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  1. #121
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    Interesting pdf on 'NHS Supply Chain':

    "NHS Supply Chain is technically a part of the NHS, headed by the Secretary of State. But this status is merely a fig-leaf for a needlessly complex web of contracts with private companies which answer to shareholders first. Immediately upon its formation NHS Supply Chain outsourced two major contracts for IT and logistics, and then broke up and outsourced the whole procurement system, by delegating eleven supply areas to various contractors. The parcel-delivery company DHL was put in charge of finding wholesalers to supply ward based consumables, including PPE kits. Unipart was given control over supply chain logistics, including the delivery of PPE. "

    Chopped up, privatised, just like the Tory plans for the rest of the NHS.

    Yes, everything to do with those 'Hard WorkingTM' NHS staff. Not.

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  4. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    So clearly your saying NHS workers in procurement didn't do their jobs they turned at the very least a blind eye .


    If and its a very big if you have any real proof that they and their Ministers co-operated in dishonesty I will be very happy to condemn them.

    The fact that the party of business knew people able to supply things is not determinative of guilt.


    Did some make money yes did some make too much money again yes
    but that's a long way from dishonesty.

    The price of hand sanitiser went up five fold in my local supermarket should I tell them they are corrupt?

    https://nhsprocurement.org.uk/about/...-supply-chain/

    NHS workers buying for the NHS.
    You insist on trying to turn the spotlight on NHS staff for the failures and cashing in on shortages. A classic statement “the party of business knew who to turn to etc” clearly they didn’t.

    We know that much of the world was seeking PPE equipment, but that is not an excuse to buy up any old rubbish which was useless for the job.

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  6. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by silver fox View Post
    You insist on trying to turn the spotlight on NHS staff for the failures and cashing in on shortages. A classic statement “the party of business knew who to turn to etc” clearly they didn’t.

    We know that much of the world was seeking PPE equipment, but that is not an excuse to buy up any old rubbish which was useless for the job.


    Far from it I am trying to defend them from thoughtless accusations from people who clearly don't understand how they would have to be part of the great con they allege.

    If any are then they deserve to be outed.

    This ridiculous suggestion NHS staff are not involved in purchasing and have turned a blind eye to Hancock's mate when his allegedly dodgy gear slipped in the system is disgraceful.

  7. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post

    This ridiculous suggestion NHS staff are not involved in purchasing and have turned a blind eye to Hancock's mate when his allegedly dodgy gear slipped in the system is disgraceful.
    NHS staff aren't involved, though.

    I'll try again:

    "NHS Supply Chain is technically a part of the NHS, headed by the Secretary of State. But this status is merely a fig-leaf for a needlessly complex web of contracts with private companies which answer to shareholders first. Immediately upon its formation NHS Supply Chain outsourced two major contracts for IT and logistics, and then broke up and outsourced the whole procurement system, by delegating eleven supply areas to various contractors. The parcel-delivery company DHL was put in charge of finding wholesalers to supply ward based consumables, including PPE kits. Unipart was given control over supply chain logistics, including the delivery of PPE. "

    Those aren't 'NHS staff'. The department is run by the government, the direct responsibility of the Minister for health. It is, as always, privatised and as such ripe for corruption.

    The likes of Hancock fast tracked their cronies through the system that was changed for the pandemic, the system that took out any scrutiny. Then he broke ministerial rules, and acted unlawfully, by failing to publish details of billions of pounds worth of coronavirus-related contracts.

    No matter how much it tortures your blue, Boris beatifying soul, that is exactly what Hancock did with his pub landlord mate, who had no previous experience in medical equipment. Or with dog food manufacturers who got contracts to procure PPE. Or companies that previously didn't exist until Covid contracts were being handed out.

    If that isn't corrupt, you have a twisted idea of corruption. And if it was anyone but a Tory government, you'd be screaming 'corruption' at the top of your lungs.

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  9. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    Far from it I am trying to defend them from thoughtless accusations from people who clearly don't understand how they would have to be part of the great con they allege.

    If any are then they deserve to be outed.

    This ridiculous suggestion NHS staff are not involved in purchasing and have turned a blind eye to Hancock's mate when his allegedly dodgy gear slipped in the system is disgraceful.
    Any NHS staff involved in procurement procure through the the NHS Supply chain, they would not normally have any contact with suppliers.

