Donald Trump And GB News

[bensherman]

That's the modern day equivalent of arguing that it was the jews fault that the Holocaust happened because they provoked Hitler.

1. Some of the rioters WERE carrying guns.
2. Guns and grenades were found in vehicles they had travelled in.
3. On at least two occasions in the previous year Trump had gone out of his way to praise mobs carrying guns who attempted to overthrow their state government, eg Michigan.

Consider who Trump had egged on to come to Washington. The Proud Boys, the Three Percenters, and the rest. All known to be heavily armed and to have conducted training exercises using arms in the preceding weeks. He didn't NEED to specifically say to bring weapons because that is their natural state. One of the reasons they were doing it was because they had been told Biden was going to take their guns from them.

In case you are going to try to tell us that these events come from government fabrication, remember that Trump and Barr were still in post then and for the next 14 days.

[local]

That's the modern day equivalent of arguing that it was the jews fault that the Holocaust happened because they provoked Hitler.

1. Some of the rioters WERE carrying guns.
2. Guns and grenades were found in vehicles they had travelled in.
3. On at least two occasions in the previous year Trump had gone out of his way to praise mobs carrying guns who attempted to overthrow their state government, eg Michigan.

Consider who Trump had egged on to come to Washington. The Proud Boys, the Three Percenters, and the rest. All known to be heavily armed and to have conducted training exercises using arms in the preceding weeks. He didn't NEED to specifically say to bring weapons because that is their natural state. One of the reasons they were doing it was because they had been told Biden was going to take their guns from them.

In case you are going to try to tell us that these events come from government fabrication, remember that Trump and Barr were still in post then and for the next 14 days.

So to spice up your failing argument you have thrown in a Godwin a Proud Boys,Three percenters,training camps anything else you have missed out?

Finding guns in America is not a revelation you can buy them "In Asda" and the "Floral Hall".

Why not just stop digging and accept this was not by any stretch of the imagination and particularly by American standards an armed insurrection.

Thankfully the massed ranks of the American armed nutcases did not turn up.

Crackpots in bearskins and waffling nonsense, plenty of those,
trouble makers,hooligans, rent a rioter members, no doubt.

Let's be honest most of us would want to go to sleep after Trump waffling for that long.

How many of the hundreds of thousands could even hear him?

A minority behaved badly, definitely, but that happens here at demonstrations.

Trump had/still is making a deal of electoral fraud and the unusual patterns generated by postal voting, he terms it as having been robbed and many many millions agree with him.

If they are right then show us the proof.
We haven't got anything other than anecdotal "evidence" and statistical anomalies so far and because these aren't aired fairly the punters have got restless.

The best way out of this is to put up or shut up at a public hearing the courts have failed demonstrably.

[bensherman]

"Haven't been aired fairly"
Dear me
There have been numerous investigations.
The DOJ told Barr there was no evidence of fraud.
In Arizona, the ludicrous 6 week examination of Maricopa votes , to their great embarrassment, actually ended up saying Biden's votes were underestimated.
Millions upon millions have been put into one crackpot scheme after another to prove fraud. 13 months later, nothing.
The only people actually charged with fraud were Trump voters.

Biden, a weak candidate, still beat Trump soundly. That's what hurts.

But if you are interested in fraud go look at the 2019 UK postal vote story.
A company created out of nowhere by a Tory donor is appointed to process postal votes. A month after the election, and less than a year old, it is wound up.

For some reason you didn't mention that.

By the way it's not difficult to find footage of these nutcases at training camps. Nor is it difficult to find coverage of the armed attempt to overthrow the Michigan state legislature, which looking back was a rehearsal of the Capitol. But months before the presidential election.

[local]

"Haven't been aired fairly"
Dear me
There have been numerous investigations.
The DOJ told Barr there was no evidence of fraud.
In Arizona, the ludicrous 6 week examination of Maricopa votes , to their great embarrassment, actually ended up saying Biden's votes were underestimated.
Millions upon millions have been put into one crackpot scheme after another to prove fraud. 13 months later, nothing.
The only people actually charged with fraud were Trump voters.

Biden, a weak candidate, still beat Trump soundly. That's what hurts.

But if you are interested in fraud go look at the 2019 UK postal vote story.
A company created out of nowhere by a Tory donor is appointed to process postal votes. A month after the election, and less than a year old, it is wound up.

