Johnson's incompetent leadership helped send Covid victims to early graves

[local]

Biggest straw man I've ever witnessed.

I've said the government is corrupt, the government arranges contracts to supply PPE for the NHS, so therefore I've said the NHS is corrupt?

Like a kid in class with his hand up shouting 'Miss - Miss - she's calling the NHS liars and cheats!'

'Really, Billy? What did she say?'

'Er...the government is corrupt, Miss...'

Simply doesn't work, does it?

Nor does 'there was a shortage of PPE all over the world, so it's OK that Hancock ensures his mate the pub landlord gets the contract'. A. Pub. Landlord.

You know the list of similar contracts is long and damning. Bit like the knighthoods for villas schemes. Utterly corrupt.

Even worst, there were dozens of British PPE manufacturers, or firms that could easily switch to PPE manufacture, that were ignored.

From The HoC Public Accounts Committee:

The NAO found that the process did not clearly record information on referrals. The Cabinet Office confirmed that of the 47 suppliers which came through the high-priority lane and were awarded contracts, 12 were introduced from MPs, seven from Peers and 18 from officials. In five cases, the source of the referral was not known and one referral was put in the lane in error.

Leaving 4 suppliers awarded contracts through legitimate means.

Four. Out of 47.

And yes, other countries were short too. But we actually had manufacturers that tried to offer their services, but eventually dealt overseas.

Again, all facts. No blinkers. Just facts.

Worse still, they could have acted 4 months before, not sat there wondering which mates would offer a backhander for a contract in April.

Without benefit of entire government departments that should know exactly what is going on across the world, I bought PPE in December. It was blindingly obvious that some kind of health problem was happening in China. They shut down social media talk of disease or epidemic. Are you telling me the actual government didn't know what was going on, or is it more likely they ignored it until it was too late? As they did with locking down, shutting sporting events, locking down again, etc etc. The cost of which isn't measured in money, but in 150,000+ families grieving unnecessarily.

I'm not blinkered. If the government gets something right, I'll happily say so. 'Blinkered' is being so besotted with your boy Boris that you cannot stand a single syllable of criticism towards them. Which again shuts down your point of view when all that point of view consists of is 'the government is wonderful and nobody must ever ever ever criticise them'.

I'm sorry if I have holed (again) your supercharged blinkered anti-government at all costs invective but the truth that clearly doesn't fit your narrative is that Johnson Hancock or the Tory cat would have to have had co-operation from hard-working NHS staff to do as you claim.



Oh Jane (NHS Worker)

"here's an offer to supply over priced tat from Hancocks mate in the pub

"yes that's fine bury your scruples forget your public service ethos act dishonestly and sign the cheque"


Just maybe the NHS isn't staffed from top to bottom with dishonest people who are prepared to act like this.

Your bitterness for anything Conservative blinds your thinking.

By all means criticise them but at least be rational.

[Toodles McGinty]

I'm sorry if I have holed (again) your supercharged blinkered anti-government at all costs invective but the truth that clearly doesn't fit your narrative is that Johnson Hancock or the Tory cat would have to have had co-operation from hard-working NHS staff to do as you claim.



Oh Jane (NHS Worker)

"here's an offer to supply over priced tat from Hancocks mate in the pub

"yes that's fine bury your scruples forget your public service ethos act dishonestly and sign the cheque"


Just maybe the NHS isn't staffed from top to bottom with dishonest people who are prepared to act like this.

Your bitterness for anything Conservative blinds your thinking.

By all means criticise them but at least be rational.

OK.

So in your world, not only did Hancock's pub landlord mate NOT get a PPE contract, but NHS 'workers' scrutinise and approve contracts?

Really?

And who is 'Jane the NHS worker' talking to, exactly? Is Jane-the-NHS-worker directing the Minister in charge of NHS procurement to sign a cheque? Jane-the-NHS-worker is quite powerful, isn't she?

