Middle east crisis.

[The PNP]

Would you want to forget about the hostages , if it was someone from your close family in the hands of a terrorist organization such as Hamas?

War is a very ugly thing, Israel are dealing with a murderous terrorist organization..HAMAS
Until this terrorist gang Hamas, has been eradicated, Israel (and Gaza) will never have the chance of living in peace and safety.

The international community have been very negligent in allowing Hamas to keep the civilian community of Gaza in poverty.
It wasn’t a secret.

Not forgetting digging that elaborate tunnel system under nearly every building ( including hospitals. Schools and mosques) financed by money which was for the civilians of Gaza.

Building those tunnels with money donated by international countries. Pity that the donations were not checked as to what they were used for.
A water refinement system was one of the top priorities..that never happened..proper roads etc, the list goes on and on.

Hamas were offered deals to stop the war, by calling a ceasefire in exchange for the hostages ..
On a number of occasions this offer stayed on the table. Hamas refused.
The offer is still there.

Dealing with extreme radical Islamic terrorists, is like dealing with a cancerous tumour. If it’s not fully removed it will spread.
As many people have witnessed with cancer treatment , there are always hard side effects .

PNP I don’t know one person who is not sympathetic to the situation of the
civilian people of Gaza, and I really hope that a solution can be brought about asap. Both sides of this war are suffering.
.

You misunderstand......I'm saying Israel has placed destruction of Gaza, way above any release of the hostages. Yes, I know Netanyahu claimed at the start that they (the IDF) were going into Gaza to get the hostages back and to defeat Hamas.

But is that what they actually did? From what I've seen to date, it reads like a massive revenge attack on Gaza, its entire infrastructure and the Palestinian population there as a whole, regardless age or gender. Even when a couple of hostages did turn up (waving white flags) the IDF shot them - so much for Netanyahu's so-called 'rescue ' mission!

[Hamble]

You misunderstand......I'm saying Israel has placed destruction of Gaza, way above any release of the hostages. Yes, I know Netanyahu claimed at the start that they (the IDF) were going into Gaza to get the hostages back and to defeat Hamas.

But is that what they actually did? From what I've seen to date, it reads like a massive revenge attack on Gaza, its entire infrastructure and the Palestinian population there as a whole, regardless age or gender. Even when a couple of hostages did turn up (waving white flags) the IDF shot them - so much for Netanyahu's so-called 'rescue ' mission!

You should read a more factual account of defensive measures.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/on-bot...nderground-up/

[shippy]

You misunderstand......I'm saying Israel has placed destruction of Gaza, way above any release of the hostages. Yes, I know Netanyahu claimed at the start that they (the IDF) were going into Gaza to get the hostages back and to defeat Hamas.

But is that what they actually did? From what I've seen to date, it reads like a massive revenge attack on Gaza, its entire infrastructure and the Palestinian population there as a whole, regardless age or gender. Even when a couple of hostages did turn up (waving white flags) the IDF shot them - so much for Netanyahu's so-called 'rescue ' mission!

PNP. The destruction of many building in the northern part of Gaza was due to Hamas fighters taking shelter in many buildings. Also it was found most large buildings had a tunnels leading to other buildings.

You obviously cannot visualize in a million years , what the civilians of Gaza have been subjected to by Hamas.

Private homes with arm caches dug under children’s bed..tunnels dug under their home whether they agreed or not. Those not agreeing were shot by Hamas.

The revenge attack was not on the civilians. The attack is to rid Gaza of the scum Hamas,who have taken over for their own benefit.
The money that has been donated all these years has not been for the benefit of the Gaza civilians. It was used to pay young men top salaries to join Hamas. Many with large families have no choice and join up in order to use their salaries to feed their families.