For some reason you didn't mention that.

By the way it's not difficult to find footage of these nutcases at training camps. Nor is it difficult to find coverage of the armed attempt to overthrow the Michigan state legislature, which looking back was a rehearsal of the Capitol. But months before the presidential election.

Thank goodness you have (nearly) moved on from the insurrection nonsense.

Of course, there are armed nutters in training camps but thankfully they stayed away with their truckloads of arms.


The vote fraud allegations have not been aired properly so the conspiracy crackpots make up tosh.

Trump beat himself, the ailing Biden was hardly seen, which has subsequently proved to be a sensible move as his catastrophic pairing with Harris has unraveled.

Why get in the ring with Trump when he is beating himself up?

Biden was well advised.


America had great concerns over the election process before the election it is not something "Trumped Up"


Elections in America: Concerns Over Security, Divisions Over Expanding Access to Voting

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...ess-to-voting/


It has not been dealt with or aired properly.

[bensherman]

What do you mean "not aired properly"???

They have had 13 months to produce evidence. All they have produced is speculation. To the extent that the two leading lawyers have been disciplined for wasting the court's time. Giuliani has been suspended by the NY Bar association for his behaviour.

They tried 63 times and were emphatically rejected.

Even Fox News has given it up.

Just what do you think "needs to be aired" and where?

BTW loudmouth Trump has now admitted, in a patsy interview with Hannity, that he did obstruct justice when investigation of the Russian links with his campaign were ongoing, and that if he hadn't have fired Comey the FBI would have told the DOJ to charge him. Incredible.

All this time the lie about Mueller's investigation has survived. He did NOT , as Barr lied about, clear Trump..he had been told, wrongly, that Trump as president could not be arraigned, so did not pursue it but along the way came across TEN examples of obstruction of justice.

[local]

What do you mean "not aired properly"???

They have had 13 months to produce evidence. All they have produced is speculation. To the extent that the two leading lawyers have been disciplined for wasting the court's time. Giuliani has been suspended by the NY Bar association for his behaviour.

They tried 63 times and were emphatically rejected.

Even Fox News has given it up.

Just what do you think "needs to be aired" and where?

BTW loudmouth Trump has now admitted, in a patsy interview with Hannity, that he did obstruct justice when investigation of the Russian links with his campaign were ongoing, and that if he hadn't have fired Comey the FBI would have told the DOJ to charge him. Incredible.

All this time the lie about Mueller's investigation has survived. He did NOT , as Barr lied about, clear Trump..he had been told, wrongly, that Trump as president could not be arraigned, so did not pursue it but along the way came across TEN examples of obstruction of justice.

A third party public enquiry, there are as I posted earlier far too many people unhappy with the voting system to simply put it down to a dew crazed crackpots.

[Desert Region]

GB News has an audience smaller than the welsh language channel.

Advertisers who object to the output have walked, and their remaining ones won't hang around for such a poor audience.

There is nothing new in Trump and Farage bemoaning reality. Trump has already expounded at length about the election, curiously unable to provide proof of anything he claims. Farage has had his own GB slot anyway.

So there really isn't any value in putting the two together.

Actually, the reality of the value of featuring Trump on a news channel is well established. As described in the linked articles in post #8 of this thread, Fox News, CNN, MSNBC etc have been plastering Trump on their networks for years and CNN and MSNBC are very worried about viewing figures, advertising revenue and profitability in a present and future without President Trump.

In post #9, there's a video clip (Jon Stewart: Trump isn't some incredible supervillain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fav5_H1qaFA) of Jon Stewart trying to diplomatically and patiently explain to the resistant CNN anchor that their Trump fixation as an 'incredible supervillian' is an indulgence. That clip is as recent as from less than two months ago.

It's been reported that the Farage-Trump interview achieved GB News' highest viewership since its launch night. Yet again: there's the value.

But it remains a mystery why those on the left who have for years ceaselessly posited as fact that this country is full of thick right-wing racists are not confused by the failure of GB News, which has, as you point out, "an audience smaller than the welsh language channel."

What's the explanation for that contradiction? Why aren't GB News's viewing figures in the millions, indeed in the very many millions?

