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  1. libraryguy says:02/11/2021 08:42 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by lawed143 View Post
    The majority of those residents haven’t a clue what they’ve clicked. Just No no no without a care for anything or anyone else. Very selfish me me me, not in my backyard.
    Why wouldn’t you choose quieter, safer alternatives, that help to save the planet?

    Buy a car, to sit in the queue, to get to the job, and work long hours, to pay for the car. Wow that makes sense. All to just keep up with the neighbours and friends, and appear to be successful. Drive a machine to the gym, to run on a machine for 20 mins and yet complain when there’s so much traffic it takes you longer to get there than the time you spend there…..

    If you cycle or walk, you’re not successful or worthy of safe passage apparently.

    These selfish people live among us.
    I'd buy an electric car if I could, but I can't charge it as I live upstairs in a block of flats. I have recently got a hybrid, so don't start going on about choosing safer alternatives.

    Yes people do work long hours, and they don't want to have to exert MORE energy on a bike to get home at the end of the day, it's raining and cold in the winter, especially if they live 10 miles or more form their place of work. They work long hours to provide for their family so why shouldn't they have a nice car that they like to drive.

    It's not up to you or anyone else to preach to them on what car they should buy.

    As for clicking NO NO NO, as a car driver myself I am more than aware of what congestion AND POLLUTION these proposals will cause - more vehicles sat in stationary / congested traffic or having to drive a longer route - all causing more pollution in the air, which is something you (and I) are keen to reduce.

    The survery hasn't gone your way so you're upset.

    Ah diddums!

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  4. libraryguy says:02/11/2021 08:46 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by lawed143 View Post
    You show me the evidence that they’ve made an educated decision.
    Still harping on about the PNP thing? What stupid and moronic bullsh*T you are coming out with. Any actual evidence? Touché
    You show us all the evidence they didn't?

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  6. lawed143 says:02/11/2021 08:52 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by libraryguy View Post
    And what evidence do you have that this was the case? You are thwarting the will of the people, of those who have responded to this survery. It clearly states that those who responded to the survey do NOT want any of the plans put forward to be realised.

    THIS is how democracy works, not in your warped twisted mind to have things your own way every single time and sod everyone else.

    As for cycling... I saw a young man on his bike cycling down Hoghton Street last night - on the pavement all the way!! No lights on at all front or rear. The cycle lane is right next to him and he still couldn't use it!

    And you wonder why we get angry and frustrated!
    Is it a coincidence that there is a bookface group of 700 members, and there are also around 700 “very unhappy” people answering the survey questions. These people are bigoted, educated by fear on social media. 700 isn’t a representative group, and it’s certainly not a majority, as there were also similar numbers in favour of the scheme.

    As this isn’t a democratic survey, but rather a consultation, you can’t harp on about the will of the people. The will of the people is decide at the ballot box.

    Also, why are you getting angry at something which doesn’t affect you.? Calm down a bit.

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  8. lawed143 says:02/11/2021 09:00 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by libraryguy View Post
    I'd buy an electric car if I could, but I can't charge it as I live upstairs in a block of flats. I have recently got a hybrid, so don't start going on about choosing safer alternatives.

    Yes people do work long hours, and they don't want to have to exert MORE energy on a bike to get home at the end of the day, it's raining and cold in the winter, especially if they live 10 miles or more form their place of work. They work long hours to provide for their family so why shouldn't they have a nice car that they like to drive.

    It's not up to you or anyone else to preach to them on what car they should buy.

    As for clicking NO NO NO, as a car driver myself I am more than aware of what congestion AND POLLUTION these proposals will cause - more vehicles sat in stationary / congested traffic or having to drive a longer route - all causing more pollution in the air, which is something you (and I) are keen to reduce.

    The survery hasn't gone your way so you're upset.

    Ah diddums!
    ELECTRIC CARS DONT RESOLVE THE PROBLEM. Electric cars still kill, pollute and clutter. You’ve been mislead by bookface and the car industry the electric cars are the answer to all our problems, they are not. Time to wake up and use your brain rather than be brainwashed.

