Middle east crisis.

[Hamble]

The Likud Party: [Original Party] Platform (March 1977) The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel) a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty. b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace. … A one state solution is the uncompromising Zionists' ideal — a single 'apartheid' state, west from the River Jordan — wherein its Jewish population rules. Non-Jewish residents are relegated to second class citizenship. The bulk of the Muslim population become outcaste. They are confined to Bantustan-style enclaves; their choice: endure this discrimination, else depart! Small wonder they rebel.

Why rebel when you can have a Palestinian State for the price of not killing Jews?

[local]

Why rebel when you can have a Palestinian State for the price of not killing Jews?

Let's be honest they ain't getting a Palestinian State, killing Jews or not.


The Palestinians should Hamas eschew their power, arms and release any hostages simply go back to their "camp" there is nothing else on offer.

[Hamble]

Let's be honest they ain't getting a Palestinian State, killing Jews or not.


The Palestinians should Hamas eschew their power, arms and release any hostages simply go back to their "camp" there is nothing else on offer.

I believe they will.

The UN will finish the decision it made on partition.
Netanyahu will go.
Israel will increase security.

[sandGroundZero]

Let's be honest they ain't getting a Palestinian State, …

The question is: What do the respective parties — the UN, the U.S. and of course, Israel — mean by 'a state' in the context of the two state solution?

[Hamble]

A Palestinian State will be the only saving grace of The UN.


Muslim Colonization.

The Arab Islamist ( Muslim) Empire conquered the Persian and Byzantine Empires, also conquered lands in Egypt, Morocco, Syria and ( and Syria Palestina) Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan and Baluchistan.

[Alikado]

Let's be honest they ain't getting a Palestinian State, …

The question is: What do the respective parties — the UN, the U.S. and of course, Israel — mean by 'a state' in the context of the two state solution?

All three will have totally different ideas of a state so far apart there would be no basis for negotiations.

[local]

I believe they will.

The UN will finish the decision it made on partition.
Netanyahu will go.
Israel will increase security.

Hasn't Israel got 45 or so outstanding resolutions with the UN, I can't imagine they are the key to a settlement.

Bizarrely enough I think the answer might lie with Trump should the Americans decide to flagellate themselves again with him.

But not with his previous proposal.

Or one could dream of an entirely new US President steaming past the current two contenders

[Hamble]

Hasn't Israel got 45 or so outstanding resolutions with the UN, I can't imagine they are the key to a settlement.

Bizarrely enough I think the answer might lie with Trump should the Americans decide to flagellate themselves again with him.

But not with his previous proposal.

Or one could dream of an entirely new US President steaming past the current two contenders

There is and was no incentive for Israel to keep some resolutions pre October 7th.

Palestine in her present form would not meet official Statehood recognition for many reasons the most being Hamas took rightful leadership from Fatah by force and murder leaving rule in Gaza (Hamas)
rule in West Bank (Fatah).



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30639764

[sandGroundZero]

Israeli governments have never intended to relinquish control over Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. For a growing proportion of Israelis, retention of Judea & Samaria precludes a viable, independent Palestinian state. What Israel has offered from time to time in negotiations is limited autonomy — meaning control by Israel and including Jewish settlement and balkanization of the Palestinian population ("facts on the ground"). The longer-term objective appears to be to make life and livelihood so difficult for Palestinians that they will choose to depart Eretz Yisrael, altogether!

[sandGroundZero]

Arms exports to Israel must stop immediately: UN experts GENEVA (23 February 2024) – Any transfer of weapons or ammunition to Israel that would be used in Gaza is likely to violate international humanitarian law and must cease immediately, UN experts* warned today. “All States must ‘ensure respect’ for international humanitarian law by parties to an armed conflict, as required by 1949 Geneva Conventions and customary international law,” the experts said. “States must accordingly refrain from transferring any weapon or ammunition – or parts for them – if it is expected, given the facts or past patterns of behaviour, that they would be used to violate international law.” “Such transfers are prohibited even if the exporting State does not intend the arms to be used in violation of the law – or does not know with certainty that they would be used in such a way – as long as there is a clear risk,” they said. … The experts welcomed the suspension of arms transfers to Israel by Belgium, Italy, Spain, the Netherlands and the Japanese company Itochu Corporation. The European Union also recently discouraged arms exports to Israel. The experts urged other States to immediately halt arms transfers to Israel, including export licenses and military aid. The United States and Germany are by far the largest arms exporters and shipments have increased since 7 October 2023. Other military exporters include France, the United Kingdom, Canada and Australia. The experts noted that arms transfers to Hamas and other armed groups are also prohibited by international law, given their grave violations of international humanitarian law on 7 October 2023, including hostage-taking and subsequent indiscriminate rocket fire. The duty to “ensure respect” for humanitarian law applies “in all circumstances”, including when Israel claims it is countering terrorism. Military intelligence must also not be shared where there is a clear risk that it would be used to violate international humanitarian law. “State officials involved in arms exports may be individually criminally liable for aiding and abetting any war crimes, crimes against humanity or acts of genocide,” the experts said. “All States under the principle of universal jurisdiction, and the International Criminal Court, may be able to investigate and prosecute such crimes.” … The experts stressed that the duty to “ensure respect” additionally requires all States to do everything reasonably in their power to prevent and stop violations of international humanitarian law by Israel, particularly where a State has influence through its political, military, economic or other relations. Measures could include: Diplomatic dialogue and protests; Technical assistance to promote compliance and accountability; Sanctions on trade, finance, travel, technology or cooperation; Referral to the Security Council and the General Assembly; Proceedings at the International Court of Justice; Support for investigations by the International Criminal Court or other international legal mechanisms; National criminal investigations using universal jurisdiction and civil suits; and Requesting a meeting of the parties to the Geneva Conventions. Most of these measures are also relevant to fulfilling the duty to prevent genocide. Arms companies contributing to the production and transfer of arms to Israel and businesses investing in those companies bear their own responsibility to respect human rights, international humanitarian law and international criminal law. “They have not publicly demonstrated the heightened human rights due diligence required of them and accordingly risk complicity in violations”, the experts said. “International law does not enforce itself,” the experts said. “All States must not be complicit in international crimes through arms transfers. They must do their part to urgently end the unrelenting humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza.” Copyright © United Nations | 23 February 2024

[Styx]

There is a path forward; here are some parameters.

https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-789233

All in all, it appears to be an equitable outcome.

