Divided England

[Toodles McGinty]

Following on from the comments on the 'David Amess' thread, I thought it might be better to has a separate thread to discuss the language of English (rather than British) politics, and how it has divided us.

The language used has evolved since the Brexit campaigns. In the past, traditional campaigning involved going door to door, manifestos, candidates putting forward their point of view.

Since the Trump and Leave campaigns utilised companies such as Cambridge Analytica, Palantir etc used illegal data mining (analysing people's character traits and targeting advertising that 'nudges' them down a particular path, convincing them they are right and the 'other' is an enemy), traditional campaigns seem to be a thing of the past. Now it's 3 word slogans and buzzwords to trigger an individual's prejudices.

The upshot of this is a massively divided country, politically, socially. Hate crime is up and rising, especially racial hate. People feel emboldened by the language of government. While Jo Cox was murdered, the attacker shouted 'Britain First'. Boris Johnson was branded a disgrace for dismissing pleas from Labour MPs to stop using inflammatory language in light of the murder of Jo Cox, telling one that it was “humbug” and another that the best way to honour her was to “get Brexit done”. He was called on to stop using language such as “surrender”, “traitor” and “betrayal” in relation to Brexit.

All carefully selected to appeal to certain voters.

Now Sajid Javid is calling on people to 'name and shame' GPs. They are already being physically attacked. How long before one is killed?

The anti-vaxxers are becoming increasingly violent. Believing they are 'pureblood' (LOL), again, led by geeks on laptops pushing buzzwords to appeal to their need to kick out at something or someone. How long before they kill a doctor, nurse or teacher?

Is the genie out of the bottle? Is there any way back, or do we become increasingly tribal and violent, nudged along by social media for their political ends?

(TL-DR - politicians talk $h!t and people will die because of it)

[Blackrock]

This is the reason I usually avoid getting involved in political on-line 'debates' Toodles. The constant name-calling, swearing, cursing (even when disguised by asterixis etc) just put me off, and I'm talking about all parties and their followers. They all do it.
I just prefer to stay out of it and laugh at others relying on gutter language to try and prove a point. They all remind me of kids in a playground - my dad is better than yours etc !!

[said]

Following on from the comments on the 'David Amess' thread, I thought it might be better to has a separate thread to discuss the language of English (rather than British) politics, and how it has divided us.

The language used has evolved since the Brexit campaigns. In the past, traditional campaigning involved going door to door, manifestos, candidates putting forward their point of view.

Since the Trump and Leave campaigns utilised companies such as Cambridge Analytica, Palantir etc used illegal data mining (analysing people's character traits and targeting advertising that 'nudges' them down a particular path, convincing them they are right and the 'other' is an enemy), traditional campaigns seem to be a thing of the past. Now it's 3 word slogans and buzzwords to trigger an individual's prejudices.

The upshot of this is a massively divided country, politically, socially. Hate crime is up and rising, especially racial hate. People feel emboldened by the language of government. While Jo Cox was murdered, the attacker shouted 'Britain First'. Boris Johnson was branded a disgrace for dismissing pleas from Labour MPs to stop using inflammatory language in light of the murder of Jo Cox, telling one that it was “humbug” and another that the best way to honour her was to “get Brexit done”. He was called on to stop using language such as “surrender”, “traitor” and “betrayal” in relation to Brexit.

All carefully selected to appeal to certain voters.

Now Sajid Javid is calling on people to 'name and shame' GPs. They are already being physically attacked. How long before one is killed?

The anti-vaxxers are becoming increasingly violent. Believing they are 'pureblood' (LOL), again, led by geeks on laptops pushing buzzwords to appeal to their need to kick out at something or someone. How long before they kill a doctor, nurse or teacher?

Is the genie out of the bottle? Is there any way back, or do we become increasingly tribal and violent, nudged along by social media for their political ends?

(TL-DR - politicians talk $h!t and people will die because of it)

It is the media running wild. Until there are strict disciplines in place to monitor reporting and the distribution of fact and fiction, people will be targeted. The newspaper agencies are first and foremost stock markets - factual news is almost non existent.

[Toodles McGinty]

This is the reason I usually avoid getting involved in political on-line 'debates' Toodles. The constant name-calling, swearing, cursing (even when disguised by asterixis etc) just put me off, and I'm talking about all parties and their followers. They all do it.
I just prefer to stay out of it and laugh at others relying on gutter language to try and prove a point. They all remind me of kids in a playground - my dad is better than yours etc !!

