Middle east crisis.

[shippy]

Strange strategy, but one that seems to be working.

Donkey good afternoon.

Unfortunately,I think that most wars have the same strategy.

If Israel is not allowed to defend its self anymore.,then this damn war will be brought to a much higher level, probably affecting more countries than was originally expected..


Then is it possible, that the West are thinking about their own position rather than the actual civilians of Gaza.
They have the Middle Eastern oil countries to keep that friendly relationship with, hence their requests are carried out.

Secondly they have a huge Muslim community which are a great influence on British politics.

Mayor of London... Muslim

Mayor of Birmingham... Muslim

Mayor of Leeds... Muslim

Mayor of Blackburn... Muslim

Mayor of Sheffield... Muslim

Mayor of Oxford... Muslim

Mayor of Luton... Muslim

Mayor of Oldham... Muslim

Mayor of Rochdale... Muslim.

I’m sure this is one of the reasons that government policy is what it is.
We have all witnessed the anti-semitism that has risen so terrifying quickly, at Universities, and in every day life. Especially in London and around Manchester.

Israel have gone so far in this war, warning Hamas at every step of the way, that without the immediate return of the hostages, there will be a continuation of the war.

It seems to me that the anti Israel propaganda has reached an all time high, with people forgetting the horrors which started this war.

[Hamble]

Don’t believe all you read in the newspapers.
I don’t believe that such a sensitive “plan” would be discussed in the presence of anyone.
You are now CP-ing old news.

I wish that all those people who are protesting, would put a word in for the hostages. It’s been reported that a further 25% of those 140 hostages are dead ..
If Hamas returned those hostages today, then something could be done to stop the war.

Because of the support Hamas are getting from the West, makes Hamas more determined to hold onto those hostages.

Golda Meir once said.
"If we have to choose between being dead and pitied, or being alive with a bad image, we'd rather be alive and have the bad image."

BBC news did a 6 month since the invasion and attack on Israel report this morning.Not one mention that Hamas were still firing rockets into Israel only the comment shell fire news in the background was from the IDF.
Israel has a right to defend herself and is paying a high price.

Quote TOI
"Four soldiers killed fighting in southern Gaza as war on Hamas hits six-month mark
Attackers emerge from tunnel, ambush troops, then escape; 604 soldiers killed since start of war on October 7, 260 of them during ground operation; 3,193 injured."

[Hamble]

Quote

"Just one in four British Muslims believe Hamas committed murder and rape in Israel
Findings show ‘failure of counter-extremism policy’ and confirm a lot of ‘work needs to be done’ to challenge old anti-Semitic tropes

Camilla Turner,
SUNDAY POLITICAL EDITOR
6 April 2024 • 7:43pm
Related Topics
Israel-Hamas War, Israel, Hamas, Anti-Semitism, Extremism, Islam

Only one in four British Muslims believe that Hamas committed murder and rape in Israel on Oct 7, a major report has found.

A poll commissioned by the Henry Jackson Society (HJS), a counter-extremism think-tank, found that 46 per cent of British Muslims said they sympathise with Hamas.

The survey, which is the largest of its kind to be carried out since the Israel-Hamas conflict began, asked a range of questions to British Muslims as well as to the general public.

Its findings come on the six-month anniversary of the Oct 7 massacre, when Hamas terrorists infiltrated Israel, killed around 1,200 citizens and took 253 people hostage.

The survey also found that just over half (52 per cent) of British Muslims want to make it illegal to show a picture of the Prophet Mohammed, compared to just 16 per cent of the public.

A third of British Muslims (32 per cent) want to see Shariah law implemented in the UK versus nine per cent of the public.

Younger and well-educated Muslims were the most likely to think Hamas did not commit atrocities on Oct 7, with the proportions rising to 47 per cent among 18 to 24-year-olds and 40 per cent among the university-educated.

Mr Mughal says findings were 'shocking but also not shocking'
Mr Mughal says findings were 'shocking but also not shocking' CREDIT: KEN RAKE/CAMERA PRESS
On Friday night, ministers were urged to step up their efforts to counter extreme narratives.

Fiyaz Mughal, who founded interfaith groups Tell Mama, Faith Matters and Muslims Against Anti-Semitism, said the findings are “shocking but also not shocking”.

