Originally Posted by libraryguy

I do think the "forward box" as you call it adds to the danger. A cyclist can be riding up the inside when the traffic starts moving and a driver has the possibility of not seeing them. Bikes need to be directly behind (but visible) the vehicle in front of them and should pass others on the right. No motor vehicle driver would attempt to get on the left of someone as they're turning left.

A cyclist needs to think "If I was as wide as a car can I get through that gap?" and if the answer is no, then they shouldn't be moving.

The 'box' is there to get bikes out of a trucks (and others) left side blind spot....After all, if there's a cyclist positioned smack-dab in front of you, you're going to find him/her hard to ignore. It also allows the rider, once there, to move across the box to the right if he/she's turning right.

If traffic starts moving whilst rider is still travelling along the cycle-lane, he/she should use a bit of sense (as I and many riders do) and not invade the left-hand side of the next vehicle ahead. Because there's a chance the driver may not check their left mirror and could be about to turn left without indicating.

Originally Posted by The PNP

The 'box' is there to get bikes out of a trucks (and others) left side blind spot....After all, if there's a cyclist positioned smack-dab in front of you, you're going to find him/her hard to ignore. It also allows the rider, once there, to move across the box to the right if he/she's turning right.

If traffic starts moving whilst rider is still travelling along the cycle-lane, he/she should use a bit of sense (as I and many riders do) and not invade the left-hand side of the next vehicle ahead. Because there's a chance the driver may not check their left mirror and could be about to turn left without indicating.

At last, your second paragraph IS the problem, too many cyclists will still barrel up the nearside of turning traffic, then it somehow becomes the driver at fault.

Cyclists in front aren’t a problem as such, if they can be seen, drivers can avoid them.

Originally Posted by silver fox

At last, your second paragraph IS the problem, too many cyclists will still barrel up the nearside of turning traffic, then it somehow becomes the driver at fault.

Cyclists in front aren’t a problem as such, if they can be seen, drivers can avoid them.

Technically, it is the drivers fault, if they cut-up a cyclist who is on their nearside......Driver should always indicate etc before moving left as per the driving test, i.e. mirror - signal - manouevre.

By doing so, he gives adequate notice to approaching cyclists, he can see if there's a cyclist/s coming and he can make his move when the bike has gone through. Of course, in the real world, it doesn't always happen like that - and people do get knocked off.

Originally Posted by The PNP

Technically, it is the drivers fault, if they cut-up a cyclist who is on their nearside......Driver should always indicate etc before moving left as per the driving test, i.e. mirror - signal - manouevre.

By doing so, he gives adequate notice to approaching cyclists, he can see if there's a cyclist/s coming and he can make his move when the bike has gone through. Of course, in the real world, it doesn't always happen like that - and people do get knocked off.

Drivers are NOT cutting up a cyclist who tries to undertake left turning traffic, or do you think traffic should stop when a cyclist is trying to ride up the nearside of a vehicle?

You keep blabbering on about drivers indicating, the instances I have personally seen the drivers were clearly indicating a left turn, does that deter or even register with too many, some clearly not

Originally Posted by silver fox

You keep blabbering on about drivers indicating, the instances I have personally seen the drivers were clearly indicating a left turn, does that deter or even register with too many, some clearly not

Putting a left (or right) indicator on, does not give the driver the right to begin his/her manouevre. It only indicates their intention to change direction as-and-when the way becomes clear.....An experienced trucker I know, describes indicating as 'calling for road'.

Originally Posted by local

cycling is a great exercise but not a safe form of transport especially for children.

Saw a young boy, looked about 9 years old, cycling to school yesterday morning, rush hour, on Duke St on the road overtaking parked cars, helmet on.
Looked odd seeing one so young doing that but isn't that exactly what he should have been doing if people dont want them on the pavement or want cycle lanes? I was half impressed and half worried for his safety but I was doing exactly the same thing myself without a helmet on 40 years ago

Originally Posted by salus.populi

Saw a young boy, looked about 9 years old, cycling to school yesterday morning, rush hour, on Duke St on the road overtaking parked cars, helmet on.
Looked odd seeing one so young doing that but isn't that exactly what he should have been doing if people dont want them on the pavement or want cycle lanes? I was half impressed and half worried for his safety but I was doing exactly the same thing myself without a helmet on 40 years ago

I also used to ride to primary school (without a helmet) or would walk or sometimes take the bus. I never saw any helmets in the bike shops. You could ride mopeds etc without helmets. I don't think even professional cyclists wore helmets back then - just a cap with short peak!

However, back in my younger days the traffic was a lot lighter and I don't recall idiots rat-running the back streets at high speed either. The few cars that were about, were much less powerful than the missiles people seem to drive nowadays.

Originally Posted by The PNP

Putting a left (or right) indicator on, does not give the driver the right to begin his/her manouevre. It only indicates their intention to change direction as-and-when the way becomes clear.....An experienced trucker I know, describes indicating as 'calling for road'.