I hold my hands up there, B, I'm terrible for that. Apologies (and apologies in advance) for any offence.

You shouldn't stay out of political debate if you feel you've a point to make. As I always say, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. For example, stepping away from the use of swear words, do you think that the use of certain language by those in government (this or any other) are responsible for Jo Cox, David Amess, and the general deep divisions in society?

[Toodles McGinty]

It is the media running wild. Until there are strict disciplines in place to monitor reporting and the distribution of fact and fiction, people will be targeted.

For once I actually agree with you.

There are no laws in place to force the media to be honest, as there are none, or none that are effective, to force politicians to be truthful. Or even lawful.

Until there are, no opposition party will ever beat a populist propagandist foe backed by the wealth of Croesus. In which case, the opposition parties might as well get used to decades in the political wilderness.

[MICK/GILLY]

“The anti-vaxxers are becoming increasingly violent. Believing they are 'pureblood' (LOL), again, led by geeks on laptops pushing buzzwords to appeal to their need to kick out at something or someone. How long before they kill a doctor, nurse or teacher?”

I think this is a misleading statement, ( on this media platform ),, most anti vaxxers I have seen on social media are older generation calm and educated ( and yea there’s nutters in everything ) and doctors and nurses speaking out about side effects and how the government is misleading folk about the whole thing showing empty hospitals / people with horrible side effects and getting into trouble for it, then there’s the government saying don’t believe these professionals working in the field and one min promising no restrictions for unvaxed then the next imposing sanctions and all the while double vaccinated folk are dying just the same as none of its tested properly. I am not a pro or anti vax maybe it works who knows maybe some top professionals that say it’s safe and other ones that say it’s not and say the figures have been manipulated are right I am not sure, I am no expert, it seems no one is. The trend now is for the Vaxed to gang up on the unvaxed .

[local]

So to sum up if only we had voted remain.

If only we had accepted repeated referendums until we had "voted the right way"

If only we had voted Jeremy in and not Boris.

If only we all leaned to the left we would all be a nice balanced and thoughtful lot expressing our views in measured tones.

All that from someone who often litters their posts with the most visceral insults.

Yours,

Confused Carrie.

[local]

“The anti-vaxxers are becoming increasingly violent. Believing they are 'pureblood' (LOL), again, led by geeks on laptops pushing buzzwords to appeal to their need to kick out at something or someone. How long before they kill a doctor, nurse or teacher?”

I think this is a misleading statement, ( on this media platform ),, most anti vaxxers I have seen on social media are older generation calm and educated ( and yea there’s nutters in everything ) and doctors and nurses speaking out about side effects and how the government is misleading folk about the whole thing showing empty hospitals / people with horrible side effects and getting into trouble for it, then there’s the government saying don’t believe these professionals working in the field and one min promising no restrictions for unvaxed then the next imposing sanctions and all the while double vaccinated folk are dying just the same as none of its tested properly. I am not a pro or anti vax maybe it works who knows maybe some top professionals that say it’s safe and other ones that say it’s not and say the figures have been manipulated are right I am not sure, I am no expert, it seems no one is. The trend now is for the Vaxed to gang up on the unvaxed .

Trouble with that Mick is the data doesn't support the anti-vaxers point of view.

Fully vaccinated people account for 1.2% of England’s Covid-19 deaths

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ovid-19-deaths

[MICK/GILLY]

No we would have had Diane Abbott telling us that they pay the police a pound an hour , no wait £50 an hour , no hang on £20 an hour. This government do tend to wing it a bit making it up as they go along but abbot really takes the cake her whole way of speaking is like David icke .. some people you can actually see their brain working as they speak you can actually see that they are making it up as they go along, no offence to icke of course the moon is hollow it shouldn’t be there and is an observation post watching us, everyone knows that tho.

[local]

Thankfully Dianne isn't at the ONS.

A party that thinks she is competent hopefully will not get voted in.

[MICK/GILLY]

Trouble with that Mick is the data doesn't support the anti-vaxers point of view.

