Middle east crisis.

[local]

They certainly do not matter to Radical Islamic Jihad.

No they don't matter to them their just expendable pawns in their crazy religious crusade,

but they also don't matter to Israel either who treat them so badly in their crazy religious crusade.

What sparked the current unrest,

the eviction of Palestinian families from their homes in the strategically situated Sheikh Jarrah at the moment waiting for confirmation from the Supreme Court.

The weak Biden will stand by and wring his hands till Israel have finished, other countries will ignore it completely.

[The PNP]

...the eviction of Palestinian families from their homes in the strategically situated Sheikh Jarrah at the moment waiting for confirmation from the Supreme Court.

Expect renewed 'fireworks' when the day of the physical evictions comes round....I can't see the evicted residents going peacefully.

[donkey22]

Hector is asking you about your support for this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Palestine_Movement

You can support the Palestinian cause without supporting a terrorist organisation.

To set the record straight with you Hamble, no, I do not support any terrorist organisations, I have never posted anything to support that notion if you read back through my posts. ‘One mans terrorist is another’s freedom fighter’ is a commonly used slogan to get a point across. It is not my way of condoning violence.
As I’ve said before to you, my sympathies lie with the people of Palestine. The icon I use is not used by the free Palestine movement as can be seen in the link you kindly posted.
I found the following post from Hector to be deeply offensive and was the final straw.

Hector said:
Thank you for confirming that you are indeed a Hamas- supporting, anti-Semitic, flag-waving schoolgirl.

Perhaps when you grow into a woman, you will change. Let's hope so.

More importantly, the IDF are going into the Hamas tunnels. Let's hope that has some impact and life can get back to normal (or as close to normal) for all.

It was particularly the anti-Semitic part. I’ve definitely not posted anything of that nature on here. I wouldn’t because I’m most definitely not anti-Semitic and can’t even fathom out the reasoning for this. I was brought up with family friends as well as work colleagues who are Jewish. And the personal insults were just childish and I should have ignored them. Emotionally because of personal loss, I’m not in the best of places at the moment so took them to heart more than I normally would.
Anyway, I’m done with participating in this thread now, but will still follow it with interest and carry on with the like’s and dislikes accordingly.

[Hector]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-57125479


"A US envoy has arrived in Tel Aviv for de-escalation talks as tensions between Israel and Palestine continue.

Hady Amr will take part in talks with Israeli, Palestinian and UN officials in the hope of agreeing on a ceasefire."

The important thing is to stop the killing now and worrry about long term solutions later. If there are any.

[Hamble]

No they don't matter to them their just expendable pawns in their crazy religious crusade,

but they also don't matter to Israel either who treat them so badly in their crazy religious crusade.

What sparked the current unrest,

the eviction of Palestinian families from their homes in the strategically situated Sheikh Jarrah at the moment waiting for confirmation from the Supreme Court.

The weak Biden will stand by and wring his hands till Israel have finished, other countries will ignore it completely.

That is because every single country in the world with a problem with Islamic Jihadism wants the problem erased with as little death to civilians as possible.

How much harder the problem is in countries where the terrorism is home grown?

I support a two State solution.
The actions of Hamas in attacking Israel has lifted 'domestic' hostility to war.
This does not help the goal of a two state solution.

I fear now the answer will be 'partition' swopping a state built on peace to states get apart by walls and armed borders.

Anyone who wants to 'free Palestine' without peace from both sides is helping Islamic Jihad Hamas with war crimes on the people of Palestine.

[Hamble]

Expect renewed 'fireworks' when the day of the physical evictions comes round....I can't see the evicted residents going peacefully.

The High Court of Israel had postponed any judgement before Hamas fired its first shot at Israel.

[The PNP]

That is because every single country in the world with a problem with Islamic Jihadism wants the problem erased with as little death to civilians as possible.

Palestinians forcibly displaced by migrating Europeans, have been fighting back since around 1947 - long before Islamic Jihad came into the picture.

