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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly Trott View Post
    Does anyone think that the antisemitic convoy had anything to do with supporting the Palestinian people in their struggle against oppression?
    Absolutely not. A bunch of far right opportunists jumping on the bandwagon to spout their foul anti-Semitic bile. I cringed when I heard their message, noting their call to rape the daughters of Jewish people. Why is it that some groups advocate raping the enemy's women and female children? Using sexual violence against women as a weapon of war is a continuing thread throughout humanity. It sickens me.

    We see this far too often during protests. And all too often, as witnessed in this case, it results in a tendency for people to tar all of the protesters with the same brush. Apart from these 4 men, the people were there to demonstrate their support of the Palestinian people, not to brutalise Jewish families, or to support Hamas. We shouldn't let their message get lost.





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  3. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by seivad View Post
    Absolutely not. A bunch of far right opportunists jumping on the bandwagon to spout their foul anti-Semitic bile. I cringed when I heard their message, noting their call to rape the daughters of Jewish people. Why is it that some groups advocate raping the enemy's women and female children? Using sexual violence against women as a weapon of war is a continuing thread throughout humanity. It sickens me.

    We see this far too often during protests. And all too often, as witnessed in this case, it results in a tendency for people to tar all of the protesters with the same brush. Apart from these 4 men, the people were there to demonstrate their support of the Palestinian people, not to brutalise Jewish families, or to support Hamas. We shouldn't let their message get lost.
    It has been going on since the year dot, the Vikings were rather fond of 'Rape & Pillage', it was always a tactic going back to Prehistoric Times when attacking the neighbouring village.

  4. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by seivad View Post
    Absolutely not. A bunch of far right opportunists jumping on the bandwagon to spout their foul anti-Semitic bile. I cringed when I heard their message, noting their call to rape the daughters of Jewish people. Why is it that some groups advocate raping the enemy's women and female children? Using sexual violence against women as a weapon of war is a continuing thread throughout humanity. It sickens me.

    We see this far too often during protests. And all too often, as witnessed in this case, it results in a tendency for people to tar all of the protesters with the same brush. Apart from these 4 men, the people were there to demonstrate their support of the Palestinian people, not to brutalise Jewish families, or to support Hamas. We shouldn't let their message get lost.

    Why should anyone from other countries take sides? It is none of their business and I will guarantee that the majority of people just do not have a clue about the people living there.

    My personal belief is, that the Jewish people have more rights than the Palestinians in Israel for many reasons. Prior to becoming Israel the area was known as Canaan, 4000 BC. with the twelve tribes of Jacob, and the semetic language used became Hebrew around 1400 BC. Palestinians falsely claim they are descendants of the Cannanites, when in fact, they are descendants of the people of that which is known now as Iraq.

    The Muslims in Israel refused to take part in the 1947 talks which involved the country so cannot claim the land by default.

    The Palestinians waged war on Israelite Jewish people numerous times and lost, then complained because they lost land when the Jewish Israelites won it over. The Muslims have several countries in the World, where they have a majority, the Jewish have Israel.

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  6. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    Why should anyone from other countries take sides? It is none of their business and I will guarantee that the majority of people just do not have a clue about the people living there.

    My personal belief is, that the Jewish people have more rights than the Palestinians in Israel for many reasons. Prior to becoming Israel the area was known as Canaan, 4000 BC. with the twelve tribes of Jacob, and the semetic language used became Hebrew around 1400 BC. Palestinians falsely claim they are descendants of the Cannanites, when in fact, they are descendants of the people of that which is known now as Iraq.

    The Muslims in Israel refused to take part in the 1947 talks which involved the country so cannot claim the land by default.

    The Palestinians waged war on Israelite Jewish people numerous times and lost, then complained because they lost land when the Jewish Israelites won it over. The Muslims have several countries in the World, where they have a majority, the Jewish have Israel.
    The whole lot is a complete mess of factions, sects and tribes, the only thing that is certain is the involvement of 'The West' has been a complete disaster for all involved and the longer it goes on the bigger and more widespread the mess becomes.

