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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Region View Post
    A vaccine campaign is a public health policy. We live in families, communities and society. Vaccines facilitate societal living. A vaccine's aim is to prevent and/or lessen - not to harm!

    I can imagine anti-vaxxers likening a mandatory vaccination to 'being stabbed', etc. They'd probably seek 'justice' against a surgeon who'd saved their life for 'wounding with intent' and want the anaesthetist done for 'intoxicating' them!

    If there were an online referendum with the choices being vaccination optional vs vaccination mandatory I feel the mandatory option would be the clear winner.

    Mercury (Thimersol)is used as a binding agent in vaccines!

    "The controversy regarding the once widely used mercury-containing preservative thimerosal in childhood vaccines has raised many historical questions that have not been adequately explored. Why was this preservative incorporated in the first place? Was there any real evidence that it caused harm? And how did thimerosal become linked in the public mind to the “autism epidemic”?I examine the origins of the thimerosal controversy and their legacy for the debate that has followed. More specifically, I explore the parallel histories of three factors that converged to create the crisis: vaccine preservatives, mercury poisoning, and autism.
    An understanding of this history provides important lessons for physicians and policymakers seeking to preserve the public’s trust in the nation’s vaccine system." NCBI

    "What happens if mercury gets in your bloodstream?




    If inorganic mercury enters your bloodstream, it can attack the
    kidneys and brain
    . Permanent kidney damage and kidney
    failure may occur. A large amount in the bloodstream may cause
    massive blood and fluid loss from diarrhea and kidney
    failure, leading to death."

    "Thimerosal, as a preservative, is no longer contained in any childhood vaccine, with the exception of the influenza vaccine."

    That is only one heavy metal used!










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  3. #77
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    Prof haven't we had this science stuff conversation before?

    There's not much point doing a C&P without some context

    The preservative ain't in the Covid 19 vaccine it is interesting what it is in though.

    Oh did I mention thimerosal is in fact a preservative?

    There are many types of mercury.

    It is one of the half-baked anti-vaxxers voodoo ingredients.

    Why not look it up for yourself?

  4. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    Prof haven't we had this science stuff conversation before?

    There's not much point doing a C&P without some context

    The preservative ain't in the Covid 19 vaccine it is interesting what it is in though.

    Oh did I mention thimerosal is in fact a preservative?

    There are many types of mercury.

    It is one of the half-baked anti-vaxxers voodoo ingredients.

    Why not look it up for yourself?
    Let's put it this way - two younger members of my family had a vaccine. They were very healthy before the vaccination. They were only a few months old and they had to be hospitalised, they nearly died. Mine were not the only ones affected, some were a lot worse off.

    There is far too much evidence against injecting foreign substances into your blood stream than there is for it. Humans have survived for thousands of years relying on their own immune system which is very efficient - why should it be any different now, just because pharmaceutical companies have many large investors and make huge profits should not change how humans have developed.

  5. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alikado View Post
    The YouGov surveys I filled in only paid pence just goes to show my opinion doesn't matter.


    2 minutes is long enough for any survey.

  6. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    Mercury (Thimersol)is used as a binding agent in vaccines!

    "The controversy regarding the once widely used mercury-containing preservative thimerosal in childhood vaccines has raised many historical questions that have not been adequately explored. Why was this preservative incorporated in the first place? Was there any real evidence that it caused harm? And how did thimerosal become linked in the public mind to the “autism epidemic”?I examine the origins of the thimerosal controversy and their legacy for the debate that has followed. More specifically, I explore the parallel histories of three factors that converged to create the crisis: vaccine preservatives, mercury poisoning, and autism.
    An understanding of this history provides important lessons for physicians and policymakers seeking to preserve the public’s trust in the nation’s vaccine system." NCBI

    "What happens if mercury gets in your bloodstream?




    If inorganic mercury enters your bloodstream, it can attack the
    kidneys and brain
    . Permanent kidney damage and kidney
    failure may occur. A large amount in the bloodstream may cause
    massive blood and fluid loss from diarrhea and kidney
    failure, leading to death."