Young boys as young as 12 years old were forced by Hamas to build those hundreds of miles of tunnels.
I can’t give you accurate number as to how many of those lads lost their lives.
Cancer stricken Gazans , were treated at hospitals in israel ..brought to the hospitals in Israel by volunteers..waited for them to finish chemotherapy or other treatments..some people were housed by the volunteers..
Thousands of Palestinian workers crossed the border legally each day to work in Israel. I not talking ten or twenty. Thousands passed the border crossing

It was a shocking mistake that two hostages were killed accidentally. I can imagine that their families are devastated.

War, as I have mentioned before in one of my posts,is horrific. So many young lives lost. Destruction of homes, people’s memories. I could go on and on.
Don’t always believe what you read in the papers. There is so much going on behind the scenes.

Those buildings were destroyed in order to find Hamas.
They still managed to double back and arrive to the Shifra hospital. Which btw is still working whilst the fighting is going on in those tunnels underneath the hospital.

A quarter of a million Israeli families have been moved to central Israel as rockets are coming over the border from other scum bags. Hizbollah. 100 rockets per day.

In other words, all I can say, the world is in a shambles.

[sandGroundZero]

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it's blown up in our faces

[shippy]

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it's blown up in our faces

With or without that money, which was forwarded by Netanyahu to Gaza, Hamas had a long term plan to break the border into Israel. Without that money Hamas wouldn’t have been able to enlist those recruits. Some as young as 16 years old.

It was quite a catch 22. Giving that money to Hamas, gave peace on that Southern border. Without the money, Hamas would cause a daily mayhem
Hamas was donated that cash by Qatar, intended for the poverty families of Gaza..well we know where that cash went.
Extra cash was collected by Hamas selling the food and oil donations to the poor. It was supposed to be free

Netanyahu made a huge mistake on one hand, but on the other hand it was the only way for him to keep Hamas firing rockets.

IDF certainly went to sleep this time at the expense of 1400 Israelis murdered and 240 people kidnapped into Gaza.

Will this all ever end.

It’s been repeated time after time. Return the hostages to Israel and the ceasefire will give time for negotiations to begin. With the help of an international participation

[The PNP]

IDF certainly went to sleep this time at the expense of 1400 Israelis murdered and 240 people kidnapped into Gaza.

If you ask me, that apparent 'gaffe' on the part of the IDF, remains a little suspicious.

It’s been repeated time after time. Return the hostages to Israel and the ceasefire will give time for negotiations to begin. With the help of an international participation

I don't know what Hamas's terms are for return of the hostages. But going by past hostage incidents, would suspect they will at least want Palestinian prisoners released in exchange.

[Hamble]

If you ask me, that apparent 'gaffe' on the part of the IDF, remains a little suspicious.

I don't know what Hamas's terms are for return of the hostages. But going by past hostage incidents, would suspect they will at least want Palestinian prisoners released in exchange.

You could look it up?

Or you could just remember it would be just another opportunity for Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad to torture Israeli's with hope.
At least the IDF is not relying on any deal in the search for hostages alive.

[sandGroundZero]

Netanyahu made a huge mistake …

Benjamin Netanyahu made a calculated gamble in order to sustain schisms among Palestinians' political factions. Had Israel been sincere about an independent Palestinian state and negotiated accordingly, then peace could have broken out years ago. Israel's leaders since 1967 have either evaded the question, or certainly since Menachem Begin they have repeatedly asserted that they have no intention of resolving the 'Palestinian problem' other than to contain the populations of Gaza and the West Bank, cock a snook at the international community and to wait for Arab neighbouring states to grow weary of domestic popular pressures and ignore the plight of the Palestinian people. Israel's friendly supporting nations, the United States, the UK and others, disingenuously ignored the gap between their purported two-state solution and Israel's clear determination to block such an outcome!

[shippy]

If you ask me, that apparent 'gaffe' on the part of the IDF, remains a little suspicious.

I don't know what Hamas's terms are for return of the hostages. But going by past hostage incidents, would suspect they will at least want Palestinian prisoners released in exchange.