There seemed to be a significant proportion of people on the left who revelled in Trump being President. And not just left-leaning news networks...

#TBT - 41 Times Alec Baldwin Absolutely Nailed Trump

[Toodles McGinty]

But it remains a mystery why those on the left who have for years ceaselessly posited as fact that this country is full of thick right-wing racists are not confused by the failure of GB News, which has, as you point out, "an audience smaller than the welsh language channel."

What's the explanation for that contradiction? Why aren't GB News's viewing figures in the millions, indeed in the very many millions?

Couple of points I'd say. First, just because they are thick right wing racists, and figures indicate that hate crime is on the rise across the board, doesn't mean they are politically engaged. In fact, I'd say the brain cells lacking to the point of hating anyone because of their skin colour, religion or sexual orientation means they're not engaged in much at all. How many brain cells does it take to consider all benefit claimants are scroungers with giant TVs and smart phones? Not many. It's a knee-jerk reaction, a Mail or Express front page, rather than an evolving thought process.

Secondly, have you seen GBeebies? The production values are dreadful. It really is dire. I suppose even Britain First has standards when it comes to watching a poorly lit Farage droning on and nodding like a toy dog on a parcel shelf.

There seemed to be a significant proportion of people on the left who revelled in Trump being President. And not just left-leaning news networks...

#TBT - 41 Times Alec Baldwin Absolutely Nailed Trump

He was absolute comedy gold.

And if he is useful to the powers that be, he will be again. From SNL, through late night chat shows, to our own 'Room Next Door'. Bill Maher isn't half as funny without his nemesis.

From a political point of view, obviously he was dire, a risk to democracy, a risk to world peace. Even those world leaders who think he and our own 'Britain Trump' are clowns know they still have their fingers on nuclear buttons. Well, I doubt they are allowed anywhere near them in actual fact, but still dangerous.

Side note - I always imagined Alec Baldwin was a republican. He must have played 'Jack Donaghy' that well, I believed it.

[Desert Region]

Couple of points I'd say. First, just because they are thick right wing racists, and figures indicate that hate crime is on the rise across the board, doesn't mean they are politically engaged. In fact, I'd say the brain cells lacking to the point of hating anyone because of their skin colour, religion or sexual orientation means they're not engaged in much at all. How many brain cells does it take to consider all benefit claimants are scroungers with giant TVs and smart phones? Not many. It's a knee-jerk reaction, a Mail or Express front page, rather than an evolving thought process.

Secondly, have you seen GBeebies? The production values are dreadful. It really is dire. I suppose even Britain First has standards when it comes to watching a poorly lit Farage droning on and nodding like a toy dog on a parcel shelf.

The lack of GB News production values did cross my mind as a possible reason that would help explain the risible viewing figures. I occasionally tuned in and was less than impressed by the set design and the outside broadcast sound issues. 6 months on from its broadcast launch night, I'm presuming that the majority of those initial deficiencies have been learnt from and overcome. I'll need to have a look at the state of the channel's current programmes to confirm that!

Then again, the Sun newspaper being a nasty right-wing, low-brow comic didn't seem to harm its success and if people are as rabidly racist, nationalistic and right-wing as they're supposed to be, then would they not be inclined to switch on to watch a channel that purportedly chimes with their views? How intelligent does anyone have to be to watch television?!

Plus, obviously and as we know, the EU Referendum, Brexit and the endless fallout and acrimony and ongoing consequences arguably made and continues to make political conversations much more mainstream and commonplace in virtually everyone's everyday lives. Over 33 and a half million people voted, including, supposedly, over 17 million racists.

GB News was obviously set up with a an envious eye on the success and profitability of Fox News in the US. It's widely presumed that the vast majority of the viewership of Fox News are rabid, nationalistic, right-wing racists. If US right-wing racists can and do switch on to Fox News in large numbers, then it's difficult to see why their GB counterparts wouldn't be likewise inclined.

Plus, Johnson is very often likened to and compared with Trump and this Conservative Government got in with a thumping majority and has many vehement detractors and critics just like Trump's administration did.

He was absolute comedy gold.

And if he is useful to the powers that be, he will be again. From SNL, through late night chat shows, to our own 'Room Next Door'. Bill Maher isn't half as funny without his nemesis.