    "Thimerosal, as a preservative, is no longer contained in any childhood vaccine, with the exception of the influenza vaccine."

    That is only one heavy metal used!





    The connection between vaccines and autism has been debunked in over a dozen separate studies.

    "In 2010, the General Medical Counsel declared that the paper was not only based on bad science, but was deliberate fraud and falsifications by the head researchers, Dr. Andrew Wakefield and revoked his medical license. Investigators learned that a lawyer looking for a link between the vaccine and autism had paid Wakefield more than £435,000 (equal to more than a half-million dollars)."

    The CDC conducted or paid for nine different studies looking at thimerosal and autism. It found no link.

    What’s more, autism diagnoses continued to rise after vaccine makers took thimerosal out of almost all childhood vaccines.

    And as local said, it isn't in the Covid vaccines.

    Proper little Gerty Gullible, aren't you? Any, and I do mean any, nutjob theory is like catnip to you. You witter on about 'mainstream media' yet you lap up any old bollocks some My Little Pony loving neckbeard types on Reddit when they are drunk.

    Gerty Gullible.

  7. Likes donkey22 liked this post
  8. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty View Post
    The connection between vaccines and autism has been debunked in over a dozen separate studies.

    "In 2010, the General Medical Counsel declared that the paper was not only based on bad science, but was deliberate fraud and falsifications by the head researchers, Dr. Andrew Wakefield and revoked his medical license. Investigators learned that a lawyer looking for a link between the vaccine and autism had paid Wakefield more than £435,000 (equal to more than a half-million dollars)."

    The CDC conducted or paid for nine different studies looking at thimerosal and autism. It found no link.

    What’s more, autism diagnoses continued to rise after vaccine makers took thimerosal out of almost all childhood vaccines.

    And as local said, it isn't in the Covid vaccines.

    Proper little Gerty Gullible, aren't you? Any, and I do mean any, nutjob theory is like catnip to you. You witter on about 'mainstream media' yet you lap up any old bollocks some My Little Pony loving neckbeard types on Reddit when they are drunk.

    Gerty Gullible.
    Thank heavens I am not as gullible as you. Even the Ancient Greeks wrote about the toxic effects of heavy metal. Among those children who have never been vaccinated, there is not one case of autism.

    Have you any idea how much those pharmaceutical companies pay to hide these stories. They will flood the media objecting and denying that there is any link, of course they will it is huge money - but scientists not under the same constraints still provide evidence of the link.

    CONFLUENCE

    The events that would bring these three histories together began in 1997, when New Jersey Representative Frank Pallone, representing a district concerned about environmental mercury poisoning, appended a rider to the FDA Modernization Act of that year to assess all of the agency’s products for mercury content.52 In response, the Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research (CBER) at the FDA initiated a formal risk assessment of thimerosal in vaccines beginning in April 1998. By this point, the vaccine schedule had expanded, and three of the vaccines routinely given to infants (diphtheria-tetanus-acellular pertussis, Haemophilus influenzae type b conjugate, and hepatitis B) potentially contained thimerosal. The analysis was completed in the spring of 1999. The actual cumulative exposure varied considerably, given that not all manufacturers used the preservative, but the CBER scientists calculated that a minority of infants could receive as much as 187.5 mg of ethylmercury during the first 6 months of life. Lacking any standard for ethylmercury, the CBER team compared this exposure to standards for methylmercury and discovered that it exceeded that set by the Environmental Protection Agency. Although acknowledging the many uncertainties involved, the FDA responded by inviting vaccine advisory bodies for consultation in June 1999. PMC



    After which they removed Thimasol from the vaccine and cases of Autism dropped. BMJ

    Gayle L. DeLong

    City University of New York, Baruch College - Zicklin School of Business - Department of Economics and Finance

    There are 2 versions of this paper
    Date Written: August 26, 2008
    Abstract

    A link between vaccines and autism is increasingly suspected, because vaccines contain neurotoxins and immune suppressants as well as live viruses that could affect a susceptible population. I investigate the possible link by comparing the proportion of children classified with either autism (AUT) or speech or language impairment (SLI) and the proportion of children who received all recommended vaccines by age two in each U.S. state from 2001 and 2005. I find the higher the proportion of children receiving vaccinations, the higher is the prevalence of children with autism or SLI. I also examine intra-state data for California and Pennsylvania and find a similar association. Finally, I find that states with a greater proportion of completely unvaccinated children also tend to have lower prevalence of autism. The results suggest that autism and speech or language impairments could be side effects of vaccination.