He said: “Hamas is an Islamist extremist and terrorist group and has been terrorising Gazans, Israelis and liberals within society for decades.

“The sense that Hamas did not conduct massacres and rapes in Israel is atrocious because it shows a closed-off mentality to anything emanating from Israel.”

The survey was carried out by JL Partners, the polling company which was founded by James Johnson, the former Downing Street pollster.


It also found that almost half (46 per cent) of British Muslims say Jews have too much power over UK government policy, compared to 16 per cent of the general public.

Among British Muslims, 41 per cent said Jews have too much power in the media industry and 39 per cent said Jews have too much power in the UK’s financial system.

‘At risk of social cohesion problem’
Mr Mughal said: “The findings confirm that a lot of work needs to be done to inform, challenge, and address old anti-Semitic tropes that are still circulating among some of my co-religionists.

“The Government has got to provide better guidance for teachers, schools and education establishments. The investment needs to happen as soon as possible because we are at real risk of a social cohesion problem.”

Asked whether Hamas committed murder and rape in Israel on Oct 7, 24 per cent of British Muslims said they had, compared to 62 per cent of the general public.

A further 39 per cent of British Muslims said Hamas did not commit atrocities, and 37 per cent said they did not know whether they had or had not.

Alan Mendoza, the executive director of HJS, said the findings show “the failure of counter-extremism policy over the years”.

He added: “What is probably going wrong is an unwillingness to tackle this kind of extremism for fear of being labelled Islamophobic or racist. There is a reluctance to call it out in the same way that people are very happy to call out far-Right extremism.

“The Government needs to find a way of supporting and strengthening the voice of moderate Muslims and drive the extremist narrative to the sidelines.”

A Government spokesperson said: “We have recently set out a series of measures which will promote social cohesion and counter religious hatred. Our plan will tackle division in our communities and ensure that we are protecting our democratic freedoms across the country.”










https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...-hamas-israel/

[Alikado]

Donkey good afternoon.

Unfortunately,I think that most wars have the same strategy.

If Israel is not allowed to defend its self anymore.,then this damn war will be brought to a much higher level, probably affecting more countries than was originally expected..


Then is it possible, that the West are thinking about their own position rather than the actual civilians of Gaza.
They have the Middle Eastern oil countries to keep that friendly relationship with, hence their requests are carried out.

Secondly they have a huge Muslim community which are a great influence on British politics.

Mayor of London... Muslim

Mayor of Birmingham... Muslim

Mayor of Leeds... Muslim

Mayor of Blackburn... Muslim

Mayor of Sheffield... Muslim

Mayor of Oxford... Muslim

Mayor of Luton... Muslim

Mayor of Oldham... Muslim

Mayor of Rochdale... Muslim.

I’m sure this is one of the reasons that government policy is what it is.
We have all witnessed the anti-semitism that has risen so terrifying quickly, at Universities, and in every day life. Especially in London and around Manchester.

Israel have gone so far in this war, warning Hamas at every step of the way, that without the immediate return of the hostages, there will be a continuation of the war.

It seems to me that the anti Israel propaganda has reached an all time high, with people forgetting the horrors which started this war.

In the eyes of most people it is nothing to do with Israel defending itself it is about the way they are doing it.

[Styx]

In the eyes of most people it is nothing to do with Israel defending itself it is about the way they are doing it.

It is terrible and regrettable when innocent people are killed, but this is the reality of war.The Israelis are in an impossible situation because they aren't fighting an enemy with the courage to wear a military uniform.

What should they do?

[sandGroundZero]

Don’t believe all you read in the newspapers.
I don’t believe that such a sensitive “plan” would be discussed in the presence of anyone.
You are now CP-ing old news.
…

I suspect, shippy, that you did not bother to follow the link. Jewish Currents is a [U.S.] Jewish publication and the commentary by Etan Nechin. Bibiism After Bibi was published after the inconclusive Israeli election of September, 2019. Posters on this forum & thread who suppose that the current war and the divisions among Israel's Jewish voters are down to Benjamin Netanyahu and that once he is gone there will be resolution and reconciliation of several fronts are probably deluding themselves.

…
I wish that all those people who are protesting, would put a word in for the hostages. It’s been reported that a further 25% of those 140 hostages are dead ..
If Hamas returned those hostages today, then something could be done to stop the war.