[Hamble]

To set the record straight with you Hamble, no, I do not support any terrorist organisations, I have never posted anything to support that notion if you read back through my posts. ‘One mans terrorist is another’s freedom fighter’ is a commonly used slogan to get a point across. It is not my way of condoning violence.
As I’ve said before to you, my sympathies lie with the people of Palestine. The icon I use is not used by the free Palestine movement as can be seen in the link you kindly posted.
I found the following post from Hector to be deeply offensive and was the final straw.

Hector said:
Thank you for confirming that you are indeed a Hamas- supporting, anti-Semitic, flag-waving schoolgirl.

Perhaps when you grow into a woman, you will change. Let's hope so.

More importantly, the IDF are going into the Hamas tunnels. Let's hope that has some impact and life can get back to normal (or as close to normal) for all.

It was particularly the anti-Semitic part. I’ve definitely not posted anything of that nature on here. I wouldn’t because I’m most definitely not anti-Semitic and can’t even fathom out the reasoning for this. I was brought up with family friends as well as work colleagues who are Jewish. And the personal insults were just childish and I should have ignored them. Emotionally because of personal loss, I’m not in the best of places at the moment so took them to heart more than I normally would.
Anyway, I’m done with participating in this thread now, but will still follow it with interest and carry on with the like’s and dislikes accordingly.

I know that Donkey you are not the least bit racist in anything tried to help you by showing how your avatar could be misunderstood.

Please do not be upset and continue to post
I love your posts we have had some interesting exchanges.

I also respect the views of Hector did not wish to interfere.

The raised fist avatar is a political solidarity symbol sensitive to Israeli
victims of murder and suicide bombings by civilian Arab Israeli's
supporting the Palestinian cause.

The 'Free Palestine Movement' has good and bad links.

Sadly the Army and police are now struggling to control civil war in some parts of Israel tensions are running high on both sides.

Israeli Jews feel the Israeli Arabs have been planning a coordinated attack with Hamas for years.

As Hector said the mostly young Israeli Arabs have been incited more by social media into identity and violence.

Lets all hope there is peace and a new beginning to sort out the 'domestic' problems which include land rights.

Virtual hug.
H

[sandGroundZero]

On October 27, 1967 …Martin Luther King had dinner with students from Harvard University in Boston …
He was reported to have chided a critic of Zionism:

"When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You’re talking anti-Semitism!" — ex: post #39

This assertion is a fallacy¹.
Rev. King's oratory was replete with Biblical allusions. Exodus, Babylonian captivity and other Biblical tales were oratorical analogies for King and his audiences. Rev. King was undoubtedly speaking from personal conviction, but that conviction cannot be taken as definitive.
When people criticize Zionists, they are NOT perforce "talking anti-Semitism!"

1. The ad verecundiam fallacy concerns appeals to authority or expertise. Fundamentally, the fallacy involves accepting as evidence for a proposition the pronouncement of someone who is taken to be an authority but is not really an authority.

[donkey22]

I know that Donkey you are not the least bit racist in anything tried to help you by showing how your avatar could be misunderstood.

Please do not be upset and continue to post
I love your posts we have had some interesting exchanges.

I also respect the views of Hector did not wish to interfere.

The raised fist avatar is a political solidarity symbol sensitive to Israeli
victims of murder and suicide bombings by civilian Arab Israeli's
supporting the Palestinian cause.

The 'Free Palestine Movement' has good and bad links.

Sadly the Army and police are now struggling to control civil war in some parts of Israel tensions are running high on both sides.

Israeli Jews feel the Israeli Arabs have been planning a coordinated attack with Hamas for years.

As Hector said the mostly young Israeli Arabs have been incited more by social media into identity and violence.

Lets all hope there is peace and a new beginning to sort out the 'domestic' problems which include land rights.

Virtual hug.
H

Your kind words are welcome Hamble. I’d wish for nothing more than some kind of amicable arrangement to solve the problems of the middle east. Sadly this seems more and more impossible as the upsetting and hellish scenes unfold and intensify every day.
Please accept a virtual hug in return.

[The PNP]

The High Court of Israel had postponed any judgement before Hamas fired its first shot at Israel.

Based on the Israelis past actions in clearing-out Palestinians, it's bound to resurface somewhere down the line.