  9. #82
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    Until the 90’s cases of Autism have been historically underreported.

  10. Likes Toodles McGinty liked this post
  11. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    There you go again Regular habit of yours - when you cannot answer, you fall back on personal insults. That which you THINK you know comes straight from the media - missing out the middle man who would tell you differently - and you are completely satisfied thinking you know all all there is to know about various events. Sad person.
    People dismantling your troll arguments is more of a public service than anything. Your description of laughing at the terrorist's video of the Christchurch Mosque mass murders was always going to be dismantled.

    You're poorly equipped to critically evaluate information. Unfortunately, there's no vaccination for you against being easily led.

    It's probably grating for you that you didn't receive any Dislikes for your work. It appears the PNP, on his own, has superseded your group's efforts. The Said account has lost its touch. Perhaps you should add your Dislikes total to the PNP's, think of that combined total as a joint effort and celebrate when you collectively break the 1,000 barrier. In which case, between you, there's currently just 19 Dislikes to go.

  12. Likes Toodles McGinty liked this post
  13. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    Let's put it this way - two younger members of my family had a vaccine. They were very healthy before the vaccination. They were only a few months old and they had to be hospitalised, they nearly died. Mine were not the only ones affected, some were a lot worse off.

    There is far too much evidence against injecting foreign substances into your blood stream than there is for it. Humans have survived for thousands of years relying on their own immune system which is very efficient - why should it be any different now, just because pharmaceutical companies have many large investors and make huge profits should not change how humans have developed.

    Aside from the let's say cut and thrust of the forum it is a shame that you have had to go through the problems you outline.

    Relying on the method you champion, our immune system, clearly your scientific "study" should have some measure of balance.

    Extrapolating your experiences across the many vaccines is at the very least bad science.

    Don't you think you may have some inbuilt bias that skews your thinking?


    The highlighted sentence had me wondering what you might call these people

  14. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    Mercury (Thimersol)is used as a binding agent in vaccines!

    "The controversy regarding the once widely used mercury-containing preservative thimerosal in childhood vaccines has raised many historical questions that have not been adequately explored. Why was this preservative incorporated in the first place? Was there any real evidence that it caused harm? And how did thimerosal become linked in the public mind to the “autism epidemic”?I examine the origins of the thimerosal controversy and their legacy for the debate that has followed. More specifically, I explore the parallel histories of three factors that converged to create the crisis: vaccine preservatives, mercury poisoning, and autism.
    An understanding of this history provides important lessons for physicians and policymakers seeking to preserve the public’s trust in the nation’s vaccine system." NCBI

    "What happens if mercury gets in your bloodstream?




    If inorganic mercury enters your bloodstream, it can attack the
    kidneys and brain
    . Permanent kidney damage and kidney
    failure may occur. A large amount in the bloodstream may cause
    massive blood and fluid loss from diarrhea and kidney
    failure, leading to death."

    "Thimerosal, as a preservative, is no longer contained in any childhoods d vaccine, with the exception of the influenza vaccine."

    That is only one heavy metal used!


    You wonder why people criticise you? Take the above comment. You begin by stating that Thimersol [sic] is a binding agent, followed by an abstract of a study published by NCBI.

    An abstract describing the purpose of a study supports nothing. For that you need a description of the study and conclusions reached. I'm guessing that you went no further than the abstract. Even then you managed to misspell Thimerosal, and state that it's a binding agent, despite the abstract clearly stating that Thimerosal is used as a vaccine preservative.