  10. #126
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    Just to add, this timely article came out today:

    ‘Mounting waste’ as government fails to find buyer for £98,000,000 worth of PPE.

    The government has failed to find a buyer for almost two million gowns and 300,000 goggles that had been offered to NATO countries after failing to reach the NHS supply chain.

    The £98.7 million order for the protective clothing resulted in 1.8 million items that are unsuitable for use in UK healthcare settings...


    ...The disclosure led to the Good Law Project (GLP) accusing the government of ‘mounting waste’ as details of unwanted PPE and contracts awarded via a fast-track, ‘VIP lane’ continue to emerge. Gemma Abbott, The GLP’s Legal Director, said: ‘The waste just keeps mounting. And no wonder, when sidestepping proper process and rampant cronyism have been the hallmarks of this government’s Covid response...


    ...The disclosures come as the GLP continues to fight for information relating to a ‘VIP lane’ operated for companies seeking lucrative government contracts during the first waves of the pandemic.

    In its most recent work, the not-for-profit campaign group discovered that the private offices of Cabinet ministers Lord Agnew and Michael Gove referred six firms down the channel.

    Over and over. Corruption, incompetence, cronyism.

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  12. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    So clearly your saying NHS workers in procurement didn't do their jobs they turned at the very least a blind eye .

    If and its a very big if you have any real proof that they and their Ministers co-operated in dishonesty I will be very happy to condemn them.

    The fact that the party of business knew people able to supply things is not determinative of guilt.

    Did some make money yes did some make too much money again yes
    but that's a long way from dishonesty.

    The price of hand sanitiser went up five fold in my local supermarket should I tell them they are corrupt?

    https://nhsprocurement.org.uk/about/...-supply-chain/

    NHS workers buying for the NHS.
    Are you sure that you're not related to Said? How on earth can you refute the PPE procurement process, as described by the National Audit Office and Parliament itself?

    You keep posting links to the NHS Supply Chain. Are you unaware of the changes made by the DHSC in 2018 with the creation of Supply Chain Creation Limited? Read the excerpts from the NAO report below. This isn't NHS workers buying for the NHS. It's SCCL contracting out procurement/distribution of PPE. The SCCL's contractors then contract out the sourcing and procurement of PPL.

    https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/up...9-pandemic.pdf

    "The Department redeveloped the NHS Supply Chain (the operating model for central procurement for trusts) in 2018, to prioritise financial savings. The Department created a new body (Supply Chain Coordination Limited (SCCL)) to manage the NHS Supply Chain in 2018.

    Before the pandemic, responsibility for managing PPE supply and stockpiles was spread across multiple public bodies and private sector contractors. The redeveloped 2018 model meant that while SCCL was responsible for the management of the NHS Supply Chain, it contracted out both procurement and distribution of PPE to contractors, which in turn contracted with PPE suppliers. Social care providers bought their PPE directly from PPE suppliers. The Pandemic Influenza Preparedness Programme (PIPP) stockpile, which contained around 400 million items of PPE for use during an influenza pandemic, was owned and managed by Public Health England (PHE) on behalf of the Department (which set the policy for the stockpile)

    The Department set up a Parallel Supply Chain in late-March to manage the rapidly deteriorating situation. SCCL started to increase procurement of PPE from its existing suppliers in February, but this was not enough and far more PPE was required. Given the soaring levels of demand for PPE, the stockpile and distribution challenges, and disruption in the global market for PPE, the Department created a Parallel Supply Chain. This aimed to urgently source and distribute PPE to trusts and other health and care providers by obtaining PPE through SCCL’s existing suppliers, new suppliers and new UK manufacturing.
    The Parallel Supply Chain included a team of around 450 (government) staff to find and buy PPE, plus a new distribution system.

    The Parallel Supply Chain’s procurement processes were designed to enable rapid procurement, but this meant that some PPE was procured that did not meet requirements, wasting hundreds of millions of pounds. The chaotic nature of the PPE market during the pandemic increased the risks involved in purchasing PPE, including that suppliers might not provide products of the standard required. The Parallel Supply Chain had a process to check suppliers’ equipment against government’s PPE specifications so that equipment that failed to meet requirements could be placed into quarantine and not issued to local organisations. However, in some cases the Parallel Supply Chain bought equipment that did not meet the specifications. Across two contracts within our audit sample it ordered 75 million respirator masks with a total cost of £214 million, that the NHS will not use for the original purpose (although one of the suppliers has since agreed to vary the contract) Tens of millions of respirator masks ordered from other suppliers and some other types of PPE are also likely to have problems being used for the original purpose. The Department told us that 195 million items are potentially unsuitable. We have not been able to verify this figure."



