Middle east crisis.

[sandGroundZero]

As the West Bank is part of the proposed Palestinian State I think Israeli settlers should withdraw.
Whether Israel would insist the Palestinian palatial mansions built illegally on the State of Israel land should also go-that I do not know.

…
So you will appreciate that although galling your hypocrisy on illegal settlements by Palestinians is not on par with your hypocrisy on promoting a one State Israel/Palestine is repulsively ignorant.

The hypocrisy is all yours! You have repeatedly proclaimed advocacy of a two-state solution and you attempt to rebut evidence that Israeli governments have blocked a Palestinian state. At the same time, Israel encourages Jewish settlement — Israel's 'facts on the ground' — as it dangles the prospect of a Palestinian state. The reality is that Israel's offer for Palestinians is balkanized enclaves under Israeli control — segregating and depriving Palestinian Arabs of civil and human rights. As for your reference to illegal settlements "…Palestinian palatial mansions …on the State of Israel land …", [as is asserted in your aforementioned link] refer to so-called Area C representing roughly 60% of the West Bank. Readers of this thread may know that for many Israelis the West Bank is known as Judea & Samaria and regarded as Israel's patrimony. Israel's hypocrisy regarding a two-state solution is rank and you, Hamble, are its foremost expounder on this thread.

[Hamble]

The hypocrisy is all yours! You have repeatedly proclaimed advocacy of a two-state solution and you attempt to rebut evidence that Israeli governments have blocked a Palestinian state, all the while encouraging Jewish settlement — Israel's 'facts on the ground' — as it dangles the prospect of a Palestinian state. The reality is that Israel's offer for Palestinians is balkanized enclaves under Israeli control — segregating and depriving Palestinian Arabs of civil and human rights. As for your reference to illegal settlements "…Palestinian palatial mansions …on the State of Israel land …", [as is asserted in your aforementioned link] refer to so-called Area C representing roughly 60% of the West Bank also known by many Israelis, as happens, as Judea & Samaria. Israel's hypocrisy regarding a two-state solution is rank and you, Hamble, are its foremost expounder on this thread.

Israel has jurisdiction over building regulations.
Someone has to after Palestine refused partition in 1947.


Quote
"Since the 1993 Oslo Accords, the Palestinian Authority officially controls a geographically non-contiguous territory comprising approximately 11% of the West Bank, known as Area A, which remains subject to Israeli incursions. Area B, approximately 28%, is subject to joint Israeli-Palestinian military and Palestinian civil control. Area C, approximately 61%, is under full Israeli control. Though 164 nations refer to the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, as "Occupied Palestinian Territory",[35][36] the state of Israel quotes the UN that only territories captured in war from "an established and recognized sovereign" are considered occupied territories.[37]"


And
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...tion-in-area-c

[sandGroundZero]

Israel has jurisdiction over building regulations.
Someone has to after Palestine refused partition in 1947.

Oslo Accords [Wikipedia extract]

Since the 1993 Oslo Accords,

• the Palestinian Authority officially controls a geographically non-contiguous territory comprising approximately 11% of the West Bank, known as Area A, which remains subject to Israeli incursions.
• Area B, approximately 28%, is subject to joint Israeli-Palestinian military and Palestinian civil control.
• Area C, approximately 61%, is under full Israeli control.

Though 164 nations refer to the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, as "Occupied Palestinian Territory", the state of Israel quotes the UN that only territories captured in war from "an established and recognized sovereign" are considered occupied territories.

formatting, underline and bold text added

— the infamous Oslo Accords PLO leader Yasser Arafat made massive concessions in the expectation of a Palestinian state. Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin & Co. baulked and the subsequent Fatah-Hamas split followed. Yasser Arafat shared the Nobel Prize for his efforts; Israeli PM Yitzhak Rabin — assassinated.

[Hamble]

— the infamous Oslo Accords PLO leader Yasser Arafat made massive concessions in the expectation of a Palestinian state. Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin & Co. baulked and the subsequent Fatah-Hamas split followed. Yasser Arafat shared the Nobel Prize for his efforts; Israeli PM Yitzhak Rabin — assassinated.