Because of the support Hamas are getting from the West, makes Hamas more determined to hold onto those hostages.

Golda Meir once said.
"If we have to choose between being dead and pitied, or being alive with a bad image, we'd rather be alive and have the bad image."

What you cannot see, or perhaps just choose not to accept is that Zionism has been instrumental in bringing perennial crises on Israeli citizens and residents. Golda Meir was a canny politician. However, "[choosing] between being dead and pitied" was not the real choice in her time, or since. The choice was between a just settlement with the displaced Arab population of Palestine, or maximizing for the modern Jewish State of Israeli all the territory claimed as ancient Biblical Eretz Yisrael.

[local]

Let's squash this myth that the release of the hostages will end the war.


Benjamin Netantyahu has said a hostage deal with Hamas would not stop the Israeli invasion of Rafah, as the two sides edged closer to a temporary ceasefire agreement.


Being honest with ourselves we know that the endless siren calls for Hamas to expose themselves and "fight" in a more "traditional" manner would be a short suicide note.

There are so many who have openly declared that they are waiting to occupy the prime areas of Gaza and increase the illegal settlements.

The Hamas rats are many and they and the people who support them are being offered nothing, why would they consider stopping.
Their people are being starved and killed on a daily basis their homes destroyed.

Somehow the ghastly murdering scum who went into Israel and descended upon innocents like rabid dogs are giving the world a reality check.

[local]

A very worrying poll from the Henry Jackson society;



Only one in four British Muslims believe Hamas committed murder and rape in Israel on October 7th



British Muslims have positive view of Hamas overall – Younger Muslims are the most likely to think Hamas did not commit atrocities on October 7th
Almost half of British Muslims say Jews have too much power over UK government policy
British Muslims would back removal of an MP if they took a different stance on Israel/Palestine to them
Younger Muslims think it is more acceptable than not to protest outside an MP’s home if they differed from them on Israel/Palestine.


A new landmark poll of British Muslims, the first of its kind since the Israel-Gaza conflict began, has found that only 24% of British Muslims believe Hamas committed murder and rape in Israel on October 7th.


https://henryjacksonsociety.org/2024...kson%20Society


The rest is not very good.

[shippy]

Let's squash this myth that the release of the hostages will end the war.


Benjamin Netantyahu has said a hostage deal with Hamas would not stop the Israeli invasion of Rafah, as the two sides edged closer to a temporary ceasefire agreement.


Being honest with ourselves we know that the endless siren calls for Hamas to expose themselves and "fight" in a more "traditional" manner would be a short suicide note.

There are so many who have openly declared that they are waiting to occupy the prime areas of Gaza and increase the illegal settlements.

The Hamas rats are many and they and the people who support them are being offered nothing, why would they consider stopping.
Their people are being starved and killed on a daily basis their homes destroyed.

Somehow the ghastly murdering scum who went into Israel and descended upon innocents like rabid dogs are giving the world a reality check.

Local good evening.

Like most PMs, Netanyahu is not speaking for the majority of Israel’s. Population. I would judge, sitting in the wings, that Netanyahu himself has realized that the hole he has dug is far too deep to climb out of.

Over 600 young IDF lads have fallen so far. Boys disabled for life. For such a small country that’s a very high percentage.

There may be news coming out of Israel later today or tomorrow, that two government hardliners , Smotrich and Ben Gvir may be leaving the government ..clap clap.
Their reason, they want to push ahead into Rafah. At this stage I don’t see it happening..For the survival of Israel I really hope it doesn’t, although it could go either way.

These two men, who have never spent one day in the IDF, yet their military decisions, (they believe ) are the best for Israel.

Local we do agree on many points. I’m afraid, that even with the release of those Israeli hostages, the war with Israel’s neighbours will never end.

A Muslim friend of mine once said to me, that a Muslim has a long memory, and will always find the Achilles heel of his enemy. Even as an Arab feuding with a neighbouring village, will kill his enemies son, rather than the feuding Father.
That happens a lot in Israel, between Muslim families.

I really hope that Hamas will eventually be eradicated and a decent leader will be installed in Gaza, who will give that area chance to bloom into a proper decent place for the civilians to live in peacefully .

[Styx]

The Hamas rats are many and they and the people who support them are being offered nothing, why would they consider stopping.

Hamas and its supporters seek
to erase the State of Israel from the map.

