Originally Posted by Tallboy

If there is demand it is in Boothill so build some of them down there!

They have, they’ve put a route in from the strand, down Stanley Rd, Commercial Rd and Vauxhall Rd into the city centre. It is one of seven which will eventually be rolled out across the city to create a 65 mile long network designed to get people using more sustainable forms of transport in response to the coronavirus pandemic. Fantastic news. Southport has a lot of catching up to do.

Originally Posted by The PNP

I'm 'floored' by your dismissal of one of the healthiest forms of exercise known to man......You'll never get more people, especially from the older generation, onto bikes - until you provide safe space for them. Unless of course, you don't want more bikes about, because you see cyclists as a nuisance?

You complete a**e, I am a regular cyclist, always have been! Your crackpot cycle schemes are not needed, never were, never will be!
You will never get pensioners of their couches because they choose not to.
Your hair-brained schemes solely suit your ambition to have a dedicated highway solely for your personal use to and from your place of work.
You do not represent cyclists, we regard you as the facist fringe that tarnishes cyclist by your crass views......

Originally Posted by donkey22

They have, they’ve put a route in from the strand, down Stanley Rd, Commercial Rd and Vauxhall Rd into the city centre. It is one of seven which will eventually be rolled out across the city to create a 65 mile long network designed to get people using more sustainable forms of transport in response to the coronavirus pandemic. Fantastic news. Southport has a lot of catching up to do.

And where are the usage statistics for these exactly or are these also buried in the depths of non-existent consultation?

Originally Posted by Tallboy

You complete a**e, I am a regular cyclist, always have been! Your crackpot cycle schemes are not needed, never were, never will be!
You will never get pensioners of their couches because they choose not to.
Your hair-brained schemes solely suit your ambition to have a dedicated highway solely for your personal use to and from your place of work.
You do not represent cyclists, we regard you as the facist fringe that tarnishes cyclist by your crass views......

In that case, there must e a whole lot of them in NL,DK, etc.....Since these more enlightened countries have complete networks of high quality cycleways!

Originally Posted by The PNP

In that case, there must e a whole lot of them in NL,DK, etc.....Since these more enlightened countries have complete networks of high quality cycleways!

You keep quoting other European countries, but they have the space to provide complete separate networks. Southport's roads are too narrow to accommodate separate cycle lanes. No matter how much you think cycling would be beneficial to an older age group there are too many elderly folk here who do not, will not, and cannot, entertain the idea of riding a bike, especially in winter, despite our more temperate climate.

Learn to ride on the road safely, use your judgement, don't position yourself on the road or place yourself in danger, that's when the roads will become safer. Why do cyclists have to ride up the left side of vehicles? That's the quickest way to get side-swiped. Driving on the left here means we pass other vehicles on the right!

Banning or pushing motor vehicles out of Southport will kill businesses. Is that what you want? Most probably, so you can realise your cycling utopia.

Even the cycling community think you're crackers!

Originally Posted by donkey22

They have, they’ve put a route in from the strand, down Stanley Rd, Commercial Rd and Vauxhall Rd into the city centre. It is one of seven which will eventually be rolled out across the city to create a 65 mile long network designed to get people using more sustainable forms of transport in response to the coronavirus pandemic. Fantastic news. Southport has a lot of catching up to do.

Compare the width of ALL those roads mentioned to Birkdale Village Talbot St Hoghton St Queens Rd and report back with your findings.

Sap33 might be able to help you with that.

'Learn to ride on the road safely, use your judgement, don't position yourself on the road or place yourself in danger, that's when the roads will become safer. Why do cyclists have to ride up the left side of vehicles? That's the quickest way to get side-swiped. Driving on the left here means we pass other vehicles on the right! '

Possibly the first sensible comments posted on this thread!

I agree, the roads are perfectly safe enough if a degree of commonsense is applied.

Incidentally, an oft stated gripe from cyclists is the non observance, by motorists, of the law/highway code/common courtesy.
Why then do many (if not most) cyclists believe they have some divine right to constant forward progression - this, no matter what the risk to themselves and others?

Originally Posted by libraryguy

A) You keep quoting other European countries, but they have the space to provide complete separate networks. Southport's roads are too narrow to accommodate separate cycle lanes.

B) No matter how much you think cycling would be beneficial to an older age group there are too many elderly folk here who do not, will not, and cannot, entertain the idea of riding a bike, especially in winter, despite our more temperate climate.

C) Learn to ride on the road safely, use your judgement, don't position yourself on the road or place yourself in danger, that's when the roads will become safer. Why do cyclists have to ride up the left side of vehicles? That's the quickest way to get side-swiped. Driving on the left here means we pass other vehicles on the right!