And once again, by calling the government corrupt, you translate that as I'm saying the NHS is staffed from top to bottom with 'dishonest staff'?

How does that work?

You didn't read the post by SF that stated:

The NHS does not buy directly, the DHSC is the actual buyer and paymaster, this is a government dept with a minister in charge.
- ???

So how do the 'hard working NHS staff' have to co-operate with corruption? How do they have to co-operate with Johnson or Hancock? By using the PPE that is dumped in front of them, when they weren't wearing binbags, they are 'co-operating with corruption'? Really?

To recap, Hancock's pub landlord mate DIDN'T get a contract. Maybe his sister's company that he had shares in didn't either, in your Tory-Toady world?

And NHS workers scrutinise contracts and tell the Minister in charge of the DHSC what to buy and from whom.

Or in your cod psychology 'I call them 'hard working NHS workers', meaning I support them more than you do'. Perhaps that makes you more patriotic than me. I bet you clapped louder than me for them, do you think?

And I need to be rational?

[local]

Again you waffle through to try and undermine the rather large flaw in your argument ;

people in the NHS and Civil Service would have had to co-operate in the dishonesty you allege.

Hard Working people in the NHS some who worked night and day for ungrateful people such as you have been caught in your net of fatuous allegations.

It doesn't matter if Hancocks granny got a contract what matters is how it was procured.

You really are a bitter and contemptible person you will smear anyone to perpetuate your anti-Tory agenda.

The NHS Supply Chain (DHSC) is responsible for setting the budget and top-line objectives of the NHS and is ultimately accountable for NHS procurement. In relation to pandemics, it determines what is included in the national pandemic stockpile.

How wide do you want to to spread your accusations?

Or maybe with your twisted mind, Boris got some suitcases full of cash for Hancocks mate.

Pathetic absolutely pathetic.

[silver fox]

Again you waffle through to try and undermine the rather large flaw in your argument ;

people in the NHS and Civil Service would have had to co-operate in the dishonesty you allege.

Hard Working people in the NHS some who worked night and day for ungrateful people such as you have been caught in your net of fatuous allegations.

It doesn't matter if Hancocks granny got a contract what matters is how it was procured.

You really are a bitter and contemptible person you will smear anyone to perpetuate your anti-Tory agenda.

The NHS Supply Chain (DHSC) is responsible for setting the budget and top-line objectives of the NHS and is ultimately accountable for NHS procurement. In relation to pandemics, it determines what is included in the national pandemic stockpile.

How wide do you want to to spread your accusations?

Or maybe with your twisted mind, Boris got some suitcases full of cash for Hancocks mate.

Pathetic absolutely pathetic.

You do talk wet at times, as far as NHS are concerned the only input they would have would be when PPE didn't arrive or was no good, they would have no part in actually awarding contracts or ordering, that takes the NHS out of any corruption or favouritisms, remember there is a government minister in charge, if he approves a deal it goes through.

[Desert Region]

The 'badge of honour'.



Now surely that deserved a round of applause?

[local]

You do talk wet at times, as far as NHS are concerned the only input they would have would be when PPE didn't arrive or was no good, they would have no part in actually awarding contracts or ordering, that takes the NHS out of any corruption or favouritisms, remember there is a government minister in charge, if he approves a deal it goes through.

But you clearly don't understand how the system works;



WHAT IS NHS PROCUREMENT?
The NHS buys a large amount of goods and services to enable it to run from day to day. This is called procurement. The NHS’s procurement systems have been put under enormous pressure during the health crisis posed by the coronavirus pandemic, which has created unprecedented levels of demand for some goods and services.

WHAT DOES THE NHS BUY?
The main goods the NHS buys are equipment and medicines. In response to the pandemic, this equipment has included ventilators and personal protective equipment (PPE) – gloves, aprons, surgical masks, eye protection and protective gowns. According to government guidance, all health and social care workers treating coronavirus patients must wear PPE. [1]


https://nhsprocurement.org.uk/nhs-procurement/


Maybe just maybe you might apologise.