    As for the flu vaccine, multi-dose vials contain Thimerosal. Single dose vials do not. All children's vaccines are available without Thimerosal. My high dose flu shot didn't contain it either.

    Your so called research is lazy. You don't even bother to read it in full, or check for potential errors in your comments. You don't even bother to check if your C&P info. is current.

    No clickable links, just a cobbled together mish-mash of C&Ps from someone who is hopelessly out of her depth.

  15. Likes Toodles McGinty liked this post
  16. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    Thank heavens I am not as gullible as you. Even the Ancient Greeks wrote about the toxic effects of heavy metal. Among those children who have never been vaccinated, there is not one case of autism.

    Have you any idea how much those pharmaceutical companies pay to hide these stories. They will flood the media objecting and denying that there is any link, of course they will it is huge money - but scientists not under the same constraints still provide evidence of the link.

    CONFLUENCE

    The events that would bring these three histories together began in 1997, when New Jersey Representative Frank Pallone, representing a district concerned about environmental mercury poisoning, appended a rider to the FDA Modernization Act of that year to assess all of the agency’s products for mercury content.52 In response, the Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research (CBER) at the FDA initiated a formal risk assessment of thimerosal in vaccines beginning in April 1998. By this point, the vaccine schedule had expanded, and three of the vaccines routinely given to infants (diphtheria-tetanus-acellular pertussis, Haemophilus influenzae type b conjugate, and hepatitis B) potentially contained thimerosal. The analysis was completed in the spring of 1999. The actual cumulative exposure varied considerably, given that not all manufacturers used the preservative, but the CBER scientists calculated that a minority of infants could receive as much as 187.5 mg of ethylmercury during the first 6 months of life. Lacking any standard for ethylmercury, the CBER team compared this exposure to standards for methylmercury and discovered that it exceeded that set by the Environmental Protection Agency. Although acknowledging the many uncertainties involved, the FDA responded by inviting vaccine advisory bodies for consultation in June 1999. PMC



    After which they removed Thimasol from the vaccine and cases of Autism dropped. BMJ

    Gayle L. DeLong

    City University of New York, Baruch College - Zicklin School of Business - Department of Economics and Finance

    There are 2 versions of this paper
    Date Written: August 26, 2008
    Abstract

    A link between vaccines and autism is increasingly suspected, because vaccines contain neurotoxins and immune suppressants as well as live viruses that could affect a susceptible population. I investigate the possible link by comparing the proportion of children classified with either autism (AUT) or speech or language impairment (SLI) and the proportion of children who received all recommended vaccines by age two in each U.S. state from 2001 and 2005. I find the higher the proportion of children receiving vaccinations, the higher is the prevalence of children with autism or SLI. I also examine intra-state data for California and Pennsylvania and find a similar association. Finally, I find that states with a greater proportion of completely unvaccinated children also tend to have lower prevalence of autism. The results suggest that autism and speech or language impairments could be side effects of vaccination.
    You're quoting a paper from 2008.

    I'll try again:

    In 2010, the General Medical Counsel declared that the paper was not only based on bad science, but was deliberate fraud and falsifications by the head researchers, Dr. Andrew Wakefield and revoked his medical license. Investigators learned that a lawyer looking for a link between the vaccine and autism had paid Wakefield more than £435,000 (equal to more than a half-million dollars).

    As for your absurd claim that 'among those children who have never been vaccinated there is not one case of autism' again this has been thoroughly debunked.

    Numerous studies have been done comparing autism rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated children. No difference has been found.

    One study from Japan looked at the MMR vaccine, which was withdrawn from the country due to concerns about aseptic meningitis. In that study, a statistically significant number of children were found to have developed autism even though they had not received the MMR vaccine

    There is increasing evidence that autism is genetic:

    A new study looking at autism in 5 countries found that 80 percent of autism risk can be traced to inherited genes rather than environmental factors and random mutations.