D) Banning or pushing motor vehicles out of Southport will kill businesses. Is that what you want? Most probably, so you can realise your cycling utopia.

E) Even the cycling community think you're crackers!

A) Countries like NL and DK are smaller than England and have a greater population density. Yet they have still been able to create really amazing cycle infrastructure. Including dedicated underpasses, overpasses, bridges, etc.

B) Age doesn't have to be a barrier to exercise. Provided a person remains able-bodied, there are many activities open to the retired, inc cycling. I know people who are in their 70's and still ride roadbikes/have better legs than me! Electric bikes are becoming more popular for those getting on in years.

C) I do ride on-road, and do it safely, as do many others. But that doesn't alter the fact that riders in England are being killed on-road every week of the year....Only way you'll stop the killing, is by separating the bikes from the motor traffic.

D) Nobody's banning cars from Southport, that's just silly scaremongering.

E) There are a small minority, mainly within the roadbike sector, who don't like cycle-paths/lanes. Same story in NL, where they have to ride on separate tarmac, amongst slower cycle traffic. Belgium is considered better for roadbikes than NL, as there they have free use of the roads.

Originally Posted by Little Londoner

Compare the width of ALL those roads mentioned to Birkdale Village Talbot St Hoghton St Queens Rd and report back with your findings.

Sap33 might be able to help you with that.

I don’t have any issues with them, you do. Why don’t you get off your lazy fat backside and get down there to measure them yourself.

Originally Posted by The PNP

A) Countries like NL and DK are smaller than England and have a greater population density. Yet they have still been able to create really amazing cycle infrastructure. Including dedicated underpasses, overpasses, bridges, etc.

B) Age doesn't have to be a barrier to exercise. Provided a person remains able-bodied, there are many activities open to the retired, inc cycling. I know people who are in their 70's and still ride roadbikes/have better legs than me! Electric bikes are becoming more popular for those getting on in years.

C) I do ride on-road, and do it safely, as do many others. But that doesn't alter the fact that riders in England are being killed on-road every week of the year....Only way you'll stop the killing, is by separating the bikes from the motor traffic.

D) Nobody's banning cars from Southport, that's just silly scaremongering.

E) There are a small minority, mainly within the roadbike sector, who don't like cycle-paths/lanes. Same story in NL, where they have to ride on separate tarmac, amongst slower cycle traffic. Belgium is considered better for roadbikes than NL, as there they have free use of the roads.

A) I am very willing to be corrected on this, but there may be something different about the NL and DK road structure and countryside. Britain has a long history and the road structure over time has evolved for motor vehicles. However, the problem cannot be solved exclusively by building separate cycleways where land, pathways and buildings would need to be moved or demolished. The motor vehicle is not going to go away, though I do agree with cleaner forms of propulsion.

B) I agree with you - age should be a barrier and I applaud those older able-bodied people who can take good exercise. However, I believe there is a vast majority who cannot do that. I'm in my late 50s and I would like to go for a bike ride, but if I did I would be ill as mu blood sugar would plummet. I need my car. Sorry!

C) Deaths on the roads need to be reduced by education. If you're operating a vehicle on the road people need to be taught how to use the roads safely. I know we've discussed this before, but if you're a responsible citizen you have to take and pass a theory and practical test to drive a car on the road. What does a cyclist have to do to get n the road? By a bike (and hopefully a helmet) and off they go.

D) I'm sorry to say it, but the words you use and your ideology gives the impression you want to ban cars. If I want to go to Chapel Street, how do you propose I do it by car? I know I can do it by train, but I want to know your thoughts doing it exclusively by car. I would want to walk the least distance possible and I'm prepared to pay a modest amount to park. Your thoughts?

Originally Posted by libraryguy

A) I am very willing to be corrected on this, but there may be something different about the NL and DK road structure and countryside. Britain has a long history and the road structure over time has evolved for motor vehicles. However, the problem cannot be solved exclusively by building separate cycleways where land, pathways and buildings would need to be moved or demolished. The motor vehicle is not going to go away, though I do agree with cleaner forms of propulsion.

B) I agree with you - age should be a barrier and I applaud those older able-bodied people who can take good exercise. However, I believe there is a vast majority who cannot do that. I'm in my late 50s and I would like to go for a bike ride, but if I did I would be ill as mu blood sugar would plummet. I need my car. Sorry!

C) Deaths on the roads need to be reduced by education. If you're operating a vehicle on the road people need to be taught how to use the roads safely. I know we've discussed this before, but if you're a responsible citizen you have to take and pass a theory and practical test to drive a car on the road. What does a cyclist have to do to get n the road? By a bike (and hopefully a helmet) and off they go.

