Cars parking on pavements

[The PNP]

You can buy small cars but the size is mainly about meeting EU safety standards with crumple zones.

You can, but the auto industry doesn't like you to - it wants people to buy bigger and bigger...Take the Mini, it's ballooned in size over the years.

Two-seater versions of a car are rare and hardly ever 'pushed' on the car-buying public. Just look how many 1-person households have been sold four/5-seater cars.

[Alikado]

The Echo has asked readers to nominate the the worst roads for pavement parking.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...voted-20540175

[rocknroll2000]

The Charity shop on the corner of Shakespeare Street is a nightmare to walk past sometimes, vehicles parked completely on the pavement so you have to walk on the road to pass them, not good when your walking dogs.

[The PNP]

The Charity shop on the corner of Shakespeare Street is a nightmare to walk past sometimes, vehicles parked completely on the pavement so you have to walk on the road to pass them, not good when your walking dogs.

A number of those properties along by the Lib-Dem office, own a few metres of land in front....Suspect it will originally have been their front gardens, but was surfaced when the properties became shops. Which is why, provided cars are parked close enough to the wall, traffic wardens don't issue them tickets.

[Hamble]

You can, but the auto industry doesn't like you to - it wants people to buy bigger and bigger...Take the Mini, it's ballooned in size over the years.

Two-seater versions of a car are rare and hardly ever 'pushed' on the car-buying public. Just look how many 1-person households have been sold four/5-seater cars.

'Mini' is a brand name not a command.

[The PNP]

'Mini' is a brand name not a command.

True. The new Mini is probably not far off the external dimensions of the old Maxi.

[MICK/GILLY]

A number of those properties along by the Lib-Dem office, own a few metres of land in front....Suspect it will originally have been their front gardens, but was surfaced when the properties became shops. Which is why, provided cars are parked close enough to the wall, traffic wardens don't issue them tickets.

Are there double yellow lines on the road there?, and have the parked cars got allocated parking usually defined by an area marked out at a cost to the business or party ?.

[MICK/GILLY]

Ok I have just looked on google maps and the only off road designated parking down Shakespear St is for Lattimers and brookfields, ( there are 2 old shops, look like flats now with old bays ) you can’t park on that corner at all, the yellow lines mean you can’t park on the pavement, up to or near the wall and the yellow bars indicate this also applies to disabled badge holders so no you can’t park on the pavement there or anywhere along Shakespeare st other than lattimers and Brookfield’s that have likely to have paid to have bays drawn out.

Now this is different from the spar in Birkdale village, there are no bars on the double yellow lines but the lines mean you can’t park on the road, the corner or on the pavement up to the wall, UNLESS you have a disabled badge then you CAN park up to the wall ( there’s no bars on the lines ) but not on the corner ( obviously you can’t park on corners anyway ).
I learned this from an over zealous warden I had a bit of fun with one day. I parked up very close to the wall at the spar in the village , he came running over shouting “ hey you can’t park there those lines mean you can’t park up to the wall!”, I looked at him and said “yea I should have guessed that” but in a low doubting voice that suggested he was too nice to give me a ticket I said “ noooo you wouldn’t give me a ticket would you? I am just going across the road to the butchers to get some sausages I won’t take a min and I simply can’t believe that you would give me a ticket nooo not you,” he was adamant that if I didn’t move he would give me a ticket. Again I said in a disbelieving voice “ nooo am certain that won’t happen I’ll only be a min and started my way across the road and sure enough out came his book and he went to the front of my van that was squeezed up tight against the spar window, he looked in and saw a disabled badge and said “ha you got me there didn’t you” and I said yea you didn’t get me tho did you and I did say you wouldn’t give me a ticket didn’t I.

[The PNP]

A) Are there double yellow lines on the road there?,

B) and have the parked cars got allocated parking usually defined by an area marked out at a cost to the business or party ?.

A) There are yellow lines, but can't remember if they are single (daytimes only) or double (24hrs).