[Hamble]

There is a path forward; here are some parameters.

https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-789233

All in all, it appears to be an equitable outcome.

Good plan.

[sandGroundZero]

Like it or not, there will be two states — opinion Sherwin Pomerantz There is only one solution that holds any promise for a productive future for both of us, and that is to find some way to live together so that we are not constantly trying to kill each other After nearly five months of bloody war, I submit that it’s time to face the often painful reality of our future and to stop trying to kid ourselves about our ability to call all the shots about our status in this neighborhood. “Between the river and the sea,” as our enemies like to term this sliver of land on which we all live, are 7.2 million Jews and 6.9 million Arabs. That is a fact, as is the fact that none of us is going anywhere. And if none of us is going anywhere, there is only one solution that holds any promise for a productive future for both of us, and that is to find some way to live together so that we are not constantly trying to kill each other. … Therefore, we have only one choice: to put forth our own plan that creates some future sovereign entity for the Palestinians, drawing on the goodwill of the Arab states with whom we have maintained diplomatic relations, in spite of what is happening in Gaza, to assist us in this effort. Note well that no Arab country has recalled its ambassador, except for Jordan, in spite of local pressure to do so. There is a path forward; here are some parameters. ADMITTING ALL of this to ourselves, there may be a path we can suggest that would give us the security we need and deserve while putting a framework in place that stops the killing for the next 75 years (we don’t want to be too optimistic so let’s not call it a permanent peace treaty). Some possible parameters: The IDF stops the war, all the hostages are returned, and the Hamas leadership is given safe passage to some other country, never to be allowed to return to either Gaza or Judea and Samaria. All weapons of war in Gaza would be confiscated and the tunnel system would be destroyed. A coalition of Arab and Western countries would take responsibility for administering Gaza for three years to rebuild the Strip’s infrastructure and groom local leadership to become its governing authority. Israel completes the one-kilometer buffer zone on the Gaza side of the border, which would be off-limits to Gaza residents. A functioning port and airport would be built in Gaza so that residents could travel in and out without accessing Israel or Egypt. For three years, Judea and Samaria would be designated the Protectorate of Palestine, where a coalition of Arab and Western countries would perform the same role there as their counterparts in Gaza. At the end of three years, ideally, Gaza and Judea and Samaria would join together as the Sovereign State of Palestine, with civil security forces but no military and no capacity to engage in war. Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria would have the right to remain there as long as they so desired. It is anathema to the concept of peace for the Arab leadership there to say they want the area Judenrein, as previously stated, just as we would never say that no Arabs can live in Israel. Residents of these Jewish communities would hold Israeli citizenship and be eligible for Palestinian citizenship as well after the end of the three-year period should they wish to avail themselves of that option. A functioning international border would be established between the two entities, with an express lane for Israelis living in the Palestinian enclave to enter Israel and return. Details must be clarified, but the objective is clear. … Sherwin Pomerantz | February 28, 2024 Copyright © 2024 Jpost Inc. ~ Pomerantz' formula is an encapsulation of the Oslo Accords of 1993 with the October 7 2023 Hamas attack as background. It characteristically patronizes the Palestinian people, themselves, — they are not asked for a view. It expects the international community to accept Israel's "facts on the ground". And it makes the international community responsible for imposing a government on the Palestinians!

[Toodles McGinty]

Pomerantz' formula is an encapsulation of the Oslo Accords of 1993 with the October 7 2023 Hamas attack as background. It characteristically patronizes the Palestinian people, themselves, — they are not asked for a view. It expects the international community to accept Israel's "facts on the ground". And it makes the international community responsible for imposing a government on the Palestinians!

FFS, would anything other than the eradication of Israel make you happy?

That is a perfectly reasonable plan that eventually leads to a Palestinian state and self-rule after decades of chaos under the rule of murderers and terrorists.

There is no solution that doesn't initially involve the international community. It isn't going to happen. There is no Palestinian version of Sinn Fein that can step up politically and legitimise Hamas, they are self serving terrorists with no interest in peace, no interest in anything other than wiping out Israelis of all origin, no interest in anything other than ruling Palestine through fear and violence.

Palestine has to be given a chance to live in peace. To rebuild. Why don't people like you want that?

[Hamble]

FFS, would anything other than the eradication of Israel make you happy?

That is a perfectly reasonable plan that eventually leads to a Palestinian state and self-rule after decades of chaos under the rule of murderers and terrorists.

There is no solution that doesn't initially involve the international community. It isn't going to happen. There is no Palestinian version of Sinn Fein that can step up politically and legitimise Hamas, they are self serving terrorists with no interest in peace, no interest in anything other than wiping out Israelis of all origin, no interest in anything other than ruling Palestine through fear and violence.

Palestine has to be given a chance to live in peace. To rebuild. Why don't people like you want that?

I agree entirely like to add Hamas is being armed by Iran and Russia.
Israel is just a pawn in Radical Islam being the softest Western Democracy touchable without too much complaint from the rest of the World.

Who does not want peace?