Face it - the NHS is on the brink

[said]

Last year in excess of £140bn was spent on health across the UK - more than 10 times the figure that was ploughed in 60 years ago.Governments over the years have had to invest more and more of the public purse into it. Today 30p out of every £1 spent on services goes on health.

Even during years of deep austerity in the UK, extra money has been found for the health service - £8bn more this parliament in England alone. Yet it seems no matter how much is invested, it's still not enough. The NHS is creaking at the seams.
When there's perfect harmony between the numbers arriving and leaving, 95% of patients will be dealt with in four hours.


But this isn't happening. You have to go back to the summer of 2015 for the last time it was met in England, with performance deteriorating markedly year on year.

When the NHS was created, life expectancy was 13 years shorter than it is now. The average 65-year-old costs the NHS 2.5 times more than the average 30-year-old. An 85-year-old costs more than five times as much.BBC NEWS

Every population is aging - it is what happens. I have not yet come across a population which is growing younger apart from those nations where there are large families and on average the number of young people outnumber the older population.

Considering that every year, more and more nurses graduate from University in the UK and that the NHS employ more and more professional staff every year - Nurses should serve apprenticeships instead of being told that they are 'professional' which demands higher pay. The NHS also employ a great number of overseas staff. The number of ambulances and ambulance staff have also increased over the years.

Are the BBC claims above true or is this an excuse for Private healthcare to be brought in as common practice?

[jamyramy]

anything from the british bullsh.t company should be veiwed as propagander porn .their worsethan pedos ,most of their runners are!well now ere in the grip of government of occupation ,the nhs will be toast soon.

[Toodles McGinty]

The average 65-year-old costs the NHS 2.5 times more than the average 30-year-old. An 85-year-old costs more than five times as much.BBC NEWS

A 65 year old has been paying in much longer than a 30 year old. Perhaps the government should consider raising tax & NI, thus offsetting some of the costs.

Considering that every year, more and more nurses graduate from University in the UK and that the NHS employ more and more professional staff every year - Nurses should serve apprenticeships instead of being told that they are 'professional' which demands higher pay. The NHS also employ a great number of overseas staff. The number of ambulances and ambulance staff have also increased over the years.

Even nurses that don't graduate from uni are trained to degree level. Their in-job training never ends. Why the hell shouldn't they be told they are 'professional'? That's exactly what they are.

Although next time you have to attend hospital, please do tell your nurse she isn't 'professional'. Or that she doesn't deserve the pay she's getting.

I'm sure they'll treat you as 'professionally as you deserve.

[local]

No, it isn't on the brink Professor P


As a share of GDP, the UK spends far less on capital in health care than comparable OECD countries.
In 2016, the UK spent 0.27% of GDP on capital in health care, compared to 0.51% in the OECD
Low capital spending has meant NHS Trusts are unable to purchase the newest technology, while also facing a significant and rising maintenance backlog.

[Polly Trott]

" When the NHS was created, life expectancy was 13 years shorter than it is now. The average 65-year-old costs the NHS 2.5 times more than the average 30-year-old. An 85-year-old costs more than five times as much.BBC NEWS"

If social care wasn't privately funded (albeit with means tested subsidy) how much would an 85 year old cost the state?

[said]

A 65 year old has been paying in much longer than a 30 year old. Perhaps the government should consider raising tax & NI, thus offsetting some of the costs.




Even nurses that don't graduate from uni are trained to degree level. Their in-job training never ends. Why the hell shouldn't they be told they are 'professional'? That's exactly what they are.

Although next time you have to attend hospital, please do tell your nurse she isn't 'professional'. Or that she doesn't deserve the pay she's getting.

I'm sure they'll treat you as 'professionally as you deserve.

Universities cannot train nurses to care for the public nor can they teach nurses the way of the world. This is a task for which an apprenticeship is called for. No, there should not be 'Professional' nurses. Nurses should be classed as 'qualified' after a certain number of years in the profession. If you apply the title of 'professional' due to a University degree, it is wrong because they have had insufficient training. Nurses should be allowed to continue in their training to achieve a higher status such as a Doctor, Consultant or Management if they wish to do so.