There has been a lot of speculation and different theories as to what actually happened to the IDF that morning of the dreadful massacre ..
Until now, there hasn’t been an investigation or government enquiry.
According to Netanyahu, this will occur after the war.

Protests are happening nearly every day by the families of the hostages . They want to halt the war and repatriate those hostages at any price. (I can total understand)
A lot of unrest and anger by non supporters of Netanyahu,( the numbers anrr increasing daily) anger and cries that he and his government should get out. At this stage of the game this has boosted Hamas’s position in bargaining power.

What a mess.

[sandGroundZero]

The UN will vote on a US resolution declaring that an immediate cease-fire in Gaza is imperative UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The United Nations Security Council is set to vote on a United States-sponsored resolution declaring that “an immediate and sustained cease-fire” in the Israel-Hamas war in Gaza is “imperative” to protect civilians and enable humanitarian aid to be delivered to more than 2 million hungry Palestinians. U.S. Ambassador Linda Thomas-Greenfield said she was optimistic that the new, tougher draft resolution would be approved Friday by the 15-member council. The draft being put to a vote “determines” — which is a council order — “the imperative of an immediate and sustained cease-fire,” with no direct link to the release of hostages taken during Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack on Israel, which was in the previous draft. But it would unequivocally support diplomatic efforts “to secure such a cease-fire in connection with the release of all remaining hostages.” … Russia’s deputy U.N. ambassador Dmitry Polyansky said Moscow will not be satisfied “with anything that doesn’t call for an immediate cease-fire,” saying it’s what U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is pressing for and what “everybody” wants. He questioned the wording of the draft, asking, “What’s an imperative? I have an imperative to give you $100, but … it’s only an imperative, not $100.” “So, somebody’s fooling around, I think, (with the) international community,” the Russian envoy said. The Security Council had already adopted two resolutions on the worsening humanitarian situation in Gaza, but none calling for a cease-fire. … The final U.S. draft eliminated language in the initial draft that said Israel’s offensive in Rafah “should not proceed under current circumstances.” Instead, in an introductory paragraph, the council would emphasize its concern that a ground offensive into Rafah “would result in further harm to civilians and their further displacement, potentially into neighboring countries, and would have serious implications for regional peace and security.” For the first time in a U.N. resolution, the U.S. draft would condemn “all acts of terrorism, including the Hamas-led attacks of Oct. 7, 2023, as well as its taking and killing of hostages, murder of civilians, and sexual violence, including rape.” Edith M. Lederer | march 22, 2024 Copyright 2024 The Associated Press. underline added | Israel's evasions of international law rely heavily on the U.S. "fooling around … (with the) international community" in the UN Security Council. If the United States and Israel's other Western supporters — including notably the UK — had wanted to expedite the establishment of a Palestinian State, they could have done so long ago.

[shippy]

The UN will vote on a US resolution declaring that an immediate cease-fire in Gaza is imperative | Israel's evasions of international law rely heavily on the U.S. "fooling around … (with the) international community" in the UN Security Council. If the United States and Israel's other Western supporters — including notably the UK — had wanted to expedite the establishment of a Palestinian State, they could have done so long ago.

Zero good afternoon
I honestly feel that Hamas are laughing up their sleeve.( or ans we say in the U.K. “All the way to the bank”) All the support by the Pro Palestinian protestors have given Hamas a new lease of life.

Do you honestly feel that Hamas should be left to run Gaza , the same as they have been doing since Israel’s withdrawal in 2005..

A good leader, such as Anwar Sadat was. Wouldn’t that be a dream for the
people of Gaza.
I’m certain that those civilians in Gaza are fed up with all the misery and death, just as the civilians of Israel are.

What I can’t understand , and find it so hard to see, is the misery that Jews, who have lived in the U.K. for many generations, are now being used as scapegoats for what is happening in Israel.