    More on the parallel supply chain, specifically the methods used by the 450 government employees who were within the parallel supply team.

    https://committees.parliament.uk/pub...46709/default/

    "The high-priority lane was not designed well enough to be a wholly effective way of sifting credible leads to supply PPE. Government’s PPE buying team, within the parallel supply chain, received over 15,000 offers to supply PPE. This cross- government PPE buying team set up a high-priority lane to separately assess and process high-priority leads that it considered more credible, which sat alongside an ordinary lane to process other leads. Leads that were considered more credible were those from government officials, ministers’ offices, MPs and members of the House of Lords but it is not clear why this assumption was made. The priority lane did not include organisations with expertise in the health and social care sector that had existing relationships with suppliers through their members or directly and were well-placed to assess the credibility of potential PPE suppliers, such as the British Medical Association. Around one in ten suppliers that came through the high-priority lane were awarded a contract compared with one in a hundred for the ordinary lane. There were no written rules to support those making referrals in deciding which leads to put forward. Some of those making referrals that were considered high priority, such as MPs, passed on leads on the basis that others would assess their suitability rather than vouching for the credibility of those offers. The same eight-stage process for assessing and processing offers was applied to both lanes, but the Cabinet Office and the Department accepted that leads that went through the high-priority lane were handled better. "

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  14. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty View Post
    NHS staff aren't involved, though.

    I'll try again:

    "NHS Supply Chain is technically a part of the NHS, headed by the Secretary of State. But this status is merely a fig-leaf for a needlessly complex web of contracts with private companies which answer to shareholders first. Immediately upon its formation NHS Supply Chain outsourced two major contracts for IT and logistics, and then broke up and outsourced the whole procurement system, by delegating eleven supply areas to various contractors. The parcel-delivery company DHL was put in charge of finding wholesalers to supply ward based consumables, including PPE kits. Unipart was given control over supply chain logistics, including the delivery of PPE. "

    Those aren't 'NHS staff'. The department is run by the government, the direct responsibility of the Minister for health. It is, as always, privatised and as such ripe for corruption.

    The likes of Hancock fast tracked their cronies through the system that was changed for the pandemic, the system that took out any scrutiny. Then he broke ministerial rules, and acted unlawfully, by failing to publish details of billions of pounds worth of coronavirus-related contracts.

    No matter how much it tortures your blue, Boris beatifying soul, that is exactly what Hancock did with his pub landlord mate, who had no previous experience in medical equipment. Or with dog food manufacturers who got contracts to procure PPE. Or companies that previously didn't exist until Covid contracts were being handed out.

    If that isn't corrupt, you have a twisted idea of corruption. And if it was anyone but a Tory government, you'd be screaming 'corruption' at the top of your lungs.


    You simply misunderstand, I don't think I can get past your blinkers.

    You have somehow convinced yourself that NHS employees have no connection with procurement despite the evidence to the contrary mainly because it undermines your irrational accusations.


    You somehow believe that a "dishonest" Minister, in this case, Hancock can bypass all the processes in place,

    and staff from his own office through every touching department will turn a blind eye to enable him to get his mates stuff on NHS shelves.

    Your anti-government bitterness blinds you to the insult you so casually make to government staff who at all levels worked night and day to procure for the NHS.

    Tell me what did Hancock get, did he share it with his staff?

    Did he sweep through the procurement system dropping off brown envelopes why should they not get a cut?

    Have you actually found out what the one time pub landlord supplied the "medical equipment" his firm, a food packaging company Hinpack actually supplied millions of plastic tubes filled with saline solution.


    Not much of a leap is it.

  15. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    You simply misunderstand, I don't think I can get past your blinkers.

    You have somehow convinced yourself that NHS employees have no connection with procurement despite the evidence to the contrary mainly because it undermines your irrational accusations.


    You somehow believe that a "dishonest" Minister, in this case, Hancock can bypass all the processes in place,

    and staff from his own office through every touching department will turn a blind eye to enable him to get his mates stuff on NHS shelves.

