Sewage in our waterways

[Stuartli]

Rather sad you find a game of football more worrying than the wanton destruction of our wildlife and natural habitat.

Rather sad you missed a little bit of humour.

[Little Londoner]

There is one good thing that comes out of the vote, the Ewe that represents Southport voted with the rest of the Tory sheep he obviously did not want the Chief Ram climbing on his back, the sewage will feed the lawn that is being created between Southport and Ainsdale.

[local]

There is one good thing that comes out of the vote, the Ewe that represents Southport voted with the rest of the Tory sheep he obviously did not want the Chief Ram climbing on his back, the sewage will feed the lawn that is being created between Southport and Ainsdale.

Happy yet again to put a considerable amount of blame for that lawn on amongst others successive Conservative councils who "sold" our beach in their sand winning.

Also very very happy to wonder out loud what is the point of Damien Moore?

What does he stand for or believe?

he has the profile of a road hump, an inert irritation to progress.

[Snig's foot]

We currently have a water based sewage system. Whilst we have this then treated, and sometimes untreated sewage, are likely to be discharged into our waterways. Amendment 45, made by the House of Lords, was largely passed by the House of Commons in its second reading (not what you would be led to believe from our newspapers). The bit they rejected was this vague clause to 'take all reasonable steps to ensure that untreated sewage is not discharged from storm overflows....etc.' This would have been a passport to certain lawyers to sue the government, water companies, regulators on a regular basis.
The version of amendment 45 passed by the Commons in the 2nd reading says:
'41B Storm overflow discharge reduction plan
(1) The Secretary of State must prepare a plan for the purposes of—
(a) reducing discharges from the storm overflows of sewerage
undertakers whose area is wholly or mainly in England, and
(b) reducing the adverse impacts of those discharges.
(2) The reference in subsection (1)(a) to reducing discharges of sewage
includes—
(a) reducing the frequency and duration of the discharges, and
(b) reducing the volume of the discharges.
(3) The reference in subsection (1)(b) to reducing adverse impacts
includes—
(a) reducing adverse impacts on the environment, and
(b) reducing adverse impacts on public health,......etc, etc.'

It has details of establishing an improvement plan for each discharge point. You can read more in the current version of the bill at https://bills.parliament.uk/publicat.../documents/802

I think this is a version of means “to make improvements to their sewerage systems and demonstrate progressive reductions in the harm caused by discharges of untreated sewage.”

Locally UU have spent millions on reducing storm overflow discharges. In the case of Southport this was by a large interceptor tunnel built beneath the Promenade and on to the new sewage works at Southport.
The sewage works at Southport (which in my experience isn't very smelly) is of almost unique design, one of only a handful of 'deep shaft' wastewater treatment works (there are only 3 in the UK), expensive but effective. There have also been several storage tanks built around Southport to reduce storm discharges.

The cost of all these improvements (my road has new plastic water pipes to every property..how about yours?) has caused my water bill to go up seven fold in the 30 years I've been living here. As others have commented, besides the improvement works this helps pay the dividends of the water company (or not in the case of Thames), pay directors' salaries and provide jobs, etc. However the costs have been so enormous that all the water companies have been accumulating increasing levels of debt.

I've been involved in environmental improvements for many years...it must be 25 years ago that the students I was working with found some high levels of pollution downstream of a sewage works. I had to dilute the sample 20 fold to get an ammonia reading on scale. We presented our figures to the newly formed Environment Agency...who then took their own samples at the same time and day of the week as ours...resulting in a hefty fine for Wessex Water.

[Toodles McGinty]

If they get fined, they pass the cost onto the customer. Shareholders keep raking it in. It's also, as a consumer, difficult to get any complaints heard.

My water meter is in the road, about 40 meters away from my property. Water bills were sky high. I asked to have a meter put into my building. Not a huge job, but it took over a year, and the intervention of OFWAT, to achieve. They admitted there's probably a leak in the pipe between the meter and my home. Reimbursed me to the tune of a grand.

Have they fixed the leak? Nah. I assume they'll act if / when a sink hole appears.

Saw an amusing tweet this morning:

[Toodles McGinty]

Director of the Environment Agency went on TV this morning, and said that all of England's rivers now present a health hazard for people and people should avoid swimming in them. Not a single river safe. Not. One.

When Thatcher sold off our water, her main argument was that the Victorian infrastructure needed private investment to upgrade it all.

The Thatcher government took a number of steps which were all calculated to boost the profitability of the privatised water companies, at the expense of either the taxpayer or the consumer. The government wrote off all the debts of the water companies before privatisation, worth over £5 billion pounds. In addition, it gave the companies a ‘green dowry’ of £1.6 billion pounds.