    As for the survey, I think you’ll find it didn’t really swing one way or the other. You are claiming success, but look again, it wasn’t as clear cut as you think. Again, not engaging brain, just seeing what you want to see……

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  10. libraryguy says:02/11/2021 09:03 AM
    A conultation is still an exercise in gaining public opinion, and the public opinion of those who took part appears to conclude that it's not wanted in those areas of Southport. What is the point in having a consutation if you ignore the results?

    I would like to think I answered the survey impartially, maybe some of my answers might have been swayed by what I have read from other contributers. However, I am not a member of the FB groups.

    The consultation is still the opinion of the people who chose to answer. Don't ignore it.

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  12. marky says:02/11/2021 09:05 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by lawed143 View Post
    The majority of those residents haven’t a clue what they’ve clicked. Just No no no without a care for anything or anyone else. Very selfish me me me, not in my backyard. Why wouldn’t you choose quieter, safer alternatives, that help to save the planet? Buy a car, to sit in the queue, to get to the job, and work long hours, to pay for the car. Wow that makes sense. All to just keep up with the neighbours and friends, and appear to be successful. Drive a machine to the gym, to run on a machine for 20 mins and yet complain when there’s so much traffic it takes you longer to get there than the time you spend there….. If you cycle or walk, you’re not successful or worthy of safe passage apparently. These selfish people live among us.
    While the misguided, self-righteous zealots sit on the sidelines - missing the whole point of the REAL world.

    People will ALWAYS drive machines. You seem to be forgetting that the only thing that's changing is the end to reliance on fossil fuels to power them. They won't go away, get smaller or stop posing a threat to cyclists who think they own the title-deeds to every stretch of tarmac in Christendom.

    Your view, and that of similarly-minded flat-earth dwellers is that cycling, walking, knitting hemp jumpers and farting clouds of mung bean gas is the ONLY way forward. The view of the pragmatic majority is a lot, lot different. And that's the bit you REALLY hate, isn't it? It's the fact that too many people aren't buying your spiteful, self-righteous garbage.

    Please go away and plait some herb stems - or whatever adds peace to your existance. The rest of us will keep the lights on, the shleves stacked and the bins emptied - while trying to avoid the nutters in lycra.

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  14. libraryguy says:02/11/2021 09:07 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by lawed143 View Post
    ELECTRIC CARS DONT RESOLVE THE PROBLEM. Electric cars still kill, pollute and clutter. You’ve been mislead by bookface and the car industry the electric cars are the answer to all our problems, they are not. Time to wake up and use your brain rather than be brainwashed.

    As for the survey, I think you’ll find it didn’t really swing one way or the other. You are claiming success, but look again, it wasn’t as clear cut as you think. Again, not engaging brain, just seeing what you want to see……
    So you want to ban cars altogether? How the hell is that democratic? And you says I'M the one who's being branwashed?

    As for the survery, while I admit haven't read it fully, in depth, I can see from initial viewing that the majority of the questions around Southport have a line that is way out in front for the response of STONGLY DISAGREE.

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  16. lawed143 says:02/11/2021 09:13 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by libraryguy View Post
    So you want to ban cars altogether? How the hell is that democratic? And you says I'M the one who's being branwashed?

    As for the survery, while I admit haven't read it fully, in depth, I can see from initial viewing that the majority of the questions around Southport have a line that is way out in front for the response of STONGLY DISAGREE.
    No. Stop making things up again.
    Driving is part of life, but doesn’t have to be part of everything we do. We can choose alternatives. At the moment, people don’t because those alternatives are unsafe. If more people can walk, or cycle, everyone wins. Stop being dumb.

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  18. justbecause says:02/11/2021 09:13 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by lawed143 View Post
    You show me the evidence that they’ve made an educated decision.
    Still harping on about the PNP thing? What stupid and moronic bullsh*T you are coming out with. Any actual evidence? Touché
    No, YOU show me the evidence that they haven’t made an educated decision.
    You are assuming that because the view of the majority of respondents doesn’t match yours, they are less intelligent than you.

    If you’d bothered to read my comment properly, I wasn’t harping on about “the PNP thing”. What I said was that you may or may not be PNP, (personally, I couldn’t care less one way or the other). When it comes to posting though, you do reiterate the opinions of many on here, in that you equally as stupid and bigoted as he is.
    Last edited by justbecause; 02/11/2021 at 10:04 AM.