Some one tell him it was a joint Nobel Peace prize.

[sandGroundZero]

Hamble's post #2312 Israel has jurisdiction over building regulations. Someone has to after Palestine refused partition in 1947. Oslo Accords [Wikipedia extract] "Since the 1993 the Palestinian Authority officially controls a geographically non-contiguous territory comprising approximately 11% of the West Bank, known as Area A, which remains subject to Israeli incursions. Area B, approximately 28%, is subject to joint Israeli-Palestinian military and Palestinian civil control. Area C, approximately 61%, is under full Israeli control. Though 164 nations refer to the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, as "Occupied Palestinian Territory",[35][36] the state of Israel quotes the UN that only territories captured in war from "an established and recognized sovereign" are considered occupied territories. formatting, underline & bold text added And Illegal Palestinian Construction in Area C (2008 - 2022)

You swerve. How do you reconcile the carve-up of the West Bank — Areas A, B & C — with a viable, independent Palestinian state? Yasser Arafat made big concessions for the Oslo Accords. What has Israel done, apart from doubling down on Jewish settlements? It seems Israel does not want a Palestinian state. Instead, Israel wants to manage and marginalize the "Palestinian problem" and wait for its Arab neighbouring states to 'normalize' diplomatic relations with the help of its U.S. alley.

[local]

I don't think it could be made clearer that there isn't going to be a Palestine state as it stands.

The "offer" as I understand is another indeterminate time back in the prison camp.

Apart from tens of thousands dead, you would have to be delusional to think the current action is going to produce a safe state for either side.

[Hamble]

Hamble's post #2312 Israel has jurisdiction over building regulations. Someone has to after Palestine refused partition in 1947. Oslo Accords [Wikipedia extract] "Since the 1993 the Palestinian Authority officially controls a geographically non-contiguous territory comprising approximately 11% of the West Bank, known as Area A, which remains subject to Israeli incursions. Area B, approximately 28%, is subject to joint Israeli-Palestinian military and Palestinian civil control. Area C, approximately 61%, is under full Israeli control. Though 164 nations refer to the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, as "Occupied Palestinian Territory",[35][36] the state of Israel quotes the UN that only territories captured in war from "an established and recognized sovereign" are considered occupied territories. formatting, underline & bold text added And Illegal Palestinian Construction in Area C (2008 - 2022)

You swerve. How do you reconcile the carve-up of the West Bank — Areas A, B & C — with a viable, independent Palestinian state? Yasser Arafat made big concessions for the Oslo Accords. What has Israel done, apart from doubling down on Jewish settlements? It seems Israel does not want a Palestinian state. Instead, Israel wants to manage and marginalize the "Palestinian problem" and wait for its Arab neighbouring states to 'normalize' diplomatic relations with the help of its U.S. alley.

Palestine does not meet the requirements of International recognition for Statehood now or before October 7th.

Fatah was the rightful group to lead Palestine to statehood until Hamas military coup split Palestinian governance to two warring groups in Palestine.

[Hamble]

I don't think it could be made clearer that there isn't going to be a Palestine state as it stands.

The "offer" as I understand is another indeterminate time back in the prison camp.

Apart from tens of thousands dead, you would have to be delusional to think the current action is going to produce a safe state for either side.

That is my worry.
Hamas will not surrender or accept defeat or return the hostages.
Will Israel just decide enough is enough.

Without a Two State solution security for Israel will prevent foreign aid rebuilding of Palestine resulting in refugees applying to the West.

[sandGroundZero]