The amount paid to shareholders between 1991 and 2019 amount to £57bn – nearly half the sum they spent on maintaining and improving the country’s pipes and treatment plants in that period.

A number of companies deliberately cut their investment programmes and used the ‘savings to maintain or increase their dividends. The companies which did this include Thames Water, North west water (now UU), and Yorkshire Water.

How far are we from boiling our drinking water? How far are we from wiping out the wildlife in our waters entirely?

Not only does this make me angry, it is deeply, deeply saddening.

[sandGroundZero]

England’s Environment Agency has told its staff to “shut down” and ignore reports of low-impact pollution events because it does not have enough money to investigate them, according to a leaked internal report.

[The PNP]

England’s Environment Agency has told its staff to “shut down” and ignore reports of low-impact pollution events because it does not have enough money to investigate them, according to a leaked internal report.

Well, I guess as we're no longer obliged to maintain our beaches, rivers and waterways to EU standards, anything now goes - duh!

[local]

Well, I guess as we're no longer obliged to maintain our beaches, rivers and waterways to EU standards, anything now goes - duh!

Another example of poor knowledge and misinformation.

You and Bensherman are connected?


The "level playing field" provisions in the UK/EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement1 ("TCA") cover a number of areas of law, including environment and climate.2 The environment chapter applies to industrial emissions, air, nature and biodiversity, waste management, the aquatic and marine environments, chemicals and the management of impacts on the environment from agricultural or food production.
C&P

[sandGroundZero]

local

"Another example of poor knowledge and misinformation. "You and Bensherman are connected? "The "level playing field" provisions in the UK/EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement ("TCA") cover a number of areas of law, including environment and climate. The environment chapter applies to industrial emissions, air, nature and biodiversity, waste management, the aquatic and marine environments, chemicals and the management of impacts on the environment from agricultural or food production."

Which nicely explains the Environment Agency's budget trimming!

[local]

local

"Another example of poor knowledge and misinformation. "You and Bensherman are connected? "The "level playing field" provisions in the UK/EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement ("TCA") cover a number of areas of law, including environment and climate. The environment chapter applies to industrial emissions, air, nature and biodiversity, waste management, the aquatic and marine environments, chemicals and the management of impacts on the environment from agricultural or food production."

Which nicely explains the Environment Agency's budget trimming!

A weak swerve,
you could though tell us if you agree with PNP's comment ?

Originally Posted by The PNP View Post
Well, I guess as we're no longer obliged to maintain our beaches, rivers and waterways to EU standards, anything now goes - duh!

[local]

Privatisation has been badly governed of that there is no doubt, the previous creaking infrastructure was ignored by successive mainly Conservative governments for years.

There have been significant improvements in the infrastructure but not enough and at too great a cost.

Below does give an industry slanted view but it is helpful nonetheless.


https://www.water.org.uk/blog-post/t...tion-achieved/


I certainly remember just how bad it was.

[said]

Lake Windermere is also becoming a cesspit.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...logically-dead

All the tourist areas of the Lake District is - you now have to go to the more out of the way places there. I went in summer last year - I was so disheartened by the place - the scenery is one of nature's best - but it has been totally ruined. It is now full of hooligans and track suited chavs each having a pack of dogs - and not one pickup bag between them.

[said]

I've been involved in environmental improvements for many years...it must be 25 years ago that the students I was working with found some high levels of pollution downstream of a sewage works. I had to dilute the sample 20 fold to get an ammonia reading on scale. We presented our figures to the newly formed Environment Agency...who then took their own samples at the same time and day of the week as ours...resulting in a hefty fine for Wessex Water.[/QUOTE]

Very interesting - thankyou. It is the drinking water which seems to have deteriorated though - I use bottled water for drinking as often as I can.

[said]

Privatisation has been badly governed of that there is no doubt, the previous creaking infrastructure was ignored by successive mainly Conservative governments for years.

There have been significant improvements in the infrastructure but not enough and at too great a cost.

Below does give an industry slanted view but it is helpful nonetheless.


https://www.water.org.uk/blog-post/t...tion-achieved/


I certainly remember just how bad it was.

Yes, but water bills have increased enormously. My water bill is 2/3rds that of my electricity bill - yet water is free, electricity is not.

When the waterways were privatised, the Farmers were prevented from managing their own drainage as they had always done - the environment Agency put a stop to it and the situation has grown worse for flooding. The same agency has been closing down some of the pumping stations too - just to save money.