The Saga of Sefton Cycle Lanes

[The PNP]

To summarise the cycling lane saga, points we all agree on, even you.

Cycling is not possible for a proportion of the public.
Cycling is not practical for a larger proportion of the public.
Cycling in inclement weather is far from everyone's cup of tea, only for those with no option, or the most dedicated.
Cycling is utterly useless for transportation of anything of size or weight.
Road cyclists are not wholly in favour of cycle lanes/tracks.
We know that a fair number cycle to school or to rail stations for onward commute, they will obviously continue to do so as it suits their purpose

This raises the point, just who are these cycle lanes actually being built for?

A good proportion of the general public have no use for them whatsoever, yet you would love to riddle our little linear town with cycle lanes, to what purpose?

You babble on about cycling saving the planet, the answer will/must come from more efficient and cleaner power generation, a few bikes are going to make little or no difference.

The new lanes will form part of a network which when completed, will enable far more folk to use their bikes, thus saving on CO2. Usage figures elsewhere, show that when a network of quality cycleways exists, about 30% of all trips are made by bike.

Not sure what 'power generation' has got to do with cycle-lanes tbh.

[Little Londoner]

Not sure what 'power generation' has got to do with cycle-lanes tbh.

Not very bright are you, you keep harping on about getting everyone on a bike to save the planet but you can't connect cycle lanes with power generation.

Yesterday I travelled down Southport Rd Scarisbrick cycle lanes BOTH sides not ONE cyclist spotted I also used the Tarleton By-Pass cycle lanes BOTH sides not ONE cyclist spotted later in the day I used the Coast Rd from Pleasureland to Ainsdale then the Formby by-pass from Woodvale to Ince Blundell BOTH have cycle lanes the by-pass BOTH sides not ONE cyclists spotted.
So if the traffic flow of Southport is completely fouled up as it will be with the Sefton proposals encouraged by idiots like you and the cycle lanes follow the normal trend then it will be a complete and utter waste of time and money which would be better used on Policing driving and upgrading driving tuition and driving assessment.

As the majority of cyclists are teenage or early twenty's and have no consideration for anyone or anything and don't use the roads spending every penny available on Cycle Paths will have ZERO impact as far as they are concerned.

[local]

It might be sensible to look at the effect of cycle lanes on Dutch traffic they have an up and running disastrous model with huge polluting delays.


On yer bike...............


Just no Zil lanes.

[The PNP]

A) Not very bright are you, you keep harping on about getting everyone on a bike to save the planet but you can't connect cycle lanes with power generation.

B) As the majority of cyclists are teenage or early twenty's and have no consideration for anyone or anything and don't use the roads spending every penny available on Cycle Paths will have ZERO impact as far as they are concerned.

A) The only connection I can fathom, is with e-bikes ('leccy bikes). Takeup of e-bikes is constantly accelerating, so an ever-greater percentage of bikes will be electric in the coming years. Therefore, the various methods of generating power will be increasingly relevant.

B) The creation of cycle-lanes/paths is not only aimed at people who already use a bike, but most importantly to help newcomers to the bike to get about safely in the coming years.

Until the average person perceives bikes to be a safe form of transport, few of them will be tempted to 'get on their bikes'.

[silver fox]

The new lanes will form part of a network which when completed, will enable far more folk to use their bikes, thus saving on CO2. Usage figures elsewhere, show that when a network of quality cycleways exists, about 30% of all trips are made by bike.

Not sure what 'power generation' has got to do with cycle-lanes tbh.

Power generation or power sources whether they be direct electrical generation or motive power units have everything to do with the overall picture.

Clean power sources will allow more electrically powered vehicles and hopefully more clean auto motive power units will permit low or zero emission vehicles to continue, but of course this doesn't fit your fantasy nirvana of getting rid of cars, to be replaced by bikes.

It would be ironic if developments to reduce emissions actually lead to a new generation of vehicles, which in turn could lead to more cars on the road rather than less, but of course this doesn't fit your blinkered agenda, your only desire is to kill the private car and get everyone on a bike, the environment concerns are just something to hang your particular hat on.

Your wishful, naive belief that wrecking the road system with cycle lanes will suddenly develop a cavalcade of happy, clappy cyclists, is just a pipe dream.

[local]

The climate cannot stand the huge increase in Co2 caused by cycle lanes.


We have the example in the Netherlands we don't need to make the same mistake as them.

Thankfully our self-appointed cycling spokesperson PNP has alerted us to the problems the Netherlands has.

[The PNP]

A) Power generation or power sources whether they be direct electrical generation or motive power units have everything to do with the overall picture.