Have people lost their minds, it’s absolutely dreadful what is happening at many of our First Class Universities..UCL, Cambridge and many others
UCL university have taken over a room at the University and called it “for non apartheid members only “
Thus insinuating that other Jewish Students are not allowed. FGS.

Where does this behaviour come from ? this wasn’t the Britain I was born into in 1943.

[sandGroundZero]

shippy's post #2381 Zero good afternoon I honestly feel that Hamas are laughing up their sleeve.( or ans we say in the U.K. “All the way to the bank”) All the support by the Pro Palestinian protestors have given Hamas a new lease of life. Do you honestly feel that Hamas should be left to run Gaza , the same as they have been doing since Israel’s withdrawal in 2005.. A good leader, such as Anwar Sadat was. Wouldn’t that be a dream for the people of Gaza. I’m certain that those civilians in Gaza are fed up with all the misery and death, just as the civilians of Israel are. What I can’t understand , and find it so hard to see, is the misery that Jews, who have lived in the U.K. for many generations, are now being used as scapegoats for what is happening in Israel. Have people lost their minds, it’s absolutely dreadful what is happening at many of our First Class Universities..UCL, Cambridge and many others UCL university have taken over a room at the University and called it “for non apartheid members only “ Thus insinuating that other Jewish Students are not allowed. FGS. Where does this behaviour come from ? this wasn’t the Britain I was born into in 1943. formatting added

It is entirely likely that 'Hamas' is disappointed that response among Muslims is less than they would have hoped. "Pro Palestinian protestors" are a diverse lot; you will have read of many Jewish people joining demonstrations here, in the UK alongside assorted peace activists, idealistic if naive youngsters and of course, longtime, dedicated advocates of civil rights for Palestine's displaced Arab population. Emphatically, I DO NOT wish to see Hamas' rule extended. However, the deaths of tens of thousands women, children, elderly and other non-combatants through Israel's response to the October 7 atrocities is an unacceptable and I suspect, ineffective way of eliminating violent radicalism. [ A much better way would be to negotiate in good faith an independent state, something a long succession of Israeli governments have set their face against. ] I'm interested to know, where do you find your information regarding "what is happening at many of our First Class Universities..UCL, Cambridge and many others"? Your assertion is not (for example) consistent with UCU statement on Israel/Gaza dated 10 October. That said, there has always been expressions of prejudice in the UK — 1943 and throughout our history — anti-Jewish not excepted! The population of the UK is more diverse, now, than it was in 1943. That hardly needs saying. Plus, recent decades have seen opportunities for expressing diverging views in the diversity of new media — not least so-called 'social' media. That being so, it is not very surprising that the conflicting sides — the State of Israel, plus allies versus Palestine's Arab population & their supporters — organize to maximize their respective cases.

[shippy]

shippy's post #2381 Zero good afternoon I honestly feel that Hamas are laughing up their sleeve.( or ans we say in the U.K. “All the way to the bank”) All the support by the Pro Palestinian protestors have given Hamas a new lease of life. Do you honestly feel that Hamas should be left to run Gaza , the same as they have been doing since Israel’s withdrawal in 2005.. A good leader, such as Anwar Sadat was. Wouldn’t that be a dream for the people of Gaza. I’m certain that those civilians in Gaza are fed up with all the misery and death, just as the civilians of Israel are. What I can’t understand , and find it so hard to see, is the misery that Jews, who have lived in the U.K. for many generations, are now being used as scapegoats for what is happening in Israel. Have people lost their minds, it’s absolutely dreadful what is happening at many of our First Class Universities..UCL, Cambridge and many others UCL university have taken over a room at the University and called it “for non apartheid members only “ Thus insinuating that other Jewish Students are not allowed. FGS. Where does this behaviour come from ? this wasn’t the Britain I was born into in 1943. formatting added