[Toodles McGinty]

Even though I've read reams on the subject, I'm not even close to understanding the situation. But folk on here do seem to have a handle on it.

So regarding the two state solution, why isn't Palestine recognised as a country, with the rights and status that entails? I understand that geographically that's difficult, with so many sites of religious importance in Jerusalem, for example, but if a solution can't be found there, surely there will never be a solution?

While understandably Israelis need to defend themselves against Hamas rockets, there seems to be disproportionate force used on the streets - Palestinian kids throwing stones, Israeli forces answering with bullets. Why no condemnation internationally? Forced evictions?

I know it is over simplifying it, but it seems most of it comes down to religion, as usual a force for peace the world over...

Can there ever be peace in the Middle East?

[Hamble]

Your kind words are welcome Hamble. I’d wish for nothing more than some kind of amicable arrangement to solve the problems of the middle east. Sadly this seems more and more impossible as the upsetting and hellish scenes unfold and intensify every day.
Please accept a virtual hug in return.

Thank you old bean accepted with gratitude. x

[Hamble]

Even though I've read reams on the subject, I'm not even close to understanding the situation. But folk on here do seem to have a handle on it.

So regarding the two state solution, why isn't Palestine recognised as a country, with the rights and status that entails? I understand that geographically that's difficult, with so many sites of religious importance in Jerusalem, for example, but if a solution can't be found there, surely there will never be a solution?

While understandably Israelis need to defend themselves against Hamas rockets, there seems to be disproportionate force used on the streets - Palestinian kids throwing stones, Israeli forces answering with bullets. Why no condemnation internationally? Forced evictions?

I know it is over simplifying it, but it seems most of it comes down to religion, as usual a force for peace the world over...

Can there ever be peace in the Middle East?

Two very different politics both tied up with religion.

One problem is that in Israel the IDF and police carry/use weapons civilians are regulated answerable to law officially not allowed to use them.
Israel could until recently control.

Palestine is different there are many factions apart from Hamas
and Palestinian civilian arming is part of the 'resistance' movement.

The Palestinian Authority have to keep the peace which is hard when certain factions infiltrate Israel trying to kidnap soldiers as hostages.

[Hector]

Even though I've read reams on the subject, I'm not even close to understanding the situation. But folk on here do seem to have a handle on it.

So regarding the two state solution, why isn't Palestine recognised as a country, with the rights and status that entails? I understand that geographically that's difficult, with so many sites of religious importance in Jerusalem, for example, but if a solution can't be found there, surely there will never be a solution?

While understandably Israelis need to defend themselves against Hamas rockets, there seems to be disproportionate force used on the streets - Palestinian kids throwing stones, Israeli forces answering with bullets. Why no condemnation internationally? Forced evictions?

I know it is over simplifying it, but it seems most of it comes down to religion, as usual a force for peace the world over...

Can there ever be peace in the Middle East?

I don't think anyone really understands the situation, and as you say it is embroiled in religion. Prophet Mohammed and the Qur'an was favourable towards 'the people of the book ' in early verses, but then became hostile in later verses when he learned, surprise surprise, that Jews didn't really need another prophet and interpreter of their religion. Given this hostility, not to be anti-Jewish is heresy for many Moslems, and this was demonstrated by the approval of Hitler by leading Islamic clerics.

And then we have the return of the Jewish people to their historic homeland after WWII.This was possible because only 10% of Palestinians were living there. It was a desert and they were living mainly in Jordan and Syria.

As the returning Jews made the desert bloom, the Arabs returned. We then had Arab attempts to drive the Jewish people into the sea in 1948 and, within my memory, in 1967, when around 5 major Arab nations tried once again to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth, but were defeated in 6 days.

When countries go to war, there are consequences when you lose. The British were made well aware of that in 1066 and the Germans and Japanese in 1945. I said earlier that the Israeli Arabs I have met have been well-satisfied with their Israeli nationality and would have laughed in the face of anyone who asked if they might prefer a Jordanian passport.

But the reality is that a two state solution is probably the only way out. Of course this is easier said than done, and it would only be a matter of time before that new Arab state became as much of a mess as the others.