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  8. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    Why should anyone from other countries take sides? It is none of their business......
    Immediately goes on to take sides with the state of Israel.

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  10. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    Why should anyone from other countries take sides? It is none of their business and I will guarantee that the majority of people just do not have a clue about the people living there.
    I consider myself impartial and don't belong to either religion, Jewish or Arabic......But when dozens and dozens of young children are being slaughtered wholesale by 'precision bombing', in the name of preventing rockets being set off, something is going seriously wrong!
    On Yer Bike!

    www.20splentyforus.co.uk

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  12. #142
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    Arrow "The things that you liable to read in the Bible / It ain't necessarily so …"

    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    Why should anyone from other countries take sides? It is none of their business and I will guarantee that the majority of people just do not have a clue about the people living there.
    My personal belief is, that the Jewish people have more rights than the Palestinians in Israel for many reasons.

    Notwithstanding the above post, said takes a side, as follows:
    …Prior to becoming Israel the area was known as Canaan, 4000 BC. with the twelve tribes of Jacob, and the semetic language used became Hebrew around 1400 BC. Palestinians falsely claim they are descendants of the Cannanites, when in fact, they are descendants of the people of that which is known now as Iraq.
    …said, your potted ancient history of the region is TOSH!

    __________________________________________________________________


    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    The Muslims in Israel refused to take part in the 1947 talks which involved the country so cannot claim the land by default.
    The Palestinians waged war on Israelite Jewish people numerous times and lost, then complained because they lost land when the Jewish Israelites won it over. The Muslims have several countries in the World, where they have a majority, the Jewish have Israel.
    Palestinians have been progressively excluded from their immemorial homeland. One account¹ (stridently rejected by Zionist nationalists, it must be noted) is that there never was an expulsion of the bulk of the population of Israel after the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE. The Romans were not noted for deportation of (even restive) religious minorities en masse. The population of Palestine arguably converted from Judaism to Islam (much later, of course) out of some combination of expediency and threat. In this account, the Jewish diaspora owes much to successful proselytizing, not exile.

    The Levant in the 19th and early in the 20th century had a convoluted history. The infiltration of Zionist settlers was met by the preexisting population with a mixture of acceptance and resentment. As was frequently the case, the British Empire was complicit. In the disintegrating Ottoman Empire imperial meddling in the region tended to disregard Palestinians' pleas to protect their interests.

    Note:

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  14. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkey22 View Post
    Immediately goes on to take sides with the state of Israel.
    Everybody likes to back a winner, evaluate the contenders - a nuclear power with high tech weapon systems against a 3rd world country with a ragbag 'military' using castoff weaponry from other states.

  15. #144
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    History of Jerusalem: Timeline for the History of Jerusalem
    (4500 BCE - Present)

    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...00-bce-present



    "Palestine and Palestinians NEVER existed. They are and always have been ARABS! Palestine was a British protectorate, a named region of land inhabited by Jews, Christians and Muslim Bedouin/Arab nomads; an administered province under British jurisdiction/authority. It was the British that controlled Jewish immigration and all others settling in the region between 1920-1948. Palestine NEVER existed as a state, culture or people.

    The Palestinian struggle was a tactical invention, the ‘BIG LIE’, deliberately created by the Muslim Arab League in the 50’s to counter the recognition of the newly reconstituted Jewish homeland of Israel in 1949. The Kingdom of Israel is the historical homeland; the state and culture of the Jewish people that existed since almost 1500 BCE from the time of King David! That’s over 3000 years compared to the Arabs and their fake Palestine that has ZERO history, never been a state, never a people or culture, but exists only as invented propaganda since its Arab conception in the 50’s!

    The Arab League wanted Israel and the Jews destroyed and was the catalyst that chartered the PLO into existence in 1963. Funded entirely by the Arab League... the PLO was to be the propaganda apparatus(a chartered covenant) fighting against a ‘non-existent’ Israel occupation. Complete with a media production studio, doctored and staged imagery and a news outlet that would push the lies of aggression by the state of Israel. PLO, Hamas & the Arab league have lied to the world.... pushing their propaganda of manufactured history, imagery & reality.