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  20. salus.populi says:02/11/2021 10:05 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by editor View Post

    The most popular response to the following questions were ‘agree’ or ‘strongly agree

    Should Sefton Council act in local neighbourhoods to;
    • Improve air quality / reduce pollution from vehicles
    • Reduce traffic noise
    • Reduce traffic congestion / traffic jams
    • Improve the safety of the roads


    The most popular response to the following questions were ‘disagree’ or
    strongly disagree

    Do you agree or disagree with changing roads and paths to give more space
    to people walking and cycling
    • Changing of road space - In Sefton generally
    • Changing of road space - In your local area / neighbourhood

    So to summarise people want fewer cars on the road as long as there's no restriction or inconvenience on their own car usage.

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  22. Alikado says:02/11/2021 12:17 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by libraryguy View Post
    A conultation is still an exercise in gaining public opinion, and the public opinion of those who took part appears to conclude that it's not wanted in those areas of Southport. What is the point in having a consutation if you ignore the results?

    I would like to think I answered the survey impartially, maybe some of my answers might have been swayed by what I have read from other contributers. However, I am not a member of the FB groups.

    The consultation is still the opinion of the people who chose to answer. Don't ignore it.
    Is it?

    There is evidence the the survey has been hijacked, if those results were to be removed the results would look very different.

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  24. justbecause says:02/11/2021 12:28 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Alikado View Post
    Is it?

    There is evidence the the survey has been hijacked, if those results were to be removed the results would look very different.
    I don’t really think that the rubbish spouted by Labour Gobsh*te Fairclough actually amounts to evidence.

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  26. local says:02/11/2021 01:38 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by salus.populi View Post
    So to summarise people want fewer cars on the road as long as there's no restriction or inconvenience on their own car usage.


    Of course,

    nimbyism is alive and kicking and most councils use it to get what they want.

    These Council surveys are classic nimby bate.

    Personally I would like the road outside my house carpeting and my neighbours moved away.

    The reality that my neighbours do useful things for society and need to get there often quickly means we all have to be realistic.

    A bike lane for me that holds up essential services for the majority is simply not equitable.

    I shall carry on cycling and walking when it works but I cannot impose my lifestyle on others when they are paying for me to use my bike.

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  28. libraryguy says:02/11/2021 02:15 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Alikado View Post
    Is it?

    There is evidence the the survey has been hijacked, if those results were to be removed the results would look very different.
    Prove it? And not just the IP addresse(s).

    How different? I expect you think if there was evidence of "tampering" the "strongly disagree" line would drastically fall? Tampering could be for or against the question, so you have no idea how the results would look if you removed the "evidence based" deliberate tampering of the answers.

    Provide the evidence then let's see how the survery looks!

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  30. Anon says:02/11/2021 02:23 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by lawed143 View Post

    Buy a car, to sit in the queue, to get to the job, and work long hours, to pay for the car. Wow that makes sense. All to just keep up with the neighbours and friends, and appear to be successful. Drive a machine to the gym, to run on a machine for 20 mins and yet complain when there’s so much traffic it takes you longer to get there than the time you spend there…..
    I did a minimum 60 mile round trip for 28 years. In the first 6-7 years of that, I did a lot more than that because it was part of the job.

    And yes I sat in queues and worked long hours. And I didn't pay for the car, they provided one for me because it was essential for me to do my job.

    It wasn't to keep up with anyone. It was so I could work in an industry in which I wanted to work and work for the company for which I wanted to work. I didn't care if people thought I was successful or not. I just wanted to pay the bills and look after my family.

    If I could have done the same job for the same company in Southport, I would have done but I worked out of their nearest office.


    I drive to the gym to do 45-60 mins exercise. If the public transport was better, and actually went anywhere near the gym, I'd use that instead. But it doesn't.


    Some of us aren't able to use bikes. My arthritic hip does not allow me to do so.

    Before the virus arrived, I used to get the bus into town. Now I just don't go into town.

    So many of us select the correct method of transport for our needs at the time of travel. I think this is just realistic and common sense. You aren't going to get thousands of people suddenly using bikes just because there are cycle lanes. They will continue to use the best method of transport depending on their particular journey.

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