Divided England

[Toodles McGinty]

You could say exactly the same about Boris Johnson but he doesn't attract the same visceral response, I can't imagine why that would be.

Given the right's stated dislike of the "elite", they seem remarkably forgiving of the Eton educated posh white boys than they ever are of working class black politicians.

Hmm, yes, I wonder what it is about the first female black MP and the longest serving black MP that draws such criticism?

A short period where she admits she was quite ill and was unprepared for a few media questions?

Because she's the only home secretary to screw up a few numbers, ever?

What could it be? Female, black, Labour MP?

I just can't imagine.

[seivad]

I reckon the staff and the residents at every care home should be vaccinated. We can't keep repeating the same mistakes.

It's unfortunate, but when even the double jabbed are dying of Covid, it simply doesn't make sense to have unvaxxed folk around vulnerable people, be it the elderly, hospital patients, whoever.

As I said, I'm not in favour of the government forcing anybody to have any medical treatment they don't want, but surely there comes a time when those deliberately putting others at risk take second place to those who try not to.

Right now, I'd like to see masks in indoor spaces mandatory again. 50k new cases today, rising toward the worse infections we had last January. Hundreds of deaths a week. And it's 'over'?

I agree. We can't ignore several uncomfortable truths.

It's an inalienable fact that as we age our natural immune system degrades. Even without underlying medical conditions, elderly people will struggle to overcome Covid. Throw in the medical conditions that usually accompany old age and the necessity to be placed in care, and it's a no brainer. Care home residents should be vaccinated, and so should care home workers. All efforts should be made to keep Covid out of care homes.

The vaccines that we've all had, and which can still help prevent serious illness and death, were designed for the original Covid. When the Delta variant came along, the vaccine trials and real world results changed. Delta is far more contagious. The vaccine's efficacy rates have fallen. If we do contract Covid, the viral load in our nose is increased. The viral load disappears faster than in an unvaccinated person, but until it does we are transmitting the virus.

As you say, this isn't a standard vaccine, such as the polio vaccine which gives 100% immunity for life. Real world results and studies have provided evidence that the vaccines wane considerably over time. Off the top of my head I think that after 4 months it's almost halved. Booster shots are going to be an ongoing necessity. At the very least they must be offered to the most vulnerable.

While younger healthy people can be assured that their good immune system, plus the vaccines, means that even if they contract Covid, they will slough it off. The elderly have to face the fact that, even with the vaccine, they are still at high risk of contracting Covid, and of serious illness and death. The way things stand at the moment, for them life cannot go back to normal. Masking, hand hygiene and distancing will still have to apply. I for one am still doing it, and have no intention of stopping it anytime soon. Thankfully it's still mandated here anyway. Looking at your case numbers, it would be no bad thing for the UK to reintroduce the same thing.

In Ontario all health care workers in homes have to be fully vaccinated by November 1st. If by Nov. 1st they've had 1 shot, they have until Nov. 15 to get the 2nd shot. Until then they have to provide daily negative tests. Our health care service is devolved, so I can't speak for all provinces, but in Ontario hospitals they are doing the same thing. I support their decision.

[Desert Region]

It is still their choice, if they were vaccinated there would be more chance that they would be asymptomatic and therefore more likely to be spreading as the unvaccinated would probably be off work sick.

I'll add that aside from your remarkably poor analysis and ill-informed points and assumptions, imagine if your beliefs were put into practice, with the freedom of care workers and medical workers to choose to be unvaccinated being paramount, and further for unvaccinated doctors, burses and care workers to be promoted as the ideal as that (in your parallel reality) minimises the spread of the virus and so maximises the safety and protection of patients and residents under their care.

Imagine the consequences for vaccine uptake amongst the general population when people see that docs, nurses and care workers aren't being jabbed - for the given reason of protecting the vulnerable! The effects would be catastrophic.

You rightfully and regularly call out the Government for their lengthy list of disastrous failures regards the virus and Covid, but it seems you're a vaccine sceptic of some sort. Possibly more so than Said, whose main priority seems to be to troll and attention-seek.

I surmise it's not just right-wing libertarian types who bristle against the pressures to take the jab.

[Toodles McGinty]

Masking, hand hygiene and distancing will still have to apply. I for one am still doing it, and have no intention of stopping it anytime soon. Thankfully it's still mandated here anyway. Looking at your case numbers, it would be no bad thing for the UK to reintroduce the same thing.

I'm sticking to those too. Though I've had a few dirty looks and comments. I try to simply pity them. Seems we are very much in the minority now. Even the oldies in M&S are mainly bare faced.

As far as case numbers are concerned, I think they are way higher than reported. One of the twins (4) was sent home again. Hacking cough, high temps, shortness of breath. DD took him to the medical centre, who said it might be Covid again, but mild. Rings the test centre who said if it's mild, does she want to bother, as it will be quite a long wait with a poorly kid.

Highest case numbers in Europe, again, by a huge margin. Something like 30k + per day more than 2nd place Germany.

On top of that, I wonder how many just don't 'bother'?

[Alikado]

I'll add that aside from your remarkably poor analysis and ill-informed points and assumptions, imagine if your beliefs were put into practice, with the freedom of care workers and medical workers to choose to be unvaccinated being paramount, and further for unvaccinated doctors, burses and care workers to be promoted as the ideal as that (in your parallel reality) minimises the spread of the virus and so maximises the safety and protection of patients and residents under their care.

Imagine the consequences for vaccine uptake amongst the general population when people see that docs, nurses and care workers aren't being jabbed - for the given reason of protecting the vulnerable! The effects would be catastrophic.

You rightfully and regularly call out the Government for their lengthy list of disastrous failures regards the virus and Covid, but it seems you're a vaccine sceptic of some sort. Possibly more so than Said, whose main priority seems to be to troll and attention-seek.