    And who holds up the words of the PLO, Hamas & the Arab league for the world to see what their TRUE intentions are. Within the PLO charter is a proclamation stating that...

    ... it’s sole purpose is to bring upon the destruction of Israel."

    Israel will prevail.
    Orwell said "If there is hope, it lies in the proles." Whilst champagne socialists see diversity idealised at university, the common folk experience it first hand in their neighbour hoods.

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  17. #145
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    "I have argued previously that Jews could not only survive, but thrive, in a country that replaces Jewish privilege with equality under the law. A wealth of comparative data suggests that political systems that give everyone a voice in government generally prove more stable and more peaceful for everyone. But for many Jews, no amount of comparative data can overcome the deep fear that, in a post-Holocaust world, only a state controlled by Jews can ensure Jewish survival. And, even in the best of circumstances, many Jews would find the transition from such a state to one that treated Jews and Palestinians equally to be profoundly jarring. It would require redistributing land, economic resources and political power, and perhaps just as painfully, reconsidering cherished myths about the Israeli and Zionist past. At this juncture in history, it is impossible to know how so fundamental a transition might occur, or if it ever will."

    Name:  PalestinianWoman…Sheikh Jarrah_exGuardian.png
Views: 0
Size:  224.4 KB
    A Palestinian woman holds a photo of her family in 1956 after they moved into their home
    in the Sheikh Jarrah neighbourhood of east Jerusalem. Photograph: Maya Alleruzzo/AP

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  19. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Styx View Post
    History of Jerusalem: Timeline for the History of Jerusalem
    (4500 BCE - Present)

    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...00-bce-present



    "Palestine and Palestinians NEVER existed. They are and always have been ARABS! Palestine was a British protectorate, a named region of land inhabited by Jews, Christians and Muslim Bedouin/Arab nomads; an administered province under British jurisdiction/authority. It was the British that controlled Jewish immigration and all others settling in the region between 1920-1948. Palestine NEVER existed as a state, culture or people.

    The Palestinian struggle was a tactical invention, the ‘BIG LIE’, deliberately created by the Muslim Arab League in the 50’s to counter the recognition of the newly reconstituted Jewish homeland of Israel in 1949. The Kingdom of Israel is the historical homeland; the state and culture of the Jewish people that existed since almost 1500 BCE from the time of King David! That’s over 3000 years compared to the Arabs and their fake Palestine that has ZERO history, never been a state, never a people or culture, but exists only as invented propaganda since its Arab conception in the 50’s!

    The Arab League wanted Israel and the Jews destroyed and was the catalyst that chartered the PLO into existence in 1963. Funded entirely by the Arab League... the PLO was to be the propaganda apparatus(a chartered covenant) fighting against a ‘non-existent’ Israel occupation. Complete with a media production studio, doctored and staged imagery and a news outlet that would push the lies of aggression by the state of Israel. PLO, Hamas & the Arab league have lied to the world.... pushing their propaganda of manufactured history, imagery & reality.

    And who holds up the words of the PLO, Hamas & the Arab league for the world to see what their TRUE intentions are. Within the PLO charter is a proclamation stating that...

    ... it’s sole purpose is to bring upon the destruction of Israel."

    Israel will prevail.
    I am confused, Styx.

    Your post begins with a link to the JVL (an encyclopedia) but then provides a provocative opinon piece replete with exclamations and shouting capitalisation which is not the work of the JVL.

    Do you not think that now, particularly now, it is essential to be calm and avoid confusion?

  20. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alikado View Post
    The whole lot is a complete mess of factions, sects and tribes, the only thing that is certain is the involvement of 'The West' has been a complete disaster for all involved and the longer it goes on the bigger and more widespread the mess becomes.

    I agree with you fully on that one. It is not just Israel v Palestine, you now have all he Islamic majority siding with the Palestinians, and on behalf of the States, you have Israel bombing Syria. We would have been far better just leaving them to deal with their own problems alone - both are capable of sorting these out among themselves. But as usual, the States are well involved supplying Israel with arms, in order to protect their wealthy investors and the Saudi's are furnishing the Palestinians with arms.