D) I'm sorry to say it, but the words you use and your ideology gives the impression you want to ban cars. If I want to go to Chapel Street, how do you propose I do it by car? I know I can do it by train, but I want to know your thoughts doing it exclusively by car. I would want to walk the least distance possible and I'm prepared to pay a modest amount to park. Your thoughts?

A) The landscape in NL and DK is almost identical to that around Sefton and W Lancs, i.e. flat as a pancake. It's ideal cycling terrain with few hills. No difference in roadwidth either, that I've ever noticed. Old towns like Amsterdam have narrow streets, yet still see massive bike usage....Where there's a will there's always a way.

B) Even in NL and DK, there are people who don't use a bike. I realise and accept that it's not a practical proposition for everyone. But it is the most efficient form of transport known to man, and open to the majority of people if they so choose.

C) When it comes to cyclist casualties, you seem to be implying that cyclists bring it on themselves. While I'm sure some do, most do not. The figures show that the majority of riders knocked off, were not to blame for their accident. Despite all drivers having studied for and passed the driving test, they are still killing riders every week of the year.

There's only so much you can do with education. Beyond that, it comes down to engineering solutions, i.e. physically separating the vulnerable road user from the motor traffic. That's what the Dutch have been busy doing since the 1970's and now have an impressive safety record for cycling accidents, despite having a great number of riders.

Originally Posted by libraryguy

Learn to ride on the road safely, use your judgement, don't position yourself on the road or place yourself in danger, that's when the roads will become safer. Why do cyclists have to ride up the left side of vehicles? That's the quickest way to get side-swiped. Driving on the left here means we pass other vehicles on the right!!

ALL road users need to be aware of each other and abide by the rules!

As for passing on the left, if it’s passing through stationary or slow moving traffic, passing on the left is filtering and is perfectly legal to do. HOWEVER, it needs to be done with careful consideration, don’t do it to trucks or buses etc with restricted vision at the same time motorists need to be aware of the potential for bikes to be there, afford them the room and check blind spots as drivers also have the responsibility to check the area the intend to move into is clear.

Originally Posted by Little Londoner

Compare the width of ALL those roads mentioned to Birkdale Village Talbot St Hoghton St Queens Rd and report back with your findings.

Sap33 might be able to help you with that.

I’ve given my opinions on here in the past. I think there’s no need for the cycle scheme on Hoghton Street, but I think that restricting access as has been done in Queens Road is a good idea.
Double yellows along Albert Road to get rid of the bottlenecks caused by the parking and it’ll mean freer traffic flow in and out of town.
Motorists on Albert Road and as slower moving cyclists are on Queens Road, it’ll help with traffic flow and keep both parties apart.

While the routes in and out of South Sefton and Liverpool are wider, making things in theory easier, there’s considerably more traffic.

The roads you mention, Birkdsle Village, Talbot Street etc, were laid out before cars were common on the roads and were never designed for the amount of traffic, so it could be argued that as these roads are at over capacity and need some sort of restrictions.
(I personally wouldn’t restrict Birkdale Village as it’s actually an A Road, I’d try, where possible, to restrict the side roads, to try and keep things separate so slower road users are away from cars etc, to help to keep traffic flowing.)

Originally Posted by libraryguy

A) I am very willing to be corrected on this, but there may be something different about the NL and DK road structure and countryside. Britain has a long history and the road structure over time has evolved for motor vehicles.

It may come as a surprise to you that NL and DK have long histories too and have had motor vehicles for the same length of time as the UK.

Originally Posted by donkey22

I don’t have any issues with them, you do. Why don’t you get off your lazy fat backside and get down there to measure them yourself.

You made a statement and I pointed out a FACT which you think is irrelevant I have travelled down those roads many many times and I can assure you my statement is true.
Whether or not I have a fat backside is of no importance as I have more important things to worry about than your insults. You OBVIOUSLY, like your leader, do not read peoples replies otherwise you would know I have done a lot more cycling than a lot of you anti car zealots.
I am in no way against cyclists per se I am against IDIOTS riding bikes wherever they like and disregarding the Road Traffic Laws unfortunately in the majority.
Providing cycle lanes that impinge the cross town flow of traffic to accommodate a FEW responsible cyclists is a ridiculous way of making certain roads akin to the M6 because of no go areas for cars on other roads.
When Southport County Borough Police were absorbed by Lancashire County Police in the 60's Southport was awash with Traffic Patrol cars and motor cycles and regular Radar speed checks, thanks to May and her backers there isn't the ability to have such Policing now and the idiots know it, the Police are now so devoid of personnel that a deterrent presence on the roads is now a reactive presence to Emergency calls.