    There was a documentary on TV this week with Paddy and Christine McGuinness. They have autistic children. It seems that Christine is autistic, but it went undiagnosed until she was 33. Genetic link again.

    Autism has even been detected before a child is born.

    There. Is. No. Link. Between. Vaccines. And. Autism.

    Gerty Gullible. Believing any old shite that conspiracy theorists spew out. Then thinking, erroneously, you've 'inside information'. That you know more than the rest of the world, those poor uninformed schmucks. Just like the anti-vaxxers, soaking up the bull that they are 'PureBloods'. When to reach adulthood alive, they've probably had 10-20 vaccines already.

    Psst, by the way, a subreddit has it on very good information that they are holding kids in the cellar under McDonalds in Kew, with the sole intention of vaccinating them with lizard blood for eventual world domination of the hybrid master race. I'd have thought with your special interests, you might want to pop down there.

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  18. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    Thank heavens I am not as gullible as you. Even the Ancient Greeks wrote about the toxic effects of heavy metal. Among those children who have never been vaccinated, there is not one case of autism.

    Have you any idea how much those pharmaceutical companies pay to hide these stories. They will flood the media objecting and denying that there is any link, of course they will it is huge money - but scientists not under the same constraints still provide evidence of the link.

    CONFLUENCE

    The events that would bring these three histories together began in 1997, when New Jersey Representative Frank Pallone, representing a district concerned about environmental mercury poisoning, appended a rider to the FDA Modernization Act of that year to assess all of the agency’s products for mercury content.52 In response, the Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research (CBER) at the FDA initiated a formal risk assessment of thimerosal in vaccines beginning in April 1998. By this point, the vaccine schedule had expanded, and three of the vaccines routinely given to infants (diphtheria-tetanus-acellular pertussis, Haemophilus influenzae type b conjugate, and hepatitis B) potentially contained thimerosal. The analysis was completed in the spring of 1999. The actual cumulative exposure varied considerably, given that not all manufacturers used the preservative, but the CBER scientists calculated that a minority of infants could receive as much as 187.5 mg of ethylmercury during the first 6 months of life. Lacking any standard for ethylmercury, the CBER team compared this exposure to standards for methylmercury and discovered that it exceeded that set by the Environmental Protection Agency. Although acknowledging the many uncertainties involved, the FDA responded by inviting vaccine advisory bodies for consultation in June 1999. PMC



    After which they removed Thimasol from the vaccine and cases of Autism dropped. BMJ

    Gayle L. DeLong

    City University of New York, Baruch College - Zicklin School of Business - Department of Economics and Finance

    There are 2 versions of this paper
    Date Written: August 26, 2008
    Abstract

    A link between vaccines and autism is increasingly suspected, because vaccines contain neurotoxins and immune suppressants as well as live viruses that could affect a susceptible population. I investigate the possible link by comparing the proportion of children classified with either autism (AUT) or speech or language impairment (SLI) and the proportion of children who received all recommended vaccines by age two in each U.S. state from 2001 and 2005. I find the higher the proportion of children receiving vaccinations, the higher is the prevalence of children with autism or SLI. I also examine intra-state data for California and Pennsylvania and find a similar association. Finally, I find that states with a greater proportion of completely unvaccinated children also tend to have lower prevalence of autism. The results suggest that autism and speech or language impairments could be side effects of vaccination.
    Another beauty! No, the BMJ didn't say that when Thimasol [sic] was removed from the vaccine cases of autism dropped. If they did make this statement, I think that the BMJ would know how to spell it. Do you have a link to support this?

    Nice graph. It would be even nicer if it was accompanied by a clickable link to the site you got it from.

    Your C&P confirms that as standards for ethylmercury were not available, the study was forced to use standards for methylmercury, proves that the study was flawed due to the use of standards for a totally different mercury.

    Forgive my scepticism in regard to a 13 year old study conducted by a professor in CUNY's Dept. of Economics and Finance.