If you have kept up with current affairs - you will have read that a huge number of nurses are disillusioned with their employment. This has been going on for a great number of years and affects the teaching profession equally. Under an apprenticeship, the problem would not exist because each would have their own levels of experience set out from the word go.

I have had too much experience with hospitals unfortunately, such places are not conducive to enjoyment - however, I have learned a great deal, though not everything, about the staff who work in them, the management and the economics of the provision of healthcare.

I agree with your first paragraph however, older people have been paying into the service for far longer than those half their age and I disagree that the NHS should be free to anyone from overseas. When people come to the UK to settle, the first thing they do is to ring up for a National Insurance card that allows them immediate access to free health care. I would suggest that this is unfair and that free health care should not apply until they have been a working resident for ten years.

In Poland: "You may be entitled to state healthcare paid for by the UK if you’re a Polish resident and receive a UK State Pension." Govt.UK

[said]

" When the NHS was created, life expectancy was 13 years shorter than it is now. The average 65-year-old costs the NHS 2.5 times more than the average 30-year-old. An 85-year-old costs more than five times as much.BBC NEWS"

If social care wasn't privately funded (albeit with means tested subsidy) how much would an 85 year old cost the state?

FULL FACT If you choose to be impressed by their members....state

How much of the NHS budget is spent on people over 85?
17 JULY 2018
WHAT WAS CLAIMED
55% of the NHS budget is spent on the over 85s.
OUR VERDICT
We can't find any data to support this. Analysis by the Institute for Fiscal Studies suggests that by 2021/22 around 10% of health spending across the UK will go on those aged 85 plus.

“55% of NHS budget is spent on over 85s.”
Gina Miller, 6 July 2018


Note the author!

[said]

No, it isn't on the brink Professor P


As a share of GDP, the UK spends far less on capital in health care than comparable OECD countries.
In 2016, the UK spent 0.27% of GDP on capital in health care, compared to 0.51% in the OECD
Low capital spending has meant NHS Trusts are unable to purchase the newest technology, while also facing a significant and rising maintenance backlog.

In Poland, 10% of everyone's earnings goes to healthcare. In the UK it is only 4.5%.

[local]

In Poland, 10% of everyone's earnings goes to healthcare. In the UK it is only 4.5%.

So that kyboshes your original hypothesis.

[said]

So that kyboshes your original hypothesis.

A hypothesis is an educated guess from which reasoning is intended to evolve - so on two accounts there, 1. I do not know it is a hypothesis since it has been published by the BBC (could even be a fairy story) and 2. it is not my statement to claim.

Most of the post was copied and pasted as shown (C&P as it is commonly referred to, which translates for most of the internet into cr..p! My only claim to fame is the question posed at the end.

This could be a really interesting site if people had the ability to discuss all topics rationally.

[Alikado]

Universities cannot train nurses to care for the public nor can they teach nurses the way of the world. This is a task for which an apprenticeship is called for. No, there should not be 'Professional' nurses. Nurses should be classed as 'qualified' after a certain number of years in the profession. If you apply the title of 'professional' due to a University degree, it is wrong because they have had insufficient training. Nurses should be allowed to continue in their training to achieve a higher status such as a Doctor, Consultant or Management if they wish to do so.

If you have kept up with current affairs - you will have read that a huge number of nurses are disillusioned with their employment. This has been going on for a great number of years and affects the teaching profession equally. Under an apprenticeship, the problem would not exist because each would have their own levels of experience set out from the word go.

I have had too much experience with hospitals unfortunately, such places are not conducive to enjoyment - however, I have learned a great deal, though not everything, about the staff who work in them, the management and the economics of the provision of healthcare.

I agree with your first paragraph however, older people have been paying into the service for far longer than those half their age and I disagree that the NHS should be free to anyone from overseas. When people come to the UK to settle, the first thing they do is to ring up for a National Insurance card that allows them immediate access to free health care. I would suggest that this is unfair and that free health care should not apply until they have been a working resident for ten years.

