Project Fear - duh!

[Stuartli]

I don't believe there was much difference in bike use between most European (inc UK) countries at that time. Where NL diverged, was in the early '70's when parents became angry about their kids being killed cycling on-road (500 dead children per year!). This was because there wasn't anything like the separate safe infrastructure they now enjoy, coupled with a huge rise in car ownership over the previous decade.

For more on the Dutch parents 1971 campaign: 'Stop de Kindermoord' (stop the child murders) just Google it, there's plenty to read. It all began with one person, a journalist who is said to have coined the phrase. In the end the Dutch Govt relented and agreed to take action, which came in the form of initiating a programme of constructing separate cycle-paths. A programme which continues even to this day.

For someone who claims to have experienced Dutch cycling facilities, your lack of knowledge of when the country set about improving facilities for cyclists is baffling; dedicated cycle lanes were being built, this link indicates, in the 1890s:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclin...he_Netherlands

[The PNP]

For someone who claims to have experienced Dutch cycling facilities, your lack of knowledge of when the country set about improving facilities for cyclists is baffling; dedicated cycle lanes were being built, this link indicates, in the 1890s:

True, there was infrastructure, but nothing on the scale or of the quality you now find. It's not unusual at all, to see earlier cycle infrastructure being ripped out, as considered inadequate. To be replaced with something significantly superior, following lessons learnt.

[Stuartli]

True, there was infrastructure, but nothing on the scale or of the quality you now find. It's not unusual at all, to see earlier cycle infrastructure being ripped out, as considered inadequate. To be replaced with something significantly superior, following lessons learnt.

That is not what I said. Try reading my comment again.

[silver fox]

A) Lol....you have a fertile imagination!

B) Cycle usage wasn't only for recreation back then, far from it. E.g. it was not uncommon early morning, to see workers cycling past my '50's Birkdale bedroom window, with an old gasmask bag slung over their shoulder, as lunchbox to carry their butties. Come to think of it, even the (gas)lamplighter would do his rounds on a bike.

I don't believe there was much difference in bike use between most European (inc UK) countries at that time. Where NL diverged, was in the early '70's when parents became angry about their kids being killed cycling on-road (500 dead children per year!). This was because there wasn't anything like the separate safe infrastructure they now enjoy, coupled with a huge rise in car ownership over the previous decade.

For more on the Dutch parents 1971 campaign: 'Stop de Kindermoord' (stop the child murders) just Google it, there's plenty to read. It all began with one person, a journalist who is said to have coined the phrase. In the end the Dutch Govt relented and agreed to take action, which came in the form of initiating a programme of constructing separate cycle-paths. A programme which continues even to this day.

Of course a lot of people cycled to work back in the day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, they had no other option, yes let's go back to the "good old days" when most had to find work close to home, no matter what the job was, when most were stuck in whichever pigeon hole their location put them, when so many lived in company homes and their very existence depended on that employer.

The ability to travel to work has been one of the greatest enablers for ordinary people to get better jobs, to advance in a career of their choice, rather than having to accept what was on the doorstep.

[The PNP]

That is not what I said. Try reading my comment again.

Not quite sure what you're getting at....I realise there was cycle infrastructure in NL pre-1971, but as far as keeping kids safe riding to/from school etc, it clearly wasn't up to the task.

One of my first experiences of riding in NL was in the '70's, when I bought a bike from a big store in Rotterdam and had to get it back to my ship, berthed on the other side of the river. The Metro turned me back at the barriers, re-directing me to an amazing cycle tunnel under the river.....Imagine my surprise, a mini 'Mersey Tunnel' just for bikes! When I rode through, it was clearly not a new thing, as the tiling looked like it was from the '30's or even earlier.

[Little Londoner]

Of course a lot of people cycled to work back in the day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, they had no other option, yes let's go back to the "good old days" when most had to find work close to home, no matter what the job was, when most were stuck in whichever pigeon hole their location put them, when so many lived in company homes and their very existence depended on that employer.