    The Palestinians want the whole of Israel but Israel is the only democratic country in the Middle East. Do they want the Israelites to leave the country? Where would they go? If Israel gained full occupation of Israel - the Palestinians have many countries in which they could settle among their own people. One thing is for sure - Muslims will never get along with the Jewish people because in every Islamic dominated country, people of other religions are persecuted.

    The Jewish people from all over Europe were repatriated in Israel. This was a planned and organised event after the last World War since Israel is in a very favourable strategic position to maintain observation on the Middle East. Israel is one of the only countries in which it's nuclear armament count is unknown because the USA will not allow any NATO interference in Israel. The USA pays $billions in overseas aid - more than a third of this is paid to Israel for the purpose of arms it is assumed.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...uclear-arsenal

    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20...c-positioning/

    https://www.datocms-assets.com/4857/1523064662-nick.pdf

  21. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandGroundZero View Post

    Notwithstanding the above post, said takes a side, as follows:
    …said, your potted ancient history of the region is TOSH!

    __________________________________________________________________




    Palestinians have been progressively excluded from their immemorial homeland. One account¹ (stridently rejected by Zionist nationalists, it must be noted) is that there never was an expulsion of the bulk of the population of Israel after the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE. The Romans were not noted for deportation of (even restive) religious minorities en masse. The population of Palestine arguably converted from Judaism to Islam (much later, of course) out of some combination of expediency and threat. In this account, the Jewish diaspora owes much to successful proselytizing, not exile.

    The Levant in the 19th and early in the 20th century had a convoluted history. The infiltration of Zionist settlers was met by the preexisting population with a mixture of acceptance and resentment. As was frequently the case, the British Empire was complicit. In the disintegrating Ottoman Empire imperial meddling in the region tended to disregard Palestinians' pleas to protect their interests.

    Note:
    I don't think it is wise at this point to construct arguments on the attention-seeking re-writing of Jewish history by Sand, whose father had a problem with being Jewish, and who himself has decided he doesn't want to be a Jew any more. Read about him here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...g-myself-a-jew

  22. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkey22 View Post
    Immediately goes on to take sides with the state of Israel.

    'My personal opinion'...in view of the facts in History. But there was a carefully planned operation by the West to repatriate Jewish people from all over Europe into Israel. Without this interference, the Jewish population of Israel would have been far less.

    The Israeli/Palestinian unrest has far wider implications than domestic problems. The Palestinians are supported by Islamic people Worldwide - this unrest has a potentially mirrored situation in all western countries albeit on a smaller scale, but it does exist. Islam with 1.9 Billion followers - is the fastest-growing major religion in the world.Wikipedia.

    "
    Mohsin Khan: He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islamic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah and in His Messenger Muhammed SAW) hate (it)." Quoran

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  24. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hector View Post
    I am confused, Styx.

    Your post begins with a link to the JVL (an encyclopedia) but then provides a provocative opinon piece replete with exclamations and shouting capitalisation which is not the work of the JVL.

    Do you not think that now, particularly now, it is essential to be calm and avoid confusion?
    The Link is to the history of Jerusalem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hector View Post
    At this point, given the disparity of the death-count, and because it is now unfairly being perceived as the aggressor, Israel should now just use its Iron Dome defence system and not try and target any more Hamas rocket-launching positions.

    That is the smart and effective and moral course of action now.
    So Israel should just sit there and let Hamas launch a few thousand rockets each day?

    Perhaps Hamas would like a time-out, a time to rest and regroup and rearm.

    The problem would be repeated ad infinitum.


    The cost of launching a missile from the Iron Dome at a threatening rocket has been reported to cost anywhere from $20,000 to $100,000. The rockets fired by terror groups at Israel are estimated to cost between a few hundred to a few thousand dollars.
    Orwell said "If there is hope, it lies in the proles." Whilst champagne socialists see diversity idealised at university, the common folk experience it first hand in their neighbour hoods.

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