B) That may be the official line and there are a few examples of marked-out bays. These take the form of car-sized rectangles bordered by a white line. However, I understand our Parking Attendants (traffic wardens) are aware which pieces of land are privately owned (on a properties deeds) and leave cars parked on them alone.

I know of a number of locations right in town, where a car can be parked for free all day long without being ticketed.....However, can't reveal them mate or I'd lose my parking space!

[MICK/GILLY]

A. They are double 24 hours with bars.

B. Again there are only 2 places on the pavement on that side of Shakespeare st with white bays that have most likely been approved by the council and CHARGED FOR covering admin and painting. Traffic wardens operate on the law and road markings and are generally ruthless, not what they assume was someone’s garden and won’t have intricate knowledge of property lines as the council wouldn’t be able to tarmac a pavement over your front garden that’s now clearly pavement and that the double yellow no parking lines mean you can’t park on the road or on the pavement up to the wall, you can’t have property deeds to the pavement can you, but you may be allowed customer parking ( or may not ) and it’s just taken by the wardens it may be ok to park there as they may be unsure of the actual rules or just let it go, I suspect you must ask the council to designate it as private parking for your business and show good reason why they should favour your application like Brookfield’s and lattimers will have had to have shown in their application for what amounts to planning permission or approved street markings or something like that.
Good luck with your secret free parking

[The PNP]

A) Traffic wardens operate on the law and road markings and are generally ruthless, not what they assume was someone’s garden and won’t have intricate knowledge of property lines as the council wouldn’t be able to tarmac a pavement over your front garden that’s now clearly pavement and that the double yellow no parking lines mean you can’t park on the road or on the pavement up to the wall, you can’t have property deeds to the pavement can you
.
B) Good luck with your secret free parking

A) My understanding, is that Parking Services have a complete knowledge of all the privately owned paved areas around town. Most of these came about back in the day, when a number of houses were converted into shops as the town expanded. Shop owners who did this, demolished their garden walls and paved right up to their shop-fronts.

There are still examples houses on shopping streets in town, that were never converted. E.g. on Shakespeare St opp the Lib-Dem office, there's a shop with a paved area and canopy, next door to a house with a front garden sticking out. Another example is on London St just past the Temperance Institute.

When parking on private paved land, it's crucial to ensure all four wheels are clear of the line of the original pavement, or a ticket will be forthcoming. Which is why you'll see owners/tenants cars parked tight up against their shopfronts and/or under the canopies in several locations.

B) They've worked for me so far. Most prized, is an on-street space where due to a marking-out anomaly, they always leave you alone. I found it years ago when on the bike. Noticing a Parking Attendant on a pay-and-display street, walk right past a parked car as if it wasn't there. I stopped him and asked why he hadn't ticketed the car in that space? He said 'it's not pay and display' and walked off!

[MICK/GILLY]

I think land will either be private ( with a wall around it ) or pavement ( council owned ) I can’t imagine it being both, maybe I am wrong who knows, maybe I should have saved the expense of re flagging my driveway by knocking my wall down and having the council pave my front garden .
Private paved land is a new one on me. You are responsible for water and sewage pipes on your own property so if there’s a burst or a fault on so called private paved land how would you go on about fixing it?, would you have to privately dig up the council pavement?. Digging up public walkways, pavement or roadworks requires permission and you have to give notice in the local newspaper, no I can’t believe that. It could be that when / if properties were turned from residential into business properties walls were removed in with the change if they were ever there as much of Shakespeare st has always been shops and factories and likely workers lived close, all the houses down shakespear st have walls, I can’t remember daves second hand shop, Stanley’s, Brookfield’s or lattimers factory ever having a front garden.
On the new broom rd towards Liverpool there’s a great long new brick wall that looks out of place it looks like it’s there for no reason and have often thought that maybe it was put there to define private land maybe due to some old legislation that requires a boundary to be defined with a BRICK wall or something like that, like I say I don’t know I am not a property expert but the application for parking warden can’t be that complicated looking at them and I find it hard to believe they have to qualify as surveyors or have intricate knowledge of town planning as lines are lines and pavement is council paved, planning permission is pretty black or white it’s either pavement ( paved ) or it’s not .
Maybe someone knows for real it would be mildly interesting to find out .

