Originally Posted by Little Londoner

78 ? did Labour arrange for friends to come out and ride round Hoghton St for a couple of hours.

Suggest you read tallboy's post at the top of this page.
He had to make 4 journeys during the survey in the course of his own labour.

I no longer have a bike, so I'm not that fussed over cycle lanes either way.

But there seems an inevitability regarding increased use of cycles in the future. Like it or not, I can see more and more folk taking to 2 wheels for all manner of reasons - fuel shortages / prices, health, environmental.

So are cycle lanes, wherever they are placed, just something we all need to get used to? I'd rather have cycle lanes than pillocks riding on the pavement. Though as has been pointed out, some don't know the difference.

I'd just take a zen acceptance approach. This government seems to be setting a green agenda. Any other government will too. I think they are here to stay. Maybe taking a uniform, standard approach to them, not just having paint on some, poles on another, concrete slabs on others, might help.

Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty

I'd just take a zen acceptance approach. This government seems to be setting a green agenda. Any other government will too. I think they are here to stay. Maybe taking a uniform, standard approach to them, not just having paint on some, poles on another, concrete slabs on others, might help.

Agree completely.....It's confusing for drivers and cyclists, when some towns paint their bike lanes green, some use orange, whilst others stick with black tarmac/white bike symbols. Some lanes are continuous, some even remain largely invisible being only painted across junction mouths.

Then there's width, where sublime to ridiculous applies - a 2ft wide lane is a joke, yet others can be found taking up half of the carriageway. Not to mention the silly right-angle turns painted in here and there, or dropped kerbs (if there is one!) located way too far from junctions. Poles and road signs can be found stuck smack-dab in the middle of on-pavement lanes.

Quality of surface is another area where bike paths frequently fall down. They should be of a similar smoothness to the road surface, not horribly 'ribbed', which are very uncomfortable to use and shake bikes to bits. All-in-all, not a pretty picture in anyone's book.....High time there was a proper national standard for Local Authorities to follow.

Originally Posted by The PNP

Agree completely.....It's confusing for drivers and cyclists, when some towns paint their bike lanes green, some use orange, whilst others stick with black tarmac/white bike symbols. Some lanes are continuous, some even remain largely invisible being only painted across junction mouths.

Then there's width, where sublime to ridiculous applies - a 2ft wide lane is a joke, yet others can be found taking up half of the carriageway. Not to mention the silly right-angle turns painted in here and there, or dropped kerbs (if there is one!) located way too far from junctions. Poles and road signs can be found stuck smack-dab in the middle of on-pavement lanes.

Quality of surface is another area where bike paths frequently fall down. They should be of a similar smoothness to the road surface, not horribly 'ribbed', which are very uncomfortable to use and shake bikes to bits. All-in-all, not a pretty picture in anyone's book.....High time there was a proper national standard for Local Authorities to follow.

Different towns? We don't even have a consistent format within Southport.

Originally Posted by salus.populi

How did you ascertain their integrity?
The count was organised on the Anti Cycle Lane Facebook group run by Conservative Councillor Sinclair Alburqerque and Damien Moore's caseworker and Meols ward candidate Thomas De Freitas.
You gave the counters to a member of that group who is evidently against the cycle lanes.
Alebuqerue was one of the counters.
This was hardly an objective independent survey. It was people with a clear agenda.
No party links? Read the first line of your report.

I find it quite pathetic that every issue has to be turned into a political fight. Surely there are cyclists who vote Conservative and others who vote Labour - and others who don't vote atall. Why does politics always have to raise its ugly head?

Originally Posted by salus.populi

I'd say a 24/7 camera installed and monitored by a University is more accurate and independent than people with an axe to grind standing on a corner for 5 hours on 1 day.

The camera they monitored faced down Chapel St precinct and recorded many pedestrians as cyclists.

Originally Posted by duncet

I find it quite pathetic that every issue has to be turned into a political fight. Surely there are cyclists who vote Conservative and others who vote Labour - and others who don't vote atall. Why does politics always have to raise its ugly head?

I don't think who you vote for is much of an issue most people can see with their own eyes the number of users.

Being told a number that is plainly at odds with the reality whether too high or low is bound to raise controversy.

Originally Posted by local

I don't think who you vote for is much of an issue most people can see with their own eyes the number of users.

Being told a number that is plainly at odds with the reality whether too high or low is bound to raise controversy.

The numbers (of people) prepared to cycle in a town, largely depends on how safe people feel when doing it......And people feel safest, when they are given separate tarmac.

However, to maximise the numbers riding in a town, it first needs a comprehensive joined-up network of safe routes. One or two basic routes is a good start, but that's all it is - a start.

