Middle east crisis.

[sandGroundZero]

I don't think it is wise at this point to construct arguments on the attention-seeking re-writing of Jewish history by Sand, whose father had a problem with being Jewish, and who himself has decided he doesn't want to be a Jew any more. Read about him here:

Hector, you appear to wish to discredit the man e.g.

"…and who himself has decided he doesn't want to be a Jew any more."

…without even a tangential reference to Shlomo Sand's arguments.

But as Sand explains: "Although the state of Israel is not disposed to transform my official nationality from “Jew” to “Israeli”, … In the light of the historic tragedies of the 20th century, I am determined no longer to be a small minority in an exclusive club that others have neither the possibility nor the qualifications to join.

"…I am myself a part of the cultural, linguistic and even conceptual production of the Zionist enterprise, and I cannot undo this."

— Shlomo Sand: ‘I wish to resign and cease considering myself a Jew’

______________________________________________________________________

My post #142 is apropos of highly suspect ethnography:

…Prior to becoming Israel the area was known as Canaan, 4000 BC. with the twelve tribes of Jacob, and the semetic language used became Hebrew around 1400 BC. Palestinians falsely claim they are descendants of the Cannanites, when in fact, they are descendants of the people of that which is known now as Iraq. …

…highlighting an alternative account of Palestinian heritage.

[Hector]

Hector, you appear to wish to discredit the man e.g.

"…and who himself has decided he doesn't want to be a Jew any more."

…without even a tangential reference to Shlomo Sand's arguments.

But as Sand explains: "Although the state of Israel is not disposed to transform my official nationality from “Jew” to “Israeli”, … In the light of the historic tragedies of the 20th century, I am determined no longer to be a small minority in an exclusive club that others have neither the possibility nor the qualifications to join.

"…I am myself a part of the cultural, linguistic and even conceptual production of the Zionist enterprise, and I cannot undo this."

— Shlomo Sand: ‘I wish to resign and cease considering myself a Jew’

______________________________________________________________________

My post #142 is apropos of highly suspect ethnography:

…highlighting an alternative account of Palestinian heritage.

Sand has a revisionist version of history and his upbringing would appear to be be a causative factor in his need to reimagine the past.

You are quite right in your pointing out that I have not given his revision serious consideration. Why should I? The established story is convincing. Meanwhile his motivation is suspect.

[sandGroundZero]

Sand has a revisionist version of history and his upbringing would appear to be be a causative factor in his need to reimagine the past.
You are quite right in your pointing out that I have not given his revision serious consideration. Why should I? The established story is convincing. Meanwhile his motivation is suspect.

Out of curiosity, which established convincing story? Are you referring to:

…Palestinians falsely claim they are descendants of the Cannanites, when in fact, they are descendants of the people of that which is known now as Iraq. …

…or more generally?

[said]

Everybody likes to back a winner, evaluate the contenders - a nuclear power with high tech weapon systems against a 3rd world country with a ragbag 'military' using castoff weaponry from other states.

Saudi Arabia has been supporting Palestinians with arms that it purchased from the Russians. The Palestinians are not without fire power by a long chalk.

[Hector]

Out of curiosity, which established convincing story? Are you referring to:

…or more generally?

Oh dear. Go back to playing with your coloured pencils, Zero! If you had actually read Sand, you would know that he disputes the expulsion of the Jewish people after the Judean revolution and subsequent distruction of the temple. That is the revisionism with which I have no time.

[sandGroundZero]

Oh dear. Go back to playing with your coloured pencils, Zero! If you had actually read Sand, you would know that he disputes the expulsion of the Jewish people after the Judean revolution and subsequent distruction of the temple. That is the revisionism with which I have no time.

yes

… One account¹ (stridently rejected by Zionist nationalists, it must be noted) is that there never was an expulsion of the bulk of the population of Israel after the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE. The Romans were not noted for deportation of (even restive) religious minorities en masse. The population of Palestine arguably converted from Judaism to Islam (much later, of course) out of some combination of expediency and threat. In this account, the Jewish diaspora owes much to successful proselytizing, not exile. …

Shlomo Sand along with many other Jewish and non-Jewish scholars dispute elements of the received wisdom derived from the Torah and subsequent Biblical and other sources purporting to be an account of historical events. Sand argues that medieval Jewish scholarship deployed these sources uncritically to underscore believers' faith. Furthermore, early Zionists capitalized on centuries of Christian misbelief of these same sources. Revision is quite in order.