You are totally obtuse, if you or anyone else is behind a vehicle which clearly indicates a turn, no-one in their right mind would or should attempt to overtake or undertake that vehicle, no-one will knowingly make a manoeuvre without checking, but in your view the turning vehicle should give way to traffic coming from behind, how far must the approaching vehicle or bike be away b fore any vehicle can actually move.

Your trucker is talking about indicating to make an overtake and yes that is calling for road or space, nothing to do with making a turn at a junction.

Originally Posted by silver fox

You are totally obtuse, if you or anyone else is behind a vehicle which clearly indicates a turn, no-one in their right mind would or should attempt to overtake or undertake that vehicle, no-one will knowingly make a manoeuvre without checking, but in your view the turning vehicle should give way to traffic coming from behind, how far must the approaching vehicle or bike be away b fore any vehicle can actually move.

Your trucker is talking about indicating to make an overtake and yes that is calling for road or space, nothing to do with making a turn at a junction.

I'm stuck in the wrong lane on a motorway, with a lane restriction ahead and have been sat there fuming now for several minutes. I've got my indicator on, to move across to the lane that's open - but that lane's full of fast-moving traffic and nobody's letting me in......Would you say my indicator gives me the right to cut in front of and very probably collide with someone?

Originally Posted by The PNP

I'm stuck in the wrong lane on a motorway, with a lane restriction ahead and have been sat there fuming now for several minutes. I've got my indicator on, to move across to the lane that's open - but that lane's full of fast-moving traffic and nobody's letting me in......Would you say my indicator gives me the right to cut in front of and very probably collide with someone?

That sounds like an extremely unlikely situation, however IF it was to occur, you would certainly been in the wrong for not looking far enough ahead, thus avoiding the situation you had got yourself in to.

Originally Posted by justbecause

That sounds like an extremely unlikely situation, however IF it was to occur, you would certainly been in the wrong for not looking far enough ahead, thus avoiding the situation you had got yourself in to.

Three lanes become two and fair warning is given. But then further on, it's down to just one lane and you find yourself stuck in the wrong one.....Sometimes you don't know in advance, which is going to be the best to take.

The point I was trying to make to sf, is about who has right of way. If you intend changing lanes or need to cut across a lane, whatever the circumstance. Then surely you must use mirror, put indicator on and wait till it's clear, I.e. that there's nothing approaching from behind in the neighbouring lane, before you change direction?

Originally Posted by The PNP

Three lanes become two and fair warning is given. But then further on, it's down to just one lane and you find yourself stuck in the wrong one.....Sometimes you don't know in advance, which is going to be the best to take.

The point I was trying to make to sf, is about who has right of way. If you intend changing lanes or need to cut across a lane, whatever the circumstance. Then surely you must use mirror, put indicator on and wait till it's clear, I.e. that there's nothing approaching from behind in the neighbouring lane, before you change direction?

You aren't making your point at all, requesting clear space from other road users in a motorway or multi carriageway is nothing like the circumstances under discussion, by the way let me know the next time you come across traffic lights and junctions on a motorway.

You're wriggling like crazy because you know exactly what I'm talking about, if any other road user is alongside and then the driver makes an unannounced turn of course that driver is wrong, but if a vehicle is indicating to make a legitimate turn, anyone attempting to overtake or undertake that vehicles is wrong and a bloody fool

Originally Posted by silver fox

You aren't making your point at all, requesting clear space from other road users in a motorway or multi carriageway is nothing like the circumstances under discussion, by the way let me know the next time you come across traffic lights and junctions on a motorway.

You're wriggling like crazy because you know exactly what I'm talking about, if any other road user is alongside and then the driver makes an unannounced turn of course that driver is wrong, but if a vehicle is indicating to make a legitimate turn, anyone attempting to overtake or undertake that vehicles is wrong and a bloody fool

What's the difference? Regardless the type of road, cutting across an adjacent live lane without checking it's safe to do so is wrong (whatever is moving on it, car, truck or bike). The fact you're indicating doesn't give you the right to proceed, unless traffic in that lane slows and gives you a flash to say it's ok (btw that's not in official Highway Code).

Originally Posted by silver fox

You aren't making your point at all, requesting clear space from other road users in a motorway or multi carriageway is nothing like the circumstances under discussion, by the way let me know the next time you come across traffic lights and junctions on a motorway.

You're wriggling like crazy because you know exactly what I'm talking about, if any other road user is alongside and then the driver makes an unannounced turn of course that driver is wrong, but if a vehicle is indicating to make a legitimate turn, anyone attempting to overtake or undertake that vehicles is wrong and a bloody fool

You’re wasting your time SF, if brains were dynamite, the idiot wouldn’t have enough to blow his helmet off.

Originally Posted by The PNP

What's the difference? Regardless the type of road, cutting across an adjacent live lane without checking it's safe to do so is wrong (whatever is moving on it, car, truck or bike). The fact you're indicating doesn't give you the right to proceed, unless traffic in that lane slows and gives you a flash to say it's ok (btw that's not in official Highway Code).

Cycle lanes do not go through junctions, because it is utter stupidity to do so, therefore there is NO live lane.