[Alikado]

Again you waffle through to try and undermine the rather large flaw in your argument ;

people in the NHS and Civil Service would have had to co-operate in the dishonesty you allege.

Hard Working people in the NHS some who worked night and day for ungrateful people such as you have been caught in your net of fatuous allegations.

It doesn't matter if Hancocks granny got a contract what matters is how it was procured.

You really are a bitter and contemptible person you will smear anyone to perpetuate your anti-Tory agenda.

The NHS Supply Chain (DHSC) is responsible for setting the budget and top-line objectives of the NHS and is ultimately accountable for NHS procurement. In relation to pandemics, it determines what is included in the national pandemic stockpile.

How wide do you want to to spread your accusations?

Or maybe with your twisted mind, Boris got some suitcases full of cash for Hancocks mate.

Pathetic absolutely pathetic.

From Toodles #90

From The HoC Public Accounts Committee:

The NAO found that the process did not clearly record information on referrals. The Cabinet Office confirmed that of the 47 suppliers which came through the high-priority lane and were awarded contracts, 12 were introduced from MPs, seven from Peers and 18 from officials. In five cases, the source of the referral was not known and one referral was put in the lane in error.

Leaving 4 suppliers awarded contracts through legitimate means.

Four. Out of 47.

If having a 'High Priority Lane' isn't corrupt what is?

[Toodles McGinty]

Again you waffle through to try and undermine the rather large flaw in your argument ;

people in the NHS and Civil Service would have had to co-operate in the dishonesty you allege.

Hard Working people in the NHS some who worked night and day for ungrateful people such as you have been caught in your net of fatuous allegations.

It doesn't matter if Hancocks granny got a contract what matters is how it was procured.

You really are a bitter and contemptible person you will smear anyone to perpetuate your anti-Tory agenda.

The NHS Supply Chain (DHSC) is responsible for setting the budget and top-line objectives of the NHS and is ultimately accountable for NHS procurement. In relation to pandemics, it determines what is included in the national pandemic stockpile.

How wide do you want to to spread your accusations?

Or maybe with your twisted mind, Boris got some suitcases full of cash for Hancocks mate.

Pathetic absolutely pathetic.

Christ, you're not going to cry, are you?

So, let's just run through this diatribe.

People in the NHS (and you've recently added 'the civil service') had to co-operate with Matt Hancock giving contracts to his landlord mate and his sister? Sorry, 'hard working' people in the NHS, in case there was any doubt that you are a patriot who has British NHS blood coursing through his veins.

Except your link specifies: Most goods are bulk-purchased centrally and distributed to providers by NHS Supply Chain, which was established in 2016.

Oversight and operational management of the new operating model are by Supply Chain Coordination Limited, a company wholly owned by the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, which began operations in April 2018.

Your link also states: On 15 April, Hancock issued a new PPE plan...

Yep. And part of that was to issue a £30m contract to his mate. And another to his sister's firm, which he has a 20% stake in. Which broke ministerial code.

So where does ever-so-hard-working-Jane come into this? Where do the 'Hard Working' (capitals for emphasis?) people 'some of whom worked day and night' come into this? Do the front line staff in the ICU wards get a say in where their PPE & other equipment comes from? If so, why were some wearing bin bags?

And why am I ungrateful to 'Hard Working'TM people in the NHS?

As for 'net of fatuous allegations', I'll try again. This government is corrupt. They lined their and their mate's pockets when equipment was short. Regular Hard WorkingTM NHS staff have Sweet FA to do with procurement.

But you do persist with this cod psychology, feigning outrage that by accusing ministers of breaking ministerial code (that happened) and lining their own pockets (that happened), I'm stating unequivocally that all the staff (particularly Hard WorkingTM staff) in the NHS are corrupt. Straw Man fallacy.

Lots of people got suitcases of cash from this pandemic. I'm sure your beloved beatified Boris is one of them. although I think his tastes lean more to £800 a roll wallpaper, Russian oligarchs and villas.