Clean power sources will allow more electrically powered vehicles and hopefully more clean auto motive power units will permit low or zero emission vehicles to continue, but of course this doesn't fit your fantasy nirvana of getting rid of cars, to be replaced by bikes.

It would be ironic if developments to reduce emissions actually lead to a new generation of vehicles, which in turn could lead to more cars on the road rather than less, but of course this doesn't fit your blinkered agenda, your only desire is to kill the private car and get everyone on a bike, the environment concerns are just something to hang your particular hat on.

B) Your wishful, naive belief that wrecking the road system with cycle lanes will suddenly develop a cavalcade of happy, clappy cyclists, is just a pipe dream.

A) Looking to e-cars ('leccy cars) as the solution to the CO2 crisis anytime soon, is sadly just wishful thinking. Windpower accounts for only around 20% of the UK's annual generated power, meaning up to 80% of the charge loaded into an e-cars battery, will have been responsible for emitting CO2 at source.

The price of e-cars is another factor, putting them out of reach of many people. Whereas a person can grab themselves a used fossil-fuel-powered 'runner' for £1k or so, used e-cars cost way more. Not to mention that an early-model used e-car will have a 'half-shot' battery, which will cost a real packet to replace....Nah, e-cars for the average Joe are a non-starter.

B) I don't see how replacing a strip of parking spaces 'wrecks' a road system, since traffic flows uninterrupted just as before. If a town needs more parking spaces, it should create more car-parks....Not let parked cars continue to hog the edges of roads, edges which are now needed for expanding networks of safe cycle routes.

[local]

A) Looking to e-cars ('leccy cars) as the solution to the CO2 crisis anytime soon, is sadly just wishful thinking. Windpower accounts for only around 20% of the UK's annual generated power, meaning up to 80% of the charge loaded into an e-cars battery, will have been responsible for emitting CO2 at source.

The price of e-cars is another factor, putting them out of reach of many people. Whereas a person can grab themselves a used fossil-fuel-powered 'runner' for £1k or so, used e-cars cost way more. Not to mention that an early-model used e-car will have a 'half-shot' battery, which will cost a real packet to replace....Nah, e-cars for the average Joe are a non-starter.

B) I don't see how replacing a strip of parking spaces 'wrecks' a road system, since traffic flows uninterrupted just as before. If a town needs more parking spaces, it should create more car-parks....Not let parked cars continue to hog the edges of roads, edges which are now needed for expanding networks of safe cycle routes.

Isn't it a good job you have alerted us to the Netherlands and we can see how bad their traffic is, the pollution must be terrible.

Anybody genuinely concerned about the environment will be horrified by the Netherlands example.

Thankfully people are waking up to this disaster before its too late.

[silver fox]

A) Looking to e-cars ('leccy cars) as the solution to the CO2 crisis anytime soon, is sadly just wishful thinking. Windpower accounts for only around 20% of the UK's annual generated power, meaning up to 80% of the charge loaded into an e-cars battery, will have been responsible for emitting CO2 at source.

The price of e-cars is another factor, putting them out of reach of many people. Whereas a person can grab themselves a used fossil-fuel-powered 'runner' for £1k or so, used e-cars cost way more. Not to mention that an early-model used e-car will have a 'half-shot' battery, which will cost a real packet to replace....Nah, e-cars for the average Joe are a non-starter.

B) I don't see how replacing a strip of parking spaces 'wrecks' a road system, since traffic flows uninterrupted just as before. If a town needs more parking spaces, it should create more car-parks....Not let parked cars continue to hog the edges of roads, edges which are now needed for expanding networks of safe cycle routes.

When the first cars appeared they were the preserve of only the wealthy, they were inefficient, prone to breakdown and not very durable, modern technology moves much quicker than then, plus of course, I don't lay all faith in electric cars, other fuels, hydrogen for instance can extend the life of the internal combustion engine, you would hate that, in fact I am convinced your only aim is the restriction or removal of the private car, to be replaced with bikes, the environment is secondary.

Your last para is purely opinion, not universal desire by a hell of a long way.

[The PNP]

When the first cars appeared they were the preserve of only the wealthy, they were inefficient, prone to breakdown and not very durable, modern technology moves much quicker than then, plus of course, I don't lay all faith in electric cars, other fuels, hydrogen for instance can extend the life of the internal combustion engine, you would hate that, in fact I am convinced your only aim is the restriction or removal of the private car, to be replaced with bikes, the environment is secondary.

Your last para is purely opinion, not universal desire by a hell of a long way.