I surmise it's not just right-wing libertarian types who bristle against the pressures to take the jab.

It's just an alternative view of what is published by the mainstream media & Government, their stories often do not add up, but why just pick on Care Home staff to be compulsory jabbed, are they too scared of a rebellion if they inclade NHS staff or is drip drip drip and that is come.

[local]

I can't help being drawn to the comments of the likes of Sir Robert Winston that we are genetically weak with Covid.

Why am I still alive and others younger and fitter gone?

How come some of the most exposed people in our society are fine yet others who go out once in a blue moon with full precautions still get it.

By all means, blame who it comforts you to blame but until we find out why it's just pointless exhaling.

[Alikado]

I can't help being drawn to the comments of the likes of Sir Robert Winston that we are genetically weak with Covid.

Why am I still alive and others younger and fitter gone?

How come some of the most exposed people in our society are fine yet others who go out once in a blue moon with full precautions still get it.

By all means, blame who it comforts you to blame but until we find out why it's just pointless exhaling.

Those who seldom go out are the most vulnerable when they do go out, some of the younger and allegedly fitter seldom go out, fresh air is still the answer. When you go out in the fresh air whether you realise it or not you breathe deeper and clear your airways.

[Desert Region]

It's just an alternative view of what is published by the mainstream media & Government, their stories often do not add up, but why just pick on Care Home staff to be compulsory jabbed, are they too scared of a rebellion if they inclade NHS staff or is drip drip drip and that is come.

It's your alternative view and reasoning, and doesn't bear scrutiny, plus you seemingly didn't foresee the catastrophic consequences that would have happened had it become a mainstream view - which should act as a pause for thought.

Care home staff being mandatorily jabbed is a natural starting point, given the well-documented devastation of Covid on care home residents. Perhaps you've forgotten? An earlier comment...

If you have a regulation to stop the virus it must apply to residents as well as staff, they could be just as vulnerable.

...suggests as much.

I don't know why you see care home staff as being 'picked on'. They're not victims. To echo an earlier observation, I would be confused why of all people someone in a caring role looking after elderly people -who as we know are most at risk from Covid- would rather lose their job than be jabbed against Covid.

[local]

Those who seldom go out are the most vulnerable when they do go out, some of the younger and allegedly fitter seldom go out, fresh air is still the answer. When you go out in the fresh air whether you realise it or not you breathe deeper and clear your airways.

I'm certainly not on board with that.

We have buried far too many fit "fresh air breathers"

[Alikado]

It's your alternative view and reasoning, and doesn't bear scrutiny, plus you seemingly didn't foresee the catastrophic consequences that would have happened had it become a mainstream view - which should act as a pause for thought.

Care home staff being mandatorily jabbed is a natural starting point, given the well-documented devastation of Covid on care home residents. Perhaps you've forgotten? An earlier comment... ...suggests as much.

I don't know why you see care home staff as being 'picked on'. They're not victims. To echo an earlier observation, I would be confused why of all people someone in a caring role looking after elderly people -who as we know are most at risk from Covid- would rather lose their job than be jabbed against Covid.

I see the Care Home Staff being picked because by and large they are not Unionised so it will be easier to impose on them - the thin end of the wedge, where is next?

The bit about the people being vulnerable is highlighting the fact that it is not compulsory for residents only staff and the staff may also be in a vulnerable group, also not everybody can have the vaccine.

[Desert Region]

I see the Care Home Staff being picked because by and large they are not Unionised so it will be easier to impose on them - the thin end of the wedge, where is next?

The bit about the people being vulnerable is highlighting the fact that it is not compulsory for residents only staff and the staff may also be in a vulnerable group, also not everybody can have the vaccine.

It's care homes for blindingly obvious reasons that you seem to be unable to recall or, when reminded, seem unwilling to consider relevant.

Staff that are in a vulnerable group should surely to goodness be being jabbed for their own welfare (as well as others)!

For where will be next and a potential glimpse into the future: you could look to President Biden's large scale vaccination mandates? I agree with Biden's robust approach. Commendable.

[silver fox]

It's care homes for blindingly obvious reasons that you seem to be unable to recall or, when reminded, seem unwilling to consider relevant.

Staff that are in a vulnerable group should surely to goodness be being jabbed for their own welfare (as well as others)!

For where will be next and a potential glimpse into the future: you could look to President Biden's large scale vaccination mandates? I agree with Biden's robust approach. Commendable.

Yet in the USA you have Trump supporting Republicans passing their own laws and putting every objection they can think of in place.

[local]

Care Home staff have the freedom to do something most of their residents don't walk away.


Why you would want to take any risk at all with amongst the most vulnerable people in society defeats me.

If you feel so strongly then go.


The mountain of data builds daily to support the vaccine's safety and efficacy.

If anyone could point me to the contrary fine I will read it.

[MICK/GILLY]

I see the Care Home Staff being picked because by and large they are not Unionised so it will be easier to impose on them - the thin end of the wedge, where is next?

The bit about the people being vulnerable is highlighting the fact that it is not compulsory for residents only staff and the staff may also be in a vulnerable group, also not everybody can have the vaccine.

If care homes made it mandatory for residents to have the jab some of those residents may up and leave for whatever reason and given that it’s around a grand a week to stay there the homes may loose 5 or more residents at a time, staff are two a penny residents are a grand a week . Maybe that’s got something to do with it .

[Alikado]

Care Home staff have the freedom to do something most of their residents don't walk away.


Why you would want to take any risk at all with amongst the most vulnerable people in society defeats me.

If you feel so strongly then go.


The mountain of data builds daily to support the vaccine's safety and efficacy.

If anyone could point me to the contrary fine I will read it.

Residents are not inmates, they and / or their relatives always have the option to go elsewhere.