My agenda isn't anti-Tory. It is anti-this-government. The current Cabinet has little to do with conservatism, with a large or small 'c'. The most extreme form of Conservative I have experienced is Thatcher. But I'd take a whole cabinet of Thatchers rather than this government, and I hope she's roasting on a fiery spit.

So, in short, you are talking bollocks.

[Desert Region]

Last month I think I saw more headlines reporting that Boris is battling to save Christmas - again. I expect we'll be seeing more headlines in the same vein as we descend towards the festive season.

How many movies were there in the Home Alone series? I imagine each successive film became more unnecessary than the last.

The sixth instalment:

[Toodles McGinty]

Last month I think I saw more headlines reporting that Boris is battling to save Christmas - again. I expect we'll be seeing more headlines in the same vein as we descend towards the festive season.

How many movies were there in the Home Alone series? I imagine each successive film became more unnecessary than the last.

The sixth instalment:

It'll be 'Boris Saves Christmas' again, no doubt at all.

I was assuming it'd be a bit of sabre rattling at French fishermen blocking Calais, then him coming up with yet another of his marvellous 'deals' to get them to stop blocking ports. No doubt suspending another bit of the Brexit bull. But only after he's provoked them then blamed even more shortages on them.

But now I'm guessing that even as he's stated we won't be going into 'plan B' that the public are crying out for, he'll wait to see if infections rise even further after the half term holidays. Then 'save Christmas' by mandating masks from November.

Probably both.

Exhaustingly predictable.

[local]

Christ, you're not going to cry, are you?

So, let's just run through this diatribe.

People in the NHS (and you've recently added 'the civil service') had to co-operate with Matt Hancock giving contracts to his landlord mate and his sister? Sorry, 'hard working' people in the NHS, in case there was any doubt that you are a patriot who has British NHS blood coursing through his veins.

Except your link specifies: Most goods are bulk-purchased centrally and distributed to providers by NHS Supply Chain, which was established in 2016.

Oversight and operational management of the new operating model are by Supply Chain Coordination Limited, a company wholly owned by the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, which began operations in April 2018.

Your link also states: On 15 April, Hancock issued a new PPE plan...

Yep. And part of that was to issue a £30m contract to his mate. And another to his sister's firm, which he has a 20% stake in. Which broke ministerial code.

So where does ever-so-hard-working-Jane come into this? Where do the 'Hard Working' (capitals for emphasis?) people 'some of whom worked day and night' come into this? Do the front line staff in the ICU wards get a say in where their PPE & other equipment comes from? If so, why were some wearing bin bags?

And why am I ungrateful to 'Hard Working'TM people in the NHS?

As for 'net of fatuous allegations', I'll try again. This government is corrupt. They lined their and their mate's pockets when equipment was short. Regular Hard WorkingTM NHS staff have Sweet FA to do with procurement.

But you do persist with this cod psychology, feigning outrage that by accusing ministers of breaking ministerial code (that happened) and lining their own pockets (that happened), I'm stating unequivocally that all the staff (particularly Hard WorkingTM staff) in the NHS are corrupt. Straw Man fallacy.

Lots of people got suitcases of cash from this pandemic. I'm sure your beloved beatified Boris is one of them. although I think his tastes lean more to £800 a roll wallpaper, Russian oligarchs and villas.

My agenda isn't anti-Tory. It is anti-this-government. The current Cabinet has little to do with conservatism, with a large or small 'c'. The most extreme form of Conservative I have experienced is Thatcher. But I'd take a whole cabinet of Thatchers rather than this government, and I hope she's roasting on a fiery spit.

So, in short, you are talking bollocks.

So to sum that lot up,

you got it wrong badly and are looking for anything to obfuscate with,

my central point remains completely unanswered

for Hancock, Johnson or a Conservative Tortoise to dip the till they would need co-operation from dishonest NHS workers and civil servants.