Turn the tables for a moment and imagine if cars only had a couple of miles of roadway, how many people would want to use a car? Whereas in a town criss-crossed with hundreds of roads for cars, as ours is - almost everyone inevitably drives. A perfect example of 'build (enough of)
it and they will come'.

Originally Posted by editor

Attachment 205283

On October 1st Southport Conservative councillors and campaigners hit back at claims from Sefton Labour that ‘hundreds and thousands of cycle journeys’ have been made on the supposedly temporary cycle lane on Hoghton Street and Chapel Street.

Cabinet member, Cllr John Fairclough, has highlighted data that apparently shows a huge number of such journeys being made along the routes on Hoghton Street and Chapel Street. However, the claims are contested by many in Southport.

Qlocal provided a set of four clicker / counters for locals to do some of of their own counting and the report back was as follows:

We did our first cycle count today Thursday, October 14th between 8.30am and 1.30pm inclusive.

Grey day that threatened rain but was fine.

Total of 78 which was more than I thought we’d see!

We were counting all cyclists both ways on Hoghton St and both ways on Queen’s Rd. including the cyclists who rode past on the pavement! We also counted every time a cyclist passed us (including one gentleman who passed by four times that I saw!).

Interestingly, I saw 3 separate cyclists ride up Manchester Rd (no cycle lane) turning left on to Lords Street (again no cycle lane) when they could have used Hoghton Street cycle lane. Obviously they didn’t see the need.

A great many cyclists (12 that I saw) used the pavement rather than the cycle lane!

DOING THE MATHS

Total of 78 cyclists in a five hour period = 16 per hour

78 cyclists over five hours = One cyclist every 4 minutes

Even if 78 cyclists in day time was an average for a 24 hour day, the daily total would be 374 cyclists a day, or 2,618 a week, though everyone would doubt how much usage overnight.

One hundred thousand cyclists would take 38 weeks.

Waste of council tax as usual,the drains are blocked with all the leaves and roads flooded,this council cannot get its act together.

Originally Posted by tony 2 day

Waste of council tax as usual,the drains are blocked with all the leaves and roads flooded,this council cannot get its act together.

Wast of a planet, if we all keep driving......The sooner the town has a properly integrated network of safe routes for bikes, the sooner CO2 emissions will be reduced!

Originally Posted by The PNP

Wast of a planet, if we all keep driving......The sooner the town has a properly integrated network of safe routes for bikes, the sooner CO2 emissions will be reduced!

Arriva buses on strike this weekend so some will have to drive.

Originally Posted by tony 2 day

Arriva buses on strike this weekend so some will have to drive.

If the strike does go ahead, people will obviously have to find alternatives.....That could take several forms apart from driving, e.g. a taxi, walking, a lift from a friend/relative/neighbour - or even believe it or not, by cycling. And if some do decide to cycle, at least they'll know they won't be getting cut-up en-route by any busses!

Originally Posted by The PNP

If the strike does go ahead, people will obviously have to find alternatives.....That could take several forms apart from driving, e.g. a taxi, walking, a lift from a friend/relative/neighbour - or even believe it or not, by cycling. And if some do decide to cycle, at least they'll know they won't be getting cut-up en-route by any busses!

You really are a bigoted imbecile, aren’t you. Why would someone pay out for a taxi if they have a car of their own? If they get a lift, will that not also involve a car journey? I also notice that you’ve now decided to add bus drivers to your list of demonised drivers.

Originally Posted by justbecause

B) You really are a bigoted imbecile, aren’t you. Why would someone pay out for a taxi if they have a car of their own?

B) If they get a lift, will that not also involve a car journey?

C) I also notice that you’ve now decided to add bus drivers to your list of demonised drivers.

A) Don't know, you tell me....Fyi, there are bus-users who don't have (or want) a car and it's associated devaluation and endless expenses.

B) I doubt the person giving the lift, will want to let the passenger/s drive. Apart from anything else, their insurance probably wouldn't provide cover.

C) Bus drivers vary widely in standard, as do all drivers. I have personally witnessed a bus badly cut-up a perfectly innocent cyclist on Eastbank St. What he/she did was so appalling, I felt compelled to report the incident to Arriva.

Originally Posted by The PNP

A) Don't know, you tell me....Fyi, there are bus-users who don't have (or want) a car and it's associated devaluation and endless expenses.

B) I doubt the person giving the lift, will want to let the passenger/s drive. Apart from anything else, their insurance probably wouldn't provide cover.

C) Bus drivers vary widely in standard, as do all drivers. I have personally witnessed a bus badly cut-up a perfectly innocent cyclist on Eastbank St. What he/she did was so appalling, I felt compelled to report the incident to Arriva.

So you witnessed one bus driver cut up one cyclist, in all the years you’ve been a road user. Hardly epidemic proportions.
I’ll bet you enjoyed reporting the incident to Arriva, embellishments and all.