I merely inquired as to which version of the story you subscribe?

[Alikado]

Saudi Arabia has been supporting Palestinians with arms that it purchased from the Russians. The Palestinians are not without fire power by a long chalk.

Popguns compared with what the Israelis have at their disposal.

[said]

Popguns compared with what the Israelis have at their disposal.

I don't think so - the Saudis are among Russia's biggest arms customers and as much as the Americans boast about their armaments, they are well outdated compared to Russian arms. If you have been following the American economy you will see that it has been struggling since the 2009 crash - it does not have the money for superior arms. 2017 was particularly bad and it is trying to hook money in from every source.

[Alikado]

I don't think so - the Saudis are among Russia's biggest arms customers and as much as the Americans boast about their armaments, they are well outdated compared to Russian arms. If you have been following the American economy you will see that it has been struggling since the 2009 crash - it does not have the money for superior arms. 2017 was particularly bad and it is trying to hook money in from every source.

The Russians may have superior armaments to the Americans but what they sell to the likes of Hamas is all old low tech stuff.

[said]

The Russians may have superior armaments to the Americans but what they sell to the likes of Hamas is all old low tech stuff.

Are you sure about that? I don't think Hamas would accept low grade arms.

[Polly Trott]

Richard Silverstein appears to with Said on this one - well an upgrade from firecrackers at least

"BREAKING: Hamas Fires Iranian-Made Cruise Missiles for First Time, Five Israelis Killed - Tikun Olam ????? ????" https://www.richardsilverstein.com/2...raelis-killed/

[Alikado]

Are you sure about that? I don't think Hamas would accept low grade arms.

They would accept anything thats going, they don't have the infrastucture or the technical knowledge or personal to operate high tech.

[Hector]

Egyptian brokered ceasefire now. Let us hope negotiations now prove fruitful.

[seivad]

Richard Silverstein appears to with Said on this one - well an upgrade from firecrackers at least

"BREAKING: Hamas Fires Iranian-Made Cruise Missiles for First Time, Five Israelis Killed - Tikun Olam ????? ????" https://www.richardsilverstein.com/2...raelis-killed/

Not quite! Home made unguided missiles produced in Gaza with technical expertise provided by Iran.

A HOMEGROWN INDUSTRY

After Morsi's overthrow, Egypt cracked down on and shut hundreds of smuggling tunnels. In response, Gaza’s local weapons industry picked up.

“The Iranian narrative is that they kick-started all the missile production in Gaza and gave them the technical and knowledge base, but now the Palestinians are self-sufficient, said Fabian Hinz, an independent security analyst focusing on missiles in the Middle East. “Today, most of the rockets we’re seeing are domestically built, often with creative techniques.”

In a September documentary aired by the Al-Jazeera satellite news network, rare footage showed Hamas militants reassembling Iranian rockets with ranges of up to 80 kilometers (50 miles) and warheads packed with 175 kilograms (385 pounds) of explosives. Hamas militants opened unexploded Israeli missiles from previous strikes to extract explosive materials. They even salvaged old water pipes to repurpose as missile bodies.

To produce rockets, Hamas chemists and engineers mix propellant from fertilizer, oxidizer and other ingredients in makeshift factories. Key contraband is still believed to be smuggled into Gaza in a handful of tunnels that remain in operation.

Hamas has publicly praised Iran for its assistance, which experts say now primarily takes the form of blueprints, engineering know-how, motor tests and other technical expertise. The State Department reports that Iran provides $100 million a year to Palestinian armed groups.'

There are several media sources reporting the same information. I used the link below.

https://abcnews.go.com/International...srael-77798264

[seivad]

I don't think so - the Saudis are among Russia's biggest arms customers and as much as the Americans boast about their armaments, they are well outdated compared to Russian arms.

I've no idea which country can claim to have superior armaments, but there's no doubt that the US is the number one supplier of arms to Saudi Arabia. The UK holds the second place.

If you have been following the American economy you will see that it has been struggling since the 2009 crash - it does not have the money for superior arms. 2017 was particularly bad and it is trying to hook money in from every source.

The financial crisis was from 2007-2008. The US economy started to recover in 2009. From 2009 on, the US economy had the longest economic expansion in its history until Covid hit them.

That said, what does the US economy have to do with the manufacture of arms? It may affect the government's financial ability to procure arms for its own military, but the arms industry grinds on, manufacturing and selling arms to whomever wants them.