The ability to travel to work has been one of the greatest enablers for ordinary people to get better jobs, to advance in a career of their choice, rather than having to accept what was on the doorstep.

He doesn't understand bless him, he thinks everyone works a short bike ride from home.

[seivad]

A) Lol....you have a fertile imagination!

B) Cycle usage wasn't only for recreation back then, far from it. E.g. it was not uncommon early morning, to see workers cycling past my '50's Birkdale bedroom window, with an old gasmask bag slung over their shoulder, as lunchbox to carry their butties. Come to think of it, even the (gas)lamplighter would do his rounds on a bike.

Read my post again and tell me where I said that by the 50s cycling was only for recreation. I said that as soon as cars became affordable, people bought them. I certainly didn't mean that happened during the 50s, because it certainly did not.

[seivad]

He doesn't understand bless him, he thinks everyone works a short bike ride from home.

And everyone goes to work dressed like a chimney sweep!

[said]

He doesn't understand bless him, he thinks everyone works a short bike ride from home.

That all depends on what you call a short ride? I have travelled to Liverpool, Blackpool and Ormskirk and back - a good few times for work - several cyclist do.

[Stuartli]

That all depends on what you call a short ride? I have travelled to Liverpool, Blackpool and Ormskirk and back - a good few times for work - several cyclist do.

More Grimms' Fairy Tales?

[said]

More Grimms' Fairy Tales?

Ah! Just thought I would catch up - I have just got back from the driving range. Have you found anything good on the telly? No - of course not, it is so boring.

You must have led a very bland life - have you never enjoyed anything ever? You do seem to carry an immense chip on your shoulder, it reminds me of Charles Atlas carrying the world on his back. You have my every sympathy because life is great fun and you have missed out.

[Stuartli]

You must have led a very bland life - have you never enjoyed anything ever? You do seem to carry an immense chip on your shoulder, it reminds me of Charles Atlas carrying the world on his back. You have my every sympathy because life is great fun and you have missed out.

My life has never been boring in any way, unlike people like you who live in a Walter Mitty land and believe in their own self importance....

[said]

My life has never been boring in any way, unlike people like you who live in a Walter Mitty land and believe in their own self importance....

Good heaven's you are an idiot. I have never thought nor acted important. I have held some very intriguing positions - but as far as I am concerned everyone is equal. Many people who have not had the privileges that others have enjoyed, are superior in many other respects. Even the poor down and outs sleeping on the streets, could teach a professor many things.

You lay scorn on everyone, and you insult many - if you have such low self esteem, you need to rethink your life. You must have some knowledge or talent to throw into the pot, everyone has. Laugh and the world laughs with you, cry - and you cry alone. So lighten up!

[The PNP]

And everyone goes to work dressed like a chimney sweep!

I believe sweeps were still using bikes well into the last century - with their chimney rods attached to the crossbar!

UK bike use by tradesmen, commuters and for general purpose trips like shopping etc, certainly fell away dramatically in the second half of the 20th century. E.g. in the '50's both my parents used bikes for transport. I can remember sitting on a childs seat attached to my dads bike in the '50's. Then later on when I had my own bike, riding back from shopping in town with my mum in the early '60's......However, come the mid-'60's, dad had acquired a car and mum (who never drove) had stopped cycling.

I have to disagree with those who say bike usage will never become commonplace again, except for recreation. Because the Dutch example clearly demonstrates that given safe infrastructure, people will get on their bikes for everyday journeys of up to several miles. The availability of affordable electric bikes, can only accelerate that trend, making relatively rapid (and sweat-free!) travel a breeze for all!

[Stuartli]

You lay scorn on everyone, and you insult many - if you have such low self esteem, you need to rethink your life. You must have some knowledge or talent to throw into the pot, everyone has. Laugh and the world laughs with you, cry - and you cry alone. So lighten up!

I don't need to rethink anything nor do I need to lighten up. The one thing though I most certainly will continue to do is to ensure I don't end up living in the strange, surreal land that you inhabit.