[The PNP]

the application for parking warden can’t be that complicated looking at them and I find it hard to believe they have to qualify as surveyors or have intricate knowledge of town planning as lines are lines and pavement is council paved, planning permission is pretty black or white it’s either pavement ( paved ) or it’s not .
Maybe someone knows for real it would be mildly interesting to find out .

The list of privately-owned paved locations will be relatively short and easy enough to remember. All new new Parking Attendants are told by Parking Services where they can and can't issue tickets...Because issuing tickets to cars on privately owned land is pointless. It will simply result in the owner challenging the ticket and having the fine quashed.

Some paved/tarmacked front gardens are very obviously private land, because they've left a front wall or hedge in place. E.g. the Champions old office on Lord St between Hill St and Union St.....If they ever decided to open their frontage right up, by removing the wall/hedge, their private land wouldn't somehow become Council land.

Take a look down King St, between Market St and Portland St. The row of houses with small front gardens, has a shop with paved land slotted into it. Provided the owner parked his car fully on his bit of frontage, he'd be immune from a ticket. Also on King St, I believe the land beneath the canopies and outside the newsagents shop (other side of street) is also privately owned....Because you sometimes see a car or two squeezed under the canopied area - and these cars never get ticketed.

There's more private paved land elsewhere, e.g. the small recessed area behind the Little Theater. Several examples of ticket-free paved parking areas on Hoghton St, inc the print shop corner and the other businesses on same side, going towards London St. Even more on Bold St between Lord St and Bath St, where a flat-dweller regularly parks on the front paved area and never gets ticketed....Unless he gets careless and leaves it with a wheel or two on the Council-owned part of the pavement.

[MICK/GILLY]

I think private land with a brick wall around it is private property and if it’s a business it will have a sign somewhere saying they not responsible for loss or damage , I don’t think the council would pave over private property with a public walkway, king st shops probably have customer parking, further up king st many guest houses have removed their walls for access but they have had to pave up to there front doors themselves , I am still not buying it I think it’s black and white it’s either council pavement or it’s not, the council would have been onto this regarding accident claims burst pipes and other issues.

So for a pipe burst on this supposed council paved private land who is responsible for the repair?, the supposed pavement owner as you are responsible for repairs to the edge of your property or the council as it’s a council pavement public walkway?, or if someone falls due to uneven or ill kept surfaces who pays out then the supposed pavement owners or the council?. No there are too many holes in it I reckon it’s more black and white than that as some issues like these sound a bit too grey for me, maybe the shops with canopies can park under or within the distance of the canopy but I suspect if the council have paved it and it’s the pavement and people are walking on it as the pavement then it’s the pavement.

[The PNP]

So for a pipe burst on this supposed council paved private land who is responsible for the repair?, the supposed pavement owner as you are responsible for repairs to the edge of your property or the council as it’s a council pavement public walkway?, or if someone falls due to uneven or ill kept surfaces who pays out then the supposed pavement owners or the council?. No there are too many holes in it I reckon it’s more black and white than that as some issues like these sound a bit too grey for me, maybe the shops with canopies can park under or within the distance of the canopy but I suspect if the council have paved it and it’s the pavement and people are walking on it as the pavement then it’s the pavement.

The print shop corner on Hoghton St is on of the best examples of what I'm saying. Park on their part of the paved area (with their permission) and you're immune from a ticket. Let any part of your car overlap onto the outer paved area and you'll get done.

Who paid for/maintains the flags on print shop land I don't know, or what the score is with water pipes, etc. I'm sure they could fence off their portion of the corner any time they wanted to, but prefer to leave it open for their staff and customers to park on.