The "breaking ministerial code" such as going over the 30 day limit of course they weren't busy how terrible of them.

Regular NHS staff have everything to do with procurement;

https://nhsprocurement.org.uk/

Your inbuilt bitterness again clouds your thinking.

[Toodles McGinty]

So to sum that lot up,

you got it wrong badly and are looking for anything to obfuscate with,

my central point remains completely unanswered

for Hancock, Johnson or a Conservative Tortoise to dip the till they would need co-operation from dishonest NHS workers and civil servants.


The "breaking ministerial code" such as going over the 30 day limit of course they weren't busy how terrible of them.

Regular NHS have everything to do with procurement;

https://nhsprocurement.org.uk/

Your inbuilt bitterness again clouds your thinking.

No, I think it's been fairly proven you have it wrong.

Hancock changed the rules.

NHS staff (even Hard WorkingTM ones) don't choose contracts, they open the boxes delivered to the hospital and use what they are given.

Most goods are purchased and distributed by Supply Chain Coordination. Your words: The NHS Supply Chain (DHSC) is responsible for setting the budget and top-line objectives of the NHS and is ultimately accountable for NHS procurement. In relation to pandemics, it determines what is included in the national pandemic stockpile.

You should have Googled 'Supply Chain' a bit more.

Supply Chain Coordination Limited, a company wholly owned by the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care. Matt Hancock.

Hancock handed out contracts to his landlord mate and sister.

MPs fast tracked Tory donors and cronies. The government's own website stated this. Only 4 out of 47 went through legitimate processing.

Fact. Fact. Fact.

Obfuscating? What, like saying I'm calling 'Hard WorkingTM' NHS staff 'corrupt'?

You can paint it any way your sycophantic brain likes, Ministers of HM Government lined their own pockets, and the pockets of Tory donors and cronies. Fact.

The government is corrupt. The PM is corrupt. They break Ministerial codes of conduct with alacrity, then are judged by more cronies.

Who looks into corruption by the government? John Penrose. Who is John Penrose? 'Dido' Harding's husband. It's almost incestuous.

And utterly corrupt.

[Toodles McGinty]

for Hancock, Johnson or a Conservative Tortoise to dip the till they would need co-operation from dishonest NHS workers and civil servants.

And if you don't understand the words, look at the pictures:

[silver fox]

But you clearly don't understand how the system works;



WHAT IS NHS PROCUREMENT?
The NHS buys a large amount of goods and services to enable it to run from day to day. This is called procurement. The NHS’s procurement systems have been put under enormous pressure during the health crisis posed by the coronavirus pandemic, which has created unprecedented levels of demand for some goods and services.

WHAT DOES THE NHS BUY?
The main goods the NHS buys are equipment and medicines. In response to the pandemic, this equipment has included ventilators and personal protective equipment (PPE) – gloves, aprons, surgical masks, eye protection and protective gowns. According to government guidance, all health and social care workers treating coronavirus patients must wear PPE. [1]


https://nhsprocurement.org.uk/nhs-procurement/


Maybe just maybe you might apologise.

Why should I apologise? Did you fully read through the link you provided?

Read it in FULL and you will find it returns the buying decisions right back to DHSC, of course the NHS request services and supplies, that’s where NHS procurement comes in, of course they can request supplies, but do not buy direct unless that supplier has already been approved by DHSC, you can rearrange the words as much as you wish, but the ultimate responsibility for supplies and services remains with the DHSC.

[said]

You do talk wet at times, as far as NHS are concerned the only input they would have would be when PPE didn't arrive or was no good, they would have no part in actually awarding contracts or ordering, that takes the NHS out of any corruption or favouritisms, remember there is a government minister in charge, if he approves a deal it goes through.

I doubt if any shortages occurred. The hospitals were far more empty than normal, the hospitals would have a stock in anyway, and it they ran short they would borrow off nearby health facilities as the have always done, there are around 136 health establishments in the north west alone.