From a political point of view, obviously he was dire, a risk to democracy, a risk to world peace. Even those world leaders who think he and our own 'Britain Trump' are clowns know they still have their fingers on nuclear buttons. Well, I doubt they are allowed anywhere near them in actual fact, but still dangerous.

Side note - I always imagined Alec Baldwin was a republican. He must have played 'Jack Donaghy' that well, I believed it.

I agree that Trump was dire, a risk to democracy, and a risk to world peace. If he's ever convicted of rape, I'd have to say that I wouldn't be that surprised. I thought Hilary Clinton was a horrible option and an unpleasant person, while Trump was much worse.

Alec Baldwin along with (ex) New York Governor Cuomo and (ex) CNN anchor and analyst Chris Cuomo are figures who profited from positioning themselves as fierce opponents of Trump and who are all currently mired in scandals of their own. Wolves in anti-Trump clothing.

Alec Baldwin has always been a vile piece of work...



However, he sends up Trump very effectively so he must be a good guy.

[silver fox]

Thank goodness you have (nearly) moved on from the insurrection nonsense.

Of course, there are armed nutters in training camps but thankfully they stayed away with their truckloads of arms.


The vote fraud allegations have not been aired properly so the conspiracy crackpots make up tosh.

Trump beat himself, the ailing Biden was hardly seen, which has subsequently proved to be a sensible move as his catastrophic pairing with Harris has unraveled.

Why get in the ring with Trump when he is beating himself up?

Biden was well advised.


America had great concerns over the election process before the election it is not something "Trumped Up"


Elections in America: Concerns Over Security, Divisions Over Expanding Access to Voting

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...ess-to-voting/


It has not been dealt with or aired properly.

You claim concern over voting security etc; hardly surprising when Trump and his acolytes have been beating that drum from the run up to the 2016 election, it's now 2021 and the only attempts at fraud and vote rigging have come from Trumpists, nothing to show for all the lies spewed by Trump.

When it comes to the storming of the Capitol Building, all those caught and charged believed they were doing what Trump wanted them to do, also believed that if things went wrong, Trump would shower them with pardons like confetti or at least support them with resulting legal actions.

They now find that they were totally expendable, useful idiots in other words.

The Jan 6th investigation committee have interviewed or taken depositions from over 250 people from in and around the staff, they are now moving on to the co-conspirators and suddenly 5th amendment and sudden "medical conditions" come to the fore, Tucker Carlson on Fox is babbling that this is all a political witch hunt.

What are these assorted scumbags afraid of? is it fear of incriminating themselves or possibly incriminating Trump?

The US system is working slowly, but it appears to be working, can't wait until Trump is hauled in for questioning, that should keep us entertained for days, for those who think Trump will never be questioned, evidence is appearing that Jeffrey Clark's efforts to overturn the election have come from the White House, this gets more intriguing and thoroughly illegal day by day.

[Toodles McGinty]

Then again, the Sun newspaper being a nasty right-wing, low-brow comic didn't seem to harm its success and if people are as rabidly racist, nationalistic and right-wing as they're supposed to be, then would they not be inclined to switch on to watch a channel that purportedly chimes with their views? How intelligent does anyone have to be to watch television?!

I agree entirely with that description of the Sun. How they sell a single copy in the NW is beyond me. It is losing readers and money due to libel costs etc, thankfully.

I think it was you who said that not everyone is politically engaged. Do you suppose that everyone who reads the Sun or the Mirror is politically engaged? Or they only buy a paper for politics? A friend buys The Star for the puzzles. Not too taxing. Today's online Sun has little about politics.

Thing is, the entire country isn't rabidly nationalistic or racist. But that was the intended demograpic of GBNews, as you say, an attempt on a UK version of Fox News. But Fox News is success in a country that would view the Lib-Dems as raving Communists.

Plus, obviously and as we know, the EU Referendum, Brexit and the endless fallout and acrimony and ongoing consequences arguably made and continues to make political conversations much more mainstream and commonplace in virtually everyone's everyday lives. Over 33 and a half million people voted, including, supposedly, over 17 million racists.

.
Do you know a single political TV show that gets anywhere close to 17 million viewers? I doubt the 'Strictly' final reaches that many. Political shows or channels traditionally have low viewing figures. And even the most rabid, racist right winger would get bored with the 'war on woke' narrative playing on a loop.