Originally posted by Hamble post #2085: How many countries recognize Palestine? As of 2 June 2023, 139 (72%) of the 193 member states of the United Nations have recognised the State of Palestine. International recognition of the State of Palestine ......"Non-member observer state status Further information: United Nations General Assembly resolution 67/19 During September 2012, Palestine decided to pursue an upgrade in status from "observer entity" to "non-member observer state". On 27 November of the same year, it was announced that the appeal had been made officially and would be put to a vote in the General Assembly on 29 November, where the status upgrade was expected to be supported by a majority of states. In addition to granting Palestine "non-member observer state status", the draft resolution "expresses the hope that the Security Council will consider favorably the application submitted on 23 September 2011 by the State of Palestine for admission to full membership in the United Nations, endorses the two state solution based on the pre-1967 borders, and stresses the need for an immediate resumption of negotiations between the two parties." On 29 November 2012, in a 138–9 vote (with 41 abstaining) General Assembly resolution 67/19 passed, upgrading Palestine to "non-member observer state" status in the United Nations.[78][79] The new status equated Palestine's with that of the Holy See. The change in status was described by The Independent as "de facto recognition of the sovereign state of Palestine".[80] Voting "no" were Israel, Canada, the Czech Republic, the Marshall Islands, the Federated States of Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, Panama and the United States. The vote was an important benchmark for the partially recognized State of Palestine and its citizens, while it was a diplomatic setback for Israel and the United States. Status as an observer state in the UN allows the State of Palestine to join treaties and specialized UN agencies,[81] the Law of the Seas treaty, and the International Criminal Court. It permits Palestine to pursue legal rights over its territorial waters and air space as a sovereign state recognized by the UN, and allows the Palestinian people the right to sue for sovereignty over their territory in the International Court of Justice and to bring "crimes against humanity" and war-crimes charges, including that of unlawfully occupying the territory of State of Palestine, against Israel in the International Criminal Court.[82][83] The UN has, after the resolution was passed, permitted Palestine to title its representative office to the UN as "The Permanent Observer Mission of the State of Palestine to the United Nations",[84] seen by many as a reflection of the UN's de facto position of recognizing the State of Palestine's sovereignty under international law,[78] and Palestine started to re-title its name accordingly on postal stamps, official documents and passports.[79][85] The Palestinian authorities also instructed its diplomats to officially represent the "State of Palestine", as opposed to the "Palestine National Authority".[79] Additionally, on 17 December 2012, UN Chief of Protocol Yeocheol Yoon decided that "the designation of "State of Palestine" shall be used by the Secretariat in all official United Nations documents",[37] recognizing the "State of Palestine" as the official name of the Palestinian nation. On 26 September 2013 at the United Nations, Mahmoud Abbas was given the right to sit in the General Assembly's beige chair which is reserved for heads of state waiting to take the podium and address the General Assembly.[86]"....... After October 7th massacre on Israel the calculated plan towards a one State Palestine is sickening. An additional extract from the same Wikipedia entry: International recognition of the State of Palestine Israeli position "Between the end of the Six-Day War and the Oslo Accords, no Israeli government proposed a Palestinian state. During Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government of 1996–1999, he accused the two previous governments of Rabin and Peres of bringing closer to realisation what he claimed to be the "danger" of a Palestinian state, and stated that his main policy goal was to ensure that the Palestinian Authority did not evolve beyond an autonomy.[26]" Note 26: Ziv, Guy (2 November 2017). "Fight the Right-wingers Rewriting History: Rabin Wanted a Palestinian State". Haaretz. Retrieved 7 September 2021.

[Hamble]

Originally posted by Hamble post #2085: How many countries recognize Palestine? As of 2 June 2023, 139 (72%) of the 193 member states of the United Nations have recognised the State of Palestine. International recognition of the State of Palestine After October 7th massacre on Israel the calculated plan towards a one State Palestine is sickening. An additional extract from the same Wikipedia entry: International recognition of the State of Palestine Israeli position "Between the end of the Six-Day War and the Oslo Accords, no Israeli government proposed a Palestinian state. During Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government of 1996–1999, he accused the two previous governments of Rabin and Peres of bringing closer to realisation what he claimed to be the "danger" of a Palestinian state, and stated that his main policy goal was to ensure that the Palestinian Authority did not evolve beyond an autonomy.[26]" Note 26: Ziv, Guy (2 November 2017). "Fight the Right-wingers Rewriting History: Rabin Wanted a Palestinian State". Haaretz. Retrieved 7 September 2021.

The World has bent over backwards to enable Palestine to reach Statehood warring radical Islamic factions in Palestine have thwarted
the final step by killing each other in the struggle for power.

If Palestine cannot unite in peace how can it make peace with Israel?