    Your anti-government bitterness blinds you to the insult you so casually make to government staff who at all levels worked night and day to procure for the NHS.

    Tell me what did Hancock get, did he share it with his staff?

    Did he sweep through the procurement system dropping off brown envelopes why should they not get a cut?

    Have you actually found out what the one time pub landlord supplied the "medical equipment" his firm, a food packaging company Hinpack actually supplied millions of plastic tubes filled with saline solution.


    Not much of a leap is it.
    Yes, it is quite a leap when you've never made anything like that before, yet there are companies with decades of experience that can make the product without changing from catering cups and plates to sterile test tubes.

    You really are scratching around in the dirt to prove your boy's innocence.

    I have not convinced myself that NHS employees have no connection with procurement despite the evidence to the contrary, because there is no evidence to the contrary. There are pages and pages of quotes and links on this thread proving NHS staff were not involved in contracts for procurement. You just either won't read it, don't understand them, or refuse to believe your own eyes.

    The 'the one time pub landlord'? What has the 'one time' got to do with anything?

    And "dishonest Minister"? Hancock's capacity for utter dishonesty and lying through his teeth has become almost legendary this year.

    'Tell me what did Hancock get'? Sacked. He got sacked. Because he's dishonest.

    Wonder why he didn't get that UN job?

    Seivad is right. You're Said's twin. Except Said might actually make more sense.

  16. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    You simply misunderstand, I don't think I can get past your blinkers.

    You have somehow convinced yourself that NHS employees have no connection with procurement despite the evidence to the contrary mainly because it undermines your irrational accusations.


    You somehow believe that a "dishonest" Minister, in this case, Hancock can bypass all the processes in place,

    and staff from his own office through every touching department will turn a blind eye to enable him to get his mates stuff on NHS shelves.

    Your anti-government bitterness blinds you to the insult you so casually make to government staff who at all levels worked night and day to procure for the NHS.

    Tell me what did Hancock get, did he share it with his staff?

    Did he sweep through the procurement system dropping off brown envelopes why should they not get a cut?

    Have you actually found out what the one time pub landlord supplied the "medical equipment" his firm, a food packaging company Hinpack actually supplied millions of plastic tubes filled with saline solution.


    Not much of a leap is it.
    If anyone is blinkered it's you, how many posts are there on this thread alone described how the supply system does, or in this case doesn't work, yet you continue blame NHS staff for the almighty lash ups, for the glad handing of contracts to donors, supporters and buddies of the government.

    Certainly SOME of the contracts were successful, but we now have a mountain of unusable equipment because it simply didn't meet the standards required, but you will defend it to the bitter end, reality doesn't matter obviously, I am also certain that no-one was in receipt of brown envelopes to turn a blind eye, the rewards will have come in the form of donations to the party, any back handers (if any) will have been much higher up the food chain than NHS staff.

    Roll on an enquiry into the "fast track", but I doubt it will ever happen, or at least not in public.

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  18. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by silver fox View Post

    Roll on an enquiry into the "fast track", but I doubt it will ever happen, or at least not in public.
    Even if the enquiry doesn't happen, or is run in the same corrupt way as anything else this government touches, the Good Law Project isn't going to let this go. They are determined to see justice in these matters.

    I see that in Brazil a Senate report accuses far-right President Bolsonaro of multiple crimes related to his mishandling of the pandemic, saying he should be charged with “crimes against humanity.” The Senate investigation finds he chose to let COVID-19 spread throughout the population in the hopes of achieving herd immunity.

    Brazil's Covid death rate is 2,817 per million.

    Johnson has overseen 2,031 Covid deaths per million. And rising. A statistically near-insignificant difference

    With luck, both might end up in the Hague to face charges.

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  20. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    You simply misunderstand, I don't think I can get past your blinkers.

    You have somehow convinced yourself that NHS employees have no connection with procurement the despite evidence to the contrary mainly because it undermines your irrational accusations.
    You really are incorrigible! It's you that can't get past your blinkers. You are still thinking in terms of how the NHS procured PPE before the pandemic, which, as you can see from the images below, was through the NHS Supply Chain (i.e. Supply Chain Coordination Limited's procurement/logistics contractors, and PPE procured directly from suppliers by the Trusts.