Not sure where you get '17 million racists' from. You can usually tell who voted for Brexit, they get very sensitive about the 'racist' aspect. I've no doubt racism played a part for some, but more influence came from a stunningly successful campaign. While it's of no consequence now, people are finally waking up to the fact that they were played. They were lied to. Shame we can't re-run it again armed with the truth. But it's done. Another government might try to repair some of the damage.

Plus, Johnson is very often likened to and compared with Trump and this Conservative Government got in with a thumping majority and has many vehement detractors and critics just like Trump's administration did.

Aided by a fundamentally unfair voting system on both sides of the Atlantic.

Alec Baldwin has always been a vile piece of work...

However, he sends up Trump very effectively so he must be a good guy.

An odd view, if you don't mind me saying so. I'm quite surprised at reading that from you. He's a good guy because he acts well? Kevin Spacey is an outstanding actor, but he doesn't strike me as a good guy.

[Desert Region]

I agree entirely with that description of the Sun. How they sell a single copy in the NW is beyond me. It is losing readers and money due to libel costs etc, thankfully.

There does seem to be a rare and unspoken consensus on the forum that no-one quotes or links to a story from the Sun. I wouldn't personally rule out quoting from the Sun, but I don't seem to (perhaps I have a couple of times), nor does anyone else here, as best as I can recall.

I think it was you who said that not everyone is politically engaged. Do you suppose that everyone who reads the Sun or the Mirror is politically engaged? Or they only buy a paper for politics? A friend buys The Star for the puzzles. Not too taxing. Today's online Sun has little about politics.

Thing is, the entire country isn't rabidly nationalistic or racist. But that was the intended demograpic of GBNews, as you say, an attempt on a UK version of Fox News. But Fox News is success in a country that would view the Lib-Dems as raving Communists.

I lost count of the number of Remainers who would say that it was racists who voted for Brexs**t and that the people they encountered who'd voted for Brexs**t where uniformly thick and racist.

The US seems to be commonly perceived as polarized politically and the UK became increasingly so in part from the EU Referendum. Again, otherwise intelligent people would call Leavers for racists and Remainers for traitors. There wasn't and hasn't been much in the way of nuance. Those entrenched attitudes converted into figures: 17 million racists and 16 million traitors.

Do you know a single political TV show that gets anywhere close to 17 million viewers? I doubt the 'Strictly' final reaches that many. Political shows or channels traditionally have low viewing figures. And even the most rabid, racist right winger would get bored with the 'war on woke' narrative playing on a loop.

Not sure where you get '17 million racists' from. You can usually tell who voted for Brexit, they get very sensitive about the 'racist' aspect. I've no doubt racism played a part for some, but more influence came from a stunningly successful campaign. While it's of no consequence now, people are finally waking up to the fact that they were played. They were lied to. Shame we can't re-run it again armed with the truth. But it's done. Another government might try to repair some of the damage.

Fair point about a channel's ratings nowadays. It's mainly special events that can potentially attract a viewership in the tens of millions.

Although its early days for GB News, nevertheless, why are its ratings so pitiful? The progressives and SJWs I know don't seem to be any less enthusiastic about being outraged at Boris Johnson, the Conservatives, Trump, or a thousand and one other things, so I don't imagine or see why rabid racists are particularly less enthused by culture wars narratives.

If GB News had massive ratings then I feel confident that progressives would say: See? Told you so.

Maybe one day it or another like channel will have fantastic viewing figures. At which point it could be instructive or demonstrative to analyse how racist or bigoted that channel is.

Aided by a fundamentally unfair voting system on both sides of the Atlantic.

There's no real enthusiasm from the Conservatives or Labour for FPTP. But a Conservative Government that got voted in with a large majority and that is meant to be pursuing a 'war on woke' also doesn't seem to have translated into a substantial GB News viewership.

An odd view, if you don't mind me saying so. I'm quite surprised at reading that from you. He's a good guy because he acts well? Kevin Spacey is an outstanding actor, but he doesn't strike me as a good guy.

I'm interested to see if anti-gun and anti-NRA campaigner Baldwin is charged with involuntary manslaughter or the like. He's so famously symbolic of being 'anti-Trump' that I feel that will maybe work in his favour as being seen as a 'good guy', although state law may be more of a deciding factor. I watched his ABC interview (shot and broadcast during an ongoing criminal investigation!) the other day but having subsequently caught any progressives calling out his white tears.