Palestine has also involved other warring Nations with its Colonial roots.

The ball is in Hamas court.
Release the hostages.Protect your your civilians.Surrender!

[sandGroundZero]

The World has bent over backwards to enable Palestine to reach Statehood warring radical Islamic factions in Palestine have thwarted the final step by killing each other in the struggle for power.
If Palestine cannot unite in peace how can it make peace with Israel?
Palestine has also involved other warring Nations with its Colonial roots.
The ball is in Hamas court.
Release the hostages.Protect your your civilians.Surrender!

Israeli governments have made calculated efforts to foment division among Palestinian factions. All the while, they have plied the Israeli population with fear mongering and hoodwinked the international community with diversionary rhetoric occasionally hinting at the eventual possibility of a Palestinian state. Benjamin Netanyahu's Cabinet since December 29, 2022 has reinforced its settler "facts on the ground" by strategically isolating Palestinians and promoting Jewish settlements (going so far as to distribute military weapons to settlers); plus, massively developing pro-settler infrastructure.

[sandGroundZero]

Biden’s closest allies are stepping up pressure on White House to do more to ease suffering in Gaza WASHINGTON (AP) — More of President Joe Biden’s top Senate allies are demanding that the U.S. act directly to ease Palestinian civilian suffering in Gaza and are joining calls to cut military aid if Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu refuses to change course. What had been dissent from independent Sen. Bernie Sanders and a small group of progressive Democrats has swelled in response to the soaring death toll in Gaza. Now even Biden’s closest confidant in Congress, Chris Coons, says it is time to get tougher with Netanyahu’s government on how it conducts the war. Israel continues to enjoy bipartisan support in Congress, and the prospect of military aid being reduced is uncertain despite the clout that these more mainstream Democrats wield. But tensions could be evident Thursday as Biden speaks to Congress about the conflict in his State of the Union address. … In the last few days alone, Coons, a senator from Biden’s home state of Delaware, called for the U.S. to cut military aid to Israel if Netanyahu goes ahead with a threatened offensive on the southern city of Rafah without significant provisions to protect the more than 1 million civilians sheltering there. Sen. Jack Reed, head of the Senate Armed Services Committee, appealed to Biden to deploy the U.S. Navy to get humanitarian aid to Gaza. Biden ally Sen. Tim Kaine challenged the U.S. strikes on the Houthis as unlikely to stop the Red Sea attacks. And the most senior Democrat in the Senate called for Israel to “change course.” … By FARNOUSH AMIRI and ELLEN KNICKMEYER | March 5, 2024 Copyright 2024 The Associated Press.

[Hamble]

Israeli governments have made calculated efforts to foment division among Palestinian factions. All the while, they have plied the Israeli population with fear mongering and hoodwinked the international community with diversionary rhetoric occasionally hinting at the eventual possibility of a Palestinian state. Benjamin Netanyahu's Cabinet since December 29, 2022 has reinforced its settler "facts on the ground" by strategically isolating Palestinians and promoting Jewish settlements (going so far as to distribute military weapons to settlers); plus, massively developing pro-settler infrastructure.

Hamas are keeping Netanyahu in power.
His biggest supporters are the huge ultra religious group who are exempt from National Service on religious grounds(likewise Arab Israeli's).


Free the hostageS.Hamas surrender Netayahu goes.

Do the right thing for Palestinians and Israeli's.

[local]

Hamas are keeping Netanyahu in power.
His biggest supporters are the huge ultra religious group who are exempt from National Service on religious grounds(likewise Arab Israeli's).


Free the hostageS.Hamas surrender Netayahu goes.

Do the right thing for Palestinians and Israeli's.

What substance would you have to imbibe to believe in a Hamas surrender?



I imagine their numbers are growing daily.

[Hamble]

What substance would you have to imbibe to believe in a Hamas surrender?



I imagine their numbers are growing daily.

Hamas leader and family has been offered extraction from Gaza to stay alive in an Arab
Country.

Deals like that don't get much better for dead men walking.

Hamas,Paletinian Jihad etc etc have all had their leaders depleted.
already.
Will it reslly take much for them to feel abandoned?