Hydrogen cars aren't in the showrooms yet. When they do appear, price will still be a major issue for the average person. Whereas e-bikes ('leccyy bikes) are readily available right now - and prices start at less than £1k!

[local]

Hydrogen cars aren't in the showrooms yet. When they do appear, price will still be a major issue for the average person. Whereas e-bikes ('leccyy bikes) are readily available right now - and prices start at less than £1k!

All bikes are useful from saved from scrapyards to new fangly electric ones

its just don't build Zil lanes through the streets for them.

As we have seen in the Netherlands it leads to another environmental disaster the planet can do without.

Sorting one problem out for a minority ie me at the expense of the majority and increasing pollution and delays in the process is clearly shown by the Netherlands to not help the climate crisis.

You must try and think beyond yourself and think of others.

Just as with your killer stoves great for you but not for everyone else.

[The PNP]

A) All bikes are useful from saved from scrapyards to new fangly electric ones

its just don't build Zil lanes through the streets for them.

B) As we have seen in the Netherlands it leads to another environmental disaster the planet can do without.

Sorting one problem out for a minority ie me at the expense of the majority and increasing pollution and delays in the process is clearly shown by the Netherlands to not help the climate crisis.

C)You must try and think beyond yourself and think of others.

D)Just as with your killer stoves great for you but not for everyone else.

A) 'Zil' lanes are essential, if we're to get more people to see the bike as a viable and safe alternative to the car for every little trip.

B) Disagree....Approx 30% of trips in NL are currently made by bike. If those trips were made by car instead, as is done here, traffic and pollution would be even worse.

C) I am thinking of others, in particular those who would get on a bike, but don't do because they are scared of riding in with the traffic. E.g. it beggars belief that anyone would consider our roads currently safe enough to send young kids to school on bikes. Whereas in NL, thanks to their safe cycleways, that is the norm.

D) Stoves are indeed great - we're enjoying a toasty 25c here!

[silver fox]

A) 'Zil' lanes are essential, if we're to get more people to see the bike as a viable and safe alternative to the car for every little trip.

B) Disagree....Approx 30% of trips in NL are currently made by bike. If those trips were made by car instead, as is done here, traffic and pollution would be even worse.

C) I am thinking of others, in particular those who would get on a bike, but don't do because they are scared of riding in with the traffic. E.g. it beggars belief that anyone would consider our roads currently safe enough to send young kids to school on bikes. Whereas in NL, thanks to their safe cycleways, that is the norm.

D) Stoves are indeed great!

You have only one track in your mind, remove the car and replace it with bikes, your environmental concerns are very secondary, it may surprise you to find that you are very much in a minority, just because you think you know best does not make it so.

We all accept, even you, that the bike is not a reliable, practical replacement for a car, it has limited use and usefulness, it is out of the question for a large percentage of the population, personally in a town like Southport I believe there are more who simply can't switch to a bike, than those who wish to do so, but in your book everyone must follow your dictat.

[The PNP]

You have only one track in your mind, remove the car and replace it with bikes, your environmental concerns are very secondary, it may surprise you to find that you are very much in a minority, just because you think you know best does not make it so.

We all accept, even you, that the bike is not a reliable, practical replacement for a car, it has limited use and usefulness, it is out of the question for a large percentage of the population, personally in a town like Southport I believe there are more who simply can't switch to a bike, than those who wish to do so, but in your book everyone must follow your dictat.

Not so.

I do believe it's theoretically possible for up to 50% of all trips people make, to be made by bike. Of course to achieve anything like that, would first require a quite amazing network of separate cycle tarmac. In practice however, I accept that around 30% of all trips by bike, is the most we're ever likely to see.

Even 30% takeup, a figure achieved elsewhere thanks to really good bike infrastructure, is well worth having. Not only getting a third of all cars off the roads, but reducing CO2 by a similar amount. And let's not forget the health benefits to the population, which in turn lightens the load on the NHS - so wins all round!

[said]

A) The only connection I can fathom, is with e-bikes ('leccy bikes). Takeup of e-bikes is constantly accelerating, so an ever-greater percentage of bikes will be electric in the coming years. Therefore, the various methods of generating power will be increasingly relevant.

B) The creation of cycle-lanes/paths is not only aimed at people who already use a bike, but most importantly to help newcomers to the bike to get about safely in the coming years.

Until the average person perceives bikes to be a safe form of transport, few of them will be tempted to 'get on their bikes'.

Yes,, that's a thing! Are those on electric bikes supposed to use cycle lanes too? When electric bikes go faster in town than cars are allowed to go?