[Toodles McGinty]

There's no real enthusiasm from the Conservatives or Labour for FPTP. But a Conservative Government that got voted in with a large majority and that is meant to be pursuing a 'war on woke' also doesn't seem to have translated into a substantial GB News viewership.

There wouldn't be. Because the FPTP system could deliver a huge majority that doesn't add up when it comes to actual votes. For either party.

I read of one MP saying 'imagine how many UKIP or Brexit party MPs there'd be with another system'. Yes, and more Greens, more independents. If that's what people have voted for, that's exactly what they should have. Perhaps if the voting system was different, and translated into actual votes, both Tory and Labour would have a lot less MPs. I might not like more UKIPpers or Reform MPs, but if that is what folk want, that is exactly what they should have. A representative Parliament.

I'm interested to see if anti-gun and anti-NRA campaigner Baldwin is charged with involuntary manslaughter or the like. He's so famously symbolic of being 'anti-Trump' that I feel that will maybe work in his favour as being seen as a 'good guy', although state law may be more of a deciding factor. I watched his ABC interview (shot and broadcast during an ongoing criminal investigation!) the other day but having subsequently caught any progressives calling out his white tears.

Can't say I'm fussed over him. He was excellent in '30 Rock' and I enjoyed his stint as Trump on SNL. The situation on the film set is interesting. I assumed that actors are just another bit of the scene. They turn up, they are dressed, made up, given props, deliver the lines, then done. I wouldn't have thought they had anything to do with arms, other than they are told to shoot on cue.

So unless Baldwin loaded the gun, which seems unlikely - why would an actor be responsible for that when there is an armourer on set - I'm not sure how he could be charged. Seems there was a lot of unrest on the set. But still, shouldn't the armourer be aware of every gun at every second? Sounds like there were live rounds there too. Again, why on earth would there be live rounds on a film set?

All very odd. It'll come out in the wash, no doubt.

[local]

GB News was woeful initially but does give a voice to the left and right and from across the spectrum of pressure groups.

I did watch the Trump party political broadcast and thought Farage was just too matey with Trump.

Farage is very slick but needs some stronger guests to challenge him.


A few more MP's from the right and left need to put him on the spot.



Its another channel out of many all available with on/off facilities.

[Desert Region]

Can't say I'm fussed over him. He was excellent in '30 Rock' and I enjoyed his stint as Trump on SNL. The situation on the film set is interesting. I assumed that actors are just another bit of the scene. They turn up, they are dressed, made up, given props, deliver the lines, then done. I wouldn't have thought they had anything to do with arms, other than they are told to shoot on cue.

So unless Baldwin loaded the gun, which seems unlikely - why would an actor be responsible for that when there is an armourer on set - I'm not sure how he could be charged. Seems there was a lot of unrest on the set. But still, shouldn't the armourer be aware of every gun at every second? Sounds like there were live rounds there too. Again, why on earth would there be live rounds on a film set?

All very odd. It'll come out in the wash, no doubt.

The Rittenhouse trial was fascinating, the ongoing Elizabeth Holmes trial is intriguing, and the Baldwin interview has snagged my interest. I'm intrigued to see if the Santa Fe District Attorney brings charges against Baldwin.

George Clooney, Dean Cain, and John Schneider -among other actors- have all came down very hard on Baldwin's claims about film set gun safety protocols and requirements and his claim about the gun malfunctioning / misfiring.

One of my initial reactions was to find it odd that an anti-gun campaigner was co-producing and starring in a western! His interview on ABC, conducted by the former White House press secretary for Bill Clinton, was teeming with contradictions, inconsistencies and obvious nonsense. For example: "She goes down. I thought to myself, 'Did she faint?' The notion that there was a live round in that gun did not dawn on me till probably 45 minutes to an hour later."

I appreciate that as the killer and as the film's co-producer (with all the liabilities that entails) he was going to a substantial degree be necessarily cagey with his answers, but even so...

Despite there being an ongoing criminal investigation, he couldn't help but announce: “I have been told by people who are in the know that it’s highly unlikely that I would be charged with anything criminally."