The PNP
Fact is, a sizeable number of people would be prepared use a bike, if only their fear of injury/death in traffic was adequately addressed. It's the No.1 reason people give, when you ask, for avoiding bike use.
I like a good fact. Can you give us a link to the original source?
Thanks
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Originally Posted by Billd
That would be all well and good if cyclists actually paid something towards roads etc as all other road users do.
Staggering ignorance.
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Originally Posted by Sap33
Cyclists DO pay towards roads!
Roads are paid for through general taxation. Every penny I earn and every penny I spend gets taxed. These taxes pay for the roads!
What the uneducated think is 'car tax' is actually the vehicle excise licence, which relates to emissions, a lot of cars don't pay anything either!
If you want to class VEL as 'road tax', I pay for 2 cars and a motorbike. As I can only use one thing at a time, when I'm out on my pushbike, I reckon it's pretty fair to say I have paid my fair share towards the roads!
It's common misunderstanding cyclists pay absolutely nothing to use the roads.
This is very handy for children and non-tax-payers who can go out on their bikes with no training, no insurance, tax, or any safety check or equipment.
Same as walking.
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Originally Posted by local
It's common misunderstanding cyclists pay absolutely nothing to use the roads.
This is very handy for children and non-tax-payers who can go out on their bikes with no training, no insurance, tax, or any safety check or equipment.
Same as walking.
Well if you pay taxes, (Non tax payers will STILL pay taxes on things they buy, there's this thing called VAT!), you'll pay for the pavements that you walk on!
The big difference when it comes to training, (Something I do think everyone needs by the way) Is that in a car, you're responsible for over a ton of metal, capable of travelling at the sort of speeds that can and often does cause death and serious injury. There have been cases where pedestrians have died or been seriously injured when hit by cyclists, (From what I can find it's less than 25 deaths in 7 years and 700 accidents)
By lack of 'safety checks' and 'tax' By that I'm assuming an MOT (something cars don't need until they're 3 years old and stop needing after 40!) and as for the 'tax' bit, a lot of cars don't pay VEL either as, like cycles, they don't pollute.
Equipment? I wear a helmet and I think it should be compulsory, but at the moment it's not, so a bit of a non argument.
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So as a cyclist I don't pay anything to cycle why complicate it?
Cycling is great exercise and almost impact-free on the environment it just doesn't work so well on roads.
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28/01/2021 10:32 AM local says:
So as a cyclist I don't pay anything to cycle why complicate it? | Cycling is great exercise and almost impact-free on the environment it just doesn't work so well on roads.
For many, cycling is not a recreational pastime; it's our means of commuting, shopping & generally getting about. You cannot exclude us from the roads for the convenience of motorists!
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Originally Posted by local
So as a cyclist I don't pay anything to cycle why complicate it?
Cycling is great exercise and almost impact-free on the environment it just doesn't work so well on roads.
It works perfectly well on the roads, provided ALL road users follow the rules and look out for each other.
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Remember the cycle lane they installed on Fairway? I seem to think that cost £250,000? for what? Money well spent? Nice wide road like that with plenty of room for both cyclist and motorist and they do that.
As for the Houghton Street debacle what a joke i really do feel for the local businesses of this town...and no consultation...that stinks of corruption to me.
Southport is becoming (Sorry has become) a very sad picture in terms of retail and I'm not talking in relation to the lockdown etc.
Taking away parking spaces (Sorry pay and display spaces) to install cycle lanes are not good for Southport...another nail in the coffin!
I'm both a cyclist and a motorist. My personal experience of using cylcle lanes are not good often littered with glass etc etc and they actually slow you down. As a motorist without going into detail, cycle lanes (Not just in southport) can cause confusion and congestion.
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28/01/2021 12:44 PM ear01 says:
Remember the cycle lane they installed on Fairway? I seem to think that cost £250,000? for what? Money well spent? Nice wide road like that with plenty of room for both cyclist and motorist and they do that. | As for the Houghton Street debacle what a joke i really do feel for the local businesses of this town...and no consultation...that stinks of corruption to me.
Southport is becoming (Sorry has become) a very sad picture in terms of retail and I'm not talking in relation to the lockdown etc. | Taking away parking spaces (Sorry pay and display spaces) to install cycle lanes are not good for Southport...another nail in the coffin!
I'm both a cyclist and a motorist. My personal experience of using cylcle lanes are not good often littered with glass etc etc and they actually slow you down. As a motorist without going into detail, cycle lanes (Not just in southport) can cause confusion and congestion.
- Fairway features in development plans; it is specifically mentioned in the Southport Development Framework dated October 2016 as a potential location for a major visitor attraction development (p20, Southoprt Development Framework). In the meantime, the cycle path is a leg in cyclists' circumnavigation of the Marine Lake. Think of it as widening the roadway.
- The suggestion of "corruption" seems quite unwarranted; the explanation given is in keeping with what we know of central government's statute and regulations. Emergency Active Travel was deemed to be a matter of urgency.
- Southport's retail business are no more distressed than those of other towns and cities for reasons that are discussed regularly in the media. Business proprietors seem to be grasping at straws with their complaints.
- I can think of no village, town or city wherein parking is regarded as a free good. If you imagine that edge of town retail sheds' parking is free, remember the adage: "There is no such thing as a free lunch".