It is entirely likely that 'Hamas' is disappointed that response among Muslims is less than they would have hoped. "Pro Palestinian protestors" are a diverse lot; you will have read of many Jewish people joining demonstrations here, in the UK alongside assorted peace activists, idealistic if naive youngsters and of course, longtime, dedicated advocates of civil rights for Palestine's displaced Arab population. Emphatically, I DO NOT wish to see Hamas' rule extended. However, the deaths of tens of thousands women, children, elderly and other non-combatants through Israel's response to the October 7 atrocities is an unacceptable and I suspect, ineffective way of eliminating violent radicalism. [ A much better way would be to negotiate in good faith an independent state, something a long succession of Israeli governments have set their face against. ] I'm interested to know, where do you find your information regarding "what is happening at many of our First Class Universities..UCL, Cambridge and many others"? Your assertion is not (for example) consistent with UCU statement on Israel/Gaza dated 10 October. That said, there has always been expressions of prejudice in the UK — 1943 and throughout our history — anti-Jewish not excepted! The population of the UK is more diverse, now, than it was in 1943. That hardly needs saying. Plus, recent decades have seen opportunities for expressing diverging views in the diversity of new media — not least so-called 'social' media. That being so, it is not very surprising that the conflicting sides — the State of Israel, plus allies versus Palestine's Arab population & their supporters — organize to maximize their respective cases.

Good evening Zero

Thanks for your views, really very interesting.
Regarding where I receive my information from. My granddaughter is at UCL. ( University College London)

Cambridge has had a couple of skirmishes with pro Palestinian protesters
As I’m sure you know through the media, also that a valuable painting of Lord Balfour was destroyed by a young protester..sad, very sad that our country has gone to the dogs. ( that’s my opinion, no offense intended )
I think I prefer the old Britain.
I just feel so desperately sorry for the new generation, including my grandchildren , who will be faced with a completely different Britain than I grew up in.

It still amazes me that the Egyptians are not offering some sort of help to the civilians during this standoff.
I understand that the priority of Netanyahu was to go in, find the hostages and wipe out Sinwar. ( The Hamas leader)

Many Israelis want to finish the war, they feel that the hostages are mostly dead, due to the appalling conditions and the food shortages. Who knows, only after a ceasefire and the “return of live hostages “ will we know. It’s all speculation now.

There is supposed to be some sort of time date regarding a ceasefire . Let’s hope for the sake of both sides and possibly world peace, that this agreement with take place.

[said]

Good evening Zero

Thanks for your views, really very interesting.
Regarding where I receive my information from. My granddaughter is at UCL. ( University College London)

Cambridge has had a couple of skirmishes with pro Palestinian protesters
As I’m sure you know through the media, also that a valuable painting of Lord Balfour was destroyed by a young protester..sad, very sad that our country has gone to the dogs. ( that’s my opinion, no offense intended )
I think I prefer the old Britain.
I just feel so desperately sorry for the new generation, including my grandchildren , who will be faced with a completely different Britain than I grew up in.

It still amazes me that the Egyptians are not offering some sort of help to the civilians during this standoff.
I understand that the priority of Netanyahu was to go in, find the hostages and wipe out Sinwar. ( The Hamas leader)

Many Israelis want to finish the war, they feel that the hostages are mostly dead, due to the appalling conditions and the food shortages. Who knows, only after a ceasefire and the “return of live hostages “ will we know. It’s all speculation now.

There is supposed to be some sort of time date regarding a ceasefire . Let’s hope for the sake of both sides and possibly world peace, that this agreement with take place.

Throughout the whole of my life, I have never known any peace in the Middle East - there has always been infighting of one kind or another. It is a shame - it is lovely to visit those countries and so interesting to see how other people live. I miss those times when each country offered a 'different' holiday. Anywhere you go in Europe, it is all the same - so boring.

Israel, Hamas and the Palestinians should not be against one another - they are all people from the same beginnings. That is the published media propaganda profit making machine.

[shippy]

Said I liked your post. I’m using my iPhone and my eyes are not too good. Thank you for your post.