    All that changed when the pandemic came along and SCCL couldn't procure enough PPE to meet the Trust's demand. This led to the creation of the Parallel Supply Chain, which was announced on April 1. By May 1 the Parallel Supply Chain had established their procedures, and the DHSC advised the Trusts that PPE will now be managed centrally.

    The Parallel Supply Chain was overseen by Lord Deighton, who was appointed by the Government on 19 April to lead the national effort as advisor on PPE to the Secretary of State.

    The Department appointed a senior responsible owner, supported by a senior official from NHS England & NHS Improvement (NHSE&I) to provide management support, and staffed the Parallel Supply Chain with officials from across government and temporary staff. The Parallel Supply Chain performed five key functions:

    Name:  image.jpeg
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    NHS England and NHS improvement worked with the Trusts to gather the individual Trust's data, which would be used as the basis for establishing the distribution of PPE to each Trust.

    Below are images showing how PPE was procured/distributed before the pandemic, and how PPE was procured/distributed after the formation of the Parallel Supply Chain.
    Name:  image.jpeg
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  22. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by seivad View Post
    You really are incorrigible! It's you that can't get past your blinkers. You are still thinking in terms of how the NHS procured PPE before the pandemic, which, as you can see from the images below, was through the NHS Supply Chain (i.e. Supply Chain Coordination Limited's procurement/logistics contractors, and PPE procured directly from suppliers by the Trusts.

    All that changed when the pandemic came along and SCCL couldn't procure enough PPE to meet the Trust's demand. This led to the creation of the Parallel Supply Chain, which was announced on April 1. By May 1 the Parallel Supply Chain had established their procedures, and the DHSC advised the Trusts that PPE will now be managed centrally.

    The Parallel Supply Chain was overseen by Lord Deighton, who was appointed by the Government on 19 April to lead the national effort as advisor on PPE to the Secretary of State.

    The Department appointed a senior responsible owner, supported by a senior official from NHS England & NHS Improvement (NHSE&I) to provide management support, and staffed the Parallel Supply Chain with officials from across government and temporary staff. The Parallel Supply Chain performed five key functions:

    Name:  image.jpeg
Views: 0
Size:  128.5 KB

    NHS England and NHS improvement worked with the Trusts to gather the individual Trust's data, which would be used as the basis for establishing the distribution of PPE to each Trust.

    Below are images showing how PPE was procured/distributed before the pandemic, and how PPE was procured/distributed after the formation of the Parallel Supply Chain.
    Name:  image.jpeg
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Size:  207.1 KBName:  image.jpeg
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Size:  240.5 KBName:  image.jpeg
Views: 0
Size:  109.8 KB



    You want a reply to this response? What a load of phooey! Shortage of PPE, really? All you needed to do was to tie a headscarf around your face, el bandito style. You want rubber gloves - there were thousands of Marigolds on the shelves! You could even get Hazmat suits on the internet by the dozen. Hospitals were not short of PPE because these establishments were running at 2/3rd full - far quieter than normal, if they ran out of stock they would loan them from any of the, in the North here, 136 health providing clinics. Even surgeons are not required to wear a mask if they don't want to. All this fuss for a mild contagion, for heaven's sake. And it was downgraded from a Pandemic in April of the same year it started.

  23. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    You want a reply to this response?
    I don't think Seivad wanted a reply.

    She schooled him. Again.

    And it was downgraded from a Pandemic in April of the same year it started.
    No it wasn't.

    A pandemic is a pandemic. Whether it's Ebola or Pink Eye. If it has spread worldwide, it's a pandemic.

    It was downgraded from a high consequence infectious disease. Which does not mean it isn’t dangerous or serious.

  24. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty View Post
    I don't think Seivad wanted a reply.

    She schooled him. Again.



    No it wasn't.

    A pandemic is a pandemic. Whether it's Ebola or Pink Eye. If it has spread worldwide, it's a pandemic.

    It was downgraded from a high consequence infectious disease. Which does not mean it isn’t dangerous or serious.
    Yes, my apologies it was downgraded but it is still classed as a pseudo pandemic.

    How much do you need convincing? 99.6% of the WORLD's population were unaffected by this MILD "Pandemic" No - It did not spread Worldwide - it affected only countries involved with the American Dollar. When there is a REAL serious pandemic, you will know about it before it hits any headlines! You won't need to wait for testing to know if you have it or not.

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