Footpaths & cycle lanes like other rights of way are generally poorly maintained. However the future of England's towns and cities demands a different approach For that reason Active Travel and assorted other initiatives are evolving. The imperative is to make urban living healthier and otherwise more congenial. The changes are underway. Be patient.
Last edited by sandGroundZero; 28/01/2021 at 05:00 PM.
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Originally Posted by sandGroundZero
28/01/2021 12:44 PM ear01 says:
- Fairway features in development plans; it is specifically mentioned in the Southport Development Framework dated October 2016 as a potential location for a major visitor attraction development (p20, Southoprt Development Framework). In the meantime, the cycle path is a leg in cyclists' circumnavigation of the Marine Lake. Think of it as widening the roadway.
- The suggestion of "corruption" seems quite unwarranted; the explanation given is in keeping with what we know of central government's statute and regulations. Emergency Active Travel was deemed to be a matter of urgency.
- Southport's retail business are no more distressed than those of other towns and cities for reasons that are discussed regularly in the media. Business proprietors seem to be grasping at straws with their complaints.
- I can think of no village, town or city wherein parking is regarded as a free good. If you imagine that edge of town retail sheds' parking is free, remember the adage: "There is no such thing as a free lunch".
Footpaths & cycle lanes like other rights of way are generally poorly maintained. However the future of England's towns and cities demands a different approach For that reason Active Travel and assorted other initiatives are evolving. The imperative is to make urban living healthier and otherwise more congenial. The changes are underway. Be patient.
1. AND that was back in 2016 and the seeds of decline were well and truly taking root then! To quote The Southport Development Framework 'Land in private ownership around the Marine Lake edgemay also provide scope for alternative visitor accommodation in the form of glamping orother similar use.
As the land being used for 'Glamping' well thats one way of putting it. But thats another story.
A cycle path circumnavigating Maring Lake? If that does come to fruition then...it a accident waiting to happen i.e a young child stepping out in front of a cyclist- who will be to blame then. Cycle paths and pedestrians 'Don't mix,' on the same piece of path/tarmac believe me i've seen it!
2. Yes i probably i did use to the word corupt a little too loosely. But not to consult local residents/buisness owners, I'll change that to total lack of respect or regard.
3. Yes no doubt they are but I'm talking about Southport. As for business proprietors grasping at straws? When you have major supermarket chains ie Tesco (And soon to be Sainsbury's taking root), outside of the town centre with free parking, thats one hell of a big straw! Just one of the many obstacles handed down by local government.
I just think we need to get back to basics before jumping ahead with elaborate frameworks or active this active that, because there isn't the full funding for this anyway. Repair the roads we've got, some of them are a danger pot holes etc.
Obviously we all have the interests of southport at heart. Stay safe.
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Originally Posted by Sap33
It works perfectly well on the roads, provided ALL road users follow the rules and look out for each other.
It clearly doesn't.
Putting a vulnerable unprotected cyclist in with tons of fast-moving metal has a hint of madness about it.
If you like I do wish to use your bike then take the risk and carry on, expecting everyone else to accommodate the least safe and slowest moving is a bit too selfish for me.
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[28/01/2021 07:50 PM] ear01, to pick-up on one (actually, three) of your (sub-)points:- "Yes no doubt they are but I'm talking about Southport" you are alluding I believe to: "Southport is becoming (Sorry has become) a very sad picture in terms of retail …"? In what sense does the retail decline you anticipate in Southport differ from other towns?
- As for business proprietors grasping at straws? — my "grasping at straws" referred specifically to proprietors' assertions regarding the loss of on-street parking to cycle lanes. More general issues about PARKING provision are another kettle of fish!
- When you have major supermarket chains ie Tesco (And soon to be Sainsbury's taking root), outside of the town centre with free parking, thats one hell of a big straw! Just one of the many obstacles handed down by local government.
The issue of parking more generally is fraught with complicating factors.
Historically, (especially urban) municipalities had scope to engage directly in the business functions which supplied their respective residents' services — utilities; transport; housing — which for a variety of reasons central governments progressively curtailed, along with any other potential revenue sources. To put it bluntly: central government has municipalities by the short and curlies. The centre has piled-on statutory duties and reduced municipalities' fiscal room for manoeuvre. It is regularly remarked in the red top print media that municipalities are gouging motorists with parking fees. It appears that that is precisely the way central government likes it. But, as my earlier post reminded you:
There is no such thing as a free lunch.
Parking motor vehicles imposes external costs on the whole community. That is, parking spaces are a valuable commodity. The problems are ALL one way and another the result of excessive centralization. Arguing the impact of parking fees on (notably, retail) businesses is misplaced not least because the solutions require large scale reforms concerning the respective roles of central versus municipal government.
So, Cllr. Pat Keith's quibble with Council Officers
is another distraction from the real problems
…and Councillors seem oblivious!
Cllr. Pat Keith
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Originally Posted by local
It clearly doesn't.
Putting a vulnerable unprotected cyclist in with tons of fast-moving metal has a hint of madness about it.
If you like I do wish to use your bike then take the risk and carry on, expecting everyone else to accommodate the least safe and slowest moving is a bit too selfish for me.
I don’t expect other road users to accommodate me, but I would expect that road users (and I include cyclists as well as motorists!) follow the rules, nothing selfish there!
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