Quote: "Israel is a country that has no place on our land. We must remove it because it constitutes a security, military and political catastrophe to the Arab and Islamic nation. We are not ashamed to say this."

Details: The terrorist called the existence of Israel "illogical" and added that it should be wiped off "all the Palestinian lands."

Asked if that meant the total destruction of Israel, Hamad replied: "Yes, of course."

https://news.yahoo.com/hamas-member-...l?guccounter=1

What should we offer them?

[sandGroundZero]

Raja Shehadeh … By now several things have become clear. The first is the re-emergence in Israel of the Jewish ultra right; settlers and Jewish supremacists with their uncompromising expansionist agenda. It was as though this recalcitrant group was waiting for the opportunity to accelerate the pursuit of its colonial objectives. Already, not only is the Gaza Strip transformed but so is the West Bank, fragmented as it is by roadblocks and locked iron gates restricting access to villages, and settlers continuing to expel Palestinians from their land. As for Gaza, plans are already being prepared for settling the north by Israeli Jews. For 75 years we Palestinians have been demanding Israeli recognition, if not an apology and amends, for the horrors committed against us during the first Nakba of 1948, when more than 700,000 were forced out of their homes in what became Israel. Now the tragedy has been compounded. Which makes me feel that I spent the last 50 years of my life getting used to the loss of the Palestine of my parents; and that I might spend the remaining years of my life trying to get used to the loss of Palestine in its entirety. This war has exposed the profound weakness of the secular liberals in Israel and their near total rallying behind the supposed might of the Israeli army, while failing to consider the longer-term consequences of their army’s murderous excesses. There is a distressing lack of readiness among the Israeli Jewish population to pursue peace with its neighbours, and an almost unchallenged commitment to the use of force to destroy Palestinians regardless of the human cost. One Israeli friend told me despairingly, “I’m a minority in a minority of a minority.” … Raja Shehadeh writing in theguardian.com

[local]

Hamas and its supporters seek
to erase the State of Israel from the map.

Quote: "Israel is a country that has no place on our land. We must remove it because it constitutes a security, military and political catastrophe to the Arab and Islamic nation. We are not ashamed to say this."

Details: The terrorist called the existence of Israel "illogical" and added that it should be wiped off "all the Palestinian lands."

Asked if that meant the total destruction of Israel, Hamad replied: "Yes, of course."

https://news.yahoo.com/hamas-member-...l?guccounter=1

What should we offer them?

One talks the talk the other is carrying it out.

The pointless repeat of the extremists soundbites from either side does not help.
Neither sides extremists want the other side in any shape or form.



Withdraw, equality and freedom for the people of Gaza

[Hamble]

One talks the talk the other is carrying it out.

The pointless repeat of the extremists soundbites from either side does not help.
Neither sides extremists want the other side in any shape or form.



Withdraw, equality and freedom for the people of Gaza

What about the over 120 hostages including women and babies?

What about the Hamas terrorists still embedded in Gaza?

What about UNWRA funding terroists and teaching racism and hate to homosexuals in Gaza schools?

Will you still agree to fund terrorism for the next 50 years?


https://www.timesofisrael.com/relati...unrwa-funding/

[sandGroundZero]

Israel's conduct of its war against Hamas is certainly killing women, children, elderly non-combatants and it has killed an as yet unknown number of hostages. The toll of the dead will continue to rise as conditions permit the retrieval of bodies from collapsed buildings. Add to all that the long-term impacts of malnutrition and psychological trauma …! What are Prime Minister Netanyahu's real objectives? Does Israel's deployment of overwhelming force achieve the return of hostages and secure Israel's future? FILE - A woman waves flags in support of Palestinians in Gaza during a protest in Istanbul, Turkey, Friday, April 5, 2024. Turkey and Israel announced tit-for-tat trade barriers on Tuesday, April 9, 2024, as relations between them further deteriorated amid the war in Gaza. Turkey, a staunch critic of Israel’s military actions in Gaza, first announced that it was restricting exports of 54 types of products to Israel with immediate effect. The products include aluminum, steel, construction products, jet fuel and chemical fertilizers. Responding to the Turkish trade restrictions, Israel said it was preparing a ban on products from Turkey. (AP Photo/Khalil Hamra, File) — It would seem NOT!

[Hector]

Blinken is talking sense.