In Poland: "You may be entitled to state healthcare paid for by the UK if you’re a Polish resident and receive a UK State Pension." Govt.UK

You are displaying profound ignorance of how nurses are now trained, they now have a far more in depth training than they had 'in the good old days' and many are now more educated than Doctors were at the inception of the NHS, many also continue or return to course to study for further specialist qualifications

https://www.edgehill.ac.uk/courses/n...urse-in-depth/

Yes many are disillusioned with the Nursing Profession, it is hardly surprising when after years of 'Pay Restraint' and the austerity inflicted on the NHS then working their guts out during the Pandemic without proper protection to then be told they are only worth a 1% pay rise.

Yes people do apply for a National Insurance number when arriving in this country this is to enable them to work and yes they do have access to Health Care this is because we have reciprocal arrangements with many countries, if we don't then the patient is charged for all but emergency care.

[local]

A hypothesis is an educated guess from which reasoning is intended to evolve - so on two accounts there, 1. I do not know it is a hypothesis since it has been published by the BBC (could even be a fairy story) and 2. it is not my statement to claim.

Most of the post was copied and pasted as shown (C&P as it is commonly referred to, which translates for most of the internet into cr..p! My only claim to fame is the question posed at the end.

This could be a really interesting site if people had the ability to discuss all topics rationally.

Erh sorry to upset your flow Prof but YOU did title your post;


Face it - the NHS is on the brink

Which wherever you get it from is a hypothesis you have posted, the supposition that despite the spending it's on the brink, yet not too many posts later you tell us we spend half what Poland spends.

So the brink it appears is somewhat notional,
and that is why, if you had any formal education above the basics, they tell you that the correct attribution of sources is so important,

Especially in the sciences........ Prof.


What was that you were saying about the ability to discuss

[said]

Erh sorry to upset your flow Prof but YOU did title your post;


Face it - the NHS is on the brink

Which wherever you get it from is a hypothesis you have posted, the supposition that despite the spending it's on the brink, yet not too many posts later you tell us we spend half what Poland spends.

So the brink it appears is somewhat notional,
and that is why, if you had any formal education above the basics, they tell you that the correct attribution of sources is so important,

Especially in the sciences........ Prof.


What was that you were saying about the ability to discuss

The title of the topic is related to the C & P report from the BBC who are of the impression that the NHS days are numbered. This was quoted for consideration - knowing full well that a group of the posters on QL regard the BBC as God. The following question leaves it open for discussion.

I do not know you, I have no interest in what you do or do not know. That does not matter, so why should what I know matter to you? Is it because you have some allegiance with a few posters on QL who cherish and cling to a superior standing whether they deserve it or not, who dispute everything I say with personal abuse because they feel I am a threat to them? I do believe that you were faced with the same a while back - your posts have changed a lot. What? Have you joined the 'If you can't beat them - join them' club?

I most certainly can state that I do not have the same level of knowledge which a few of the other posters on here have, and make a lot of noise by which to emphasise it.

I am hopefully among the normal posters, bless them, who have no greater interest on this site other than entertainment and learning about events which appeal to them, as opposed to stirring a cauldron and chanting evil spells.

Get back on track and we can have beneficial discussions.

[local]

How can you have a "beneficial conversation" with someone who makes ludicrous claims backed with a clear misunderstanding of the science.

You claim to have "educated hundreds" yet you don't attribute your quotes nor distinguish them from your opinion, that is the absolute basics for an educator.

You seek some sort of credibility for your views by making ludicrous claims about yourself yet the evidence simply doesn't support it.

I and others have repeatedly upended so many of your claims with fact and you just ignore it.

Your are like the eco-dunce, intent on spreading your distorted harmful views for your own aims, whatever they are.

[Little Londoner]

No need to worry Boris will engineer the age old solution to the NHS funding a damn good war that gets the population down.

China, after trying to kill half the worlds population with Covid, are spoiling to flex their muscles with a good megalomaniacal show of power starting with Taiwan then THE WORLD. If that's what Rice does to the brain cells it's off my diet.
All these Chinese take aways and restaurants just sleeping ready for the word to start a new flavouring which will decimate even more than their covid did.

Ooh I've just had a peek into Said's world and come over with an attack of the vapours.