Fully vaccinated people account for 1.2% of England’s Covid-19 deaths

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ovid-19-deaths

Yea so say the government /governments . Hmm people are put down as covid deaths if they have been tested positive in the last month even if they get run over and killed the next day so I don’t know what to believe I could go on all day with opposing controversy and it’s because there is some doubt and governments are well known for manipulating figures and closing down differing views and on social media mostly with fear makes me more unsure. Today right now on euronews France is imposing major sanctions for the unvaxed charging them more than £20 for tests they are saying to charge them usually makes them comply ( I suppose they have tried bribing folk with the likes of free burgers ) now and not allowing them on trains and such without double vax, European pressure is mounting governments and vaxxers are saying it’s sensible others are saying it’s pressure to comply for reasons not being made clear, vaccinating folk is a big push all of a sudden they have found a malaria vaccine and are vaccinating peoples that are less likely to have the covid vax available to them, as long as they get a needle into their arm some would say . But again I don’t know, it could be that I am a conspiracy theorist or it’s just that I don’t believe everything I hear without proper evidence, maybe that why I am not over religious or generally gullable .

[MICK/GILLY]

Thankfully Dianne isn't at the ONS.

A party that thinks she is competent hopefully will not get voted in.

It’s actually comical watching her, the way she speaks ( her style of speaking ) she is giving herself enough time to think, to come up with some bull shot to pass as fact to those who don’t know of don’t think, everyone knows a bullshitter you can actually see them thinking see the cogs moving it’s laughable

[Toodles McGinty]

So to sum up if only we had voted remain.

If only we had accepted repeated referendums until we had "voted the right way"

If only we had voted Jeremy in and not Boris.

If only we all leaned to the left we would all be a nice balanced and thoughtful lot expressing our views in measured tones.

All that from someone who often litters their posts with the most visceral insults.

Yours,

Confused Carrie.

No, nothing to do with remain or leave. Nothing to do with 'leaning left'.

As for 'visceral insults', as I keep saying, don't put it out there if you don't like it coming back. The only person on the receiving end of any 'visceral insults' on here is you. You have a short memory, obviously.

5 years of 'lefty losers', of calling me an alcoholic, of continual sneering - what's the latest 'social housing' tenants? My views in particular are irrelevant?

But you can't still get it in your head that Brexit had little to do with 'left' or 'right', just in or out.

Who said anything about voting the 'right way'?

All going right over your head, nothing at all to do with the original post.

Stay in your lane, Carrie.

[Toodles McGinty]

“The anti-vaxxers are becoming increasingly violent. Believing they are 'pureblood' (LOL), again, led by geeks on laptops pushing buzzwords to appeal to their need to kick out at something or someone. How long before they kill a doctor, nurse or teacher?”

I think this is a misleading statement, ( on this media platform ),, most anti vaxxers I have seen on social media are older generation calm and educated ( and yea there’s nutters in everything ) and doctors and nurses speaking out about side effects and how the government is misleading folk about the whole thing showing empty hospitals / people with horrible side effects and getting into trouble for it, then there’s the government saying don’t believe these professionals working in the field and one min promising no restrictions for unvaxed then the next imposing sanctions and all the while double vaccinated folk are dying just the same as none of its tested properly. I am not a pro or anti vax maybe it works who knows maybe some top professionals that say it’s safe and other ones that say it’s not and say the figures have been manipulated are right I am not sure, I am no expert, it seems no one is. The trend now is for the Vaxed to gang up on the unvaxed .

This lot don't seem very calm or educated to me. IMO they are, just like the Tommy Robinson lot before them, or the 'statue guardians', just angry people who've latched on to an outlet for their impotent rage. More misinformation, more buttons pushed, more 'nudges' by social media.

YouTube immunologists whose main jobs are in plumbing and nail bars? There's no scientific rationale. Maybe a human instinct to fight against something they don't understand, but still a conspiracy theory, which includes the same baddies as the rest of the demented theories - Bill Gates, the New World Order, some unknown powers that be. I've no doubt George Soros gets a mention too.

There are experts. Immunologists. Virologists. The same type that have just brought out an anti-Malaria vaccine that will save millions of lives eventually. Does anyone think that these aren't experts, but are part of a larger conspiracy that has drawn in every government in every country, along with millions and millions of highly trained medical staff worldwide?

I don't know about the vaccinated 'ganging up' on anyone. Fear them, possibly. The vaccine isn't infallible, it simply stops your symptoms getting worse. It doesn't stop you catching Covid. It reduces the chances of you spreading the virus. It reduces your chances of death or hospitalisation. but right now it doesn't stop it. And while a good percentage of the population are still happy to spread it, or don't believe it exists at all, the opportunity for mutations that kill millions more remain.

If anything, I understand the hesitancy of pregnant women to take the vaccine, but their fears will be proven or allayed around next Feb / March onwards.

[millsey]

Risible of Toodles McGinty to comment along the lines of language and division, look at the this thread:

https://www.qlocal.co.uk/uk/forum/We...55051309-2.htm

Millsey