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  20. #88
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    I have my share of online spats with the Prof but and its a very big but if he she or whatever has had to go through;


    Let's put it this way - two younger members of my family had a vaccine. They were very healthy before the vaccination. They were only a few months old and they had to be hospitalised, they nearly died. Mine were not the only ones affected, some were a lot worse off


    The change from "two younger members of my family" to "mine" is an unusual choice of language but who knows.

    I have known someone who was utterly convinced that their child's disability was vaccine-related and let's say it skewed their thinking on just about everything.

    Hearing from the affected child's siblings that as a baby developmental difficulties were obvious put a whole new light on things.

    The Profs half-baked science exhibits many of the obsessive characteristics of someone who has shaped their opinions from guilt often misplaced.

  21. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by seivad View Post
    You wonder why people criticise you? Take the above comment. You begin by stating that Thimersol [sic] is a binding agent, followed by an abstract of a study published by NCBI.

    An abstract describing the purpose of a study supports nothing. For that you need a description of the study and conclusions reached. I'm guessing that you went no further than the abstract. Even then you managed to misspell Thimerosal, and state that it's a binding agent, despite the abstract clearly stating that Thimerosal is used as a vaccine preservative.

    As for the flu vaccine, multi-dose vials contain Thimerosal. Single dose vials do not. All children's vaccines are available without Thimerosal. My high dose flu shot didn't contain it either.

    Your so called research is lazy. You don't even bother to read it in full, or check for potential errors in your comments. You don't even bother to check if your C&P info. is current.

    No clickable links, just a cobbled together mish-mash of C&Ps from someone who is hopelessly out of her depth.
    I will admit that my links may be lazily obtained - but there is no denying my knowledge of which you have no information about. If you look at the chart given you will see that the numbers of cases of autism dropped considerably after Thiomersal/Thimerosal was removed from the vaccines.

    Aluminium is used in other vaccines. Any heavy metals, that you claim to know about, are dangerous in even minute proportions. The reason why lead was banned in paint. They are toxic and an pass into the blood stream via the skin.

    The Abstract given in journals is a brief summary of the findings - as you would know if you have ever had to produce a journal. I could give you the full journal that is written for scientific understanding, if you are interested and are able to understand it.

    The Thiomersal can be both a binding agent and a preservative. As it is injected into the blood stream, it is attacked by the immune system. The heavy metal is absorbed into the blood stream and is attacked by the immune system that acts to destroy all microorganisms associated with it. As a preservative, heavy metals prevent the degradation of the dead disease cells while the substrate is being stored.

    Just got the end bit 'her' - Ha!Ha! Not today - I have a lot of work on, maybe tomorrow.

    By the way - if you are really interested in the science of biology, I can send you a selection of academic books on the subject - er, second thoughts, since you are in Canada I can provide you with a list of graded books depending on your present knowledge of the topic.


  22. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    I have my share of online spats with the Prof but and its a very big but if he she or whatever has had to go through;


    Let's put it this way - two younger members of my family had a vaccine. They were very healthy before the vaccination. They were only a few months old and they had to be hospitalised, they nearly died. Mine were not the only ones affected, some were a lot worse off


    The change from "two younger members of my family" to "mine" is an unusual choice of language but who knows.

    I have known someone who was utterly convinced that their child's disability was vaccine-related and let's say it skewed their thinking on just about everything.

    Hearing from the affected child's siblings that as a baby developmental difficulties were obvious put a whole new light on things.

    The Profs half-baked science exhibits many of the obsessive characteristics of someone who has shaped their opinions from guilt often misplaced.
    You're very perceptive, Local. As you'll see from the image below, taken from DR's post on this thread: https://southport.qlocal.co.uk/south...5046890-13.htm

    Marvin, AKA Joni, AKA Said did have 2 very sick children (I believe they are twins) who were hospitalized. Although I normally view her comments with scepticism, for some reason I tend to believe her on this one. I also sympathise with her, and I can understand why a mother would desperately try to find something to put the blame on. We can lose all rationality when it comes to our children. It's our job to protect them, but as we all know, there are so many things that are beyond our control.


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