Single market

[sandGroundZero]

Unrepentant LEAVE supporters frame every instance of conflicting priorities between European institutions and national governments as evidence that the EU is inimical to the United Kingdom's economic and social well being. By this standard, there is no case whatsoever for REMAIN.

There is no recognition of the negative impacts for individuals and businesses; no trade-offs.
Absolute sovereignty trumps all other considerations!

[The PNP]

....about the euro and Greece. I said they made a mistake including Greece and then indulged their fiscal irresponsibility for too long. Monetary union was an optional feature of the EU and for most of its members has been a blessing.

Makes me wonder what would have become of Greece, had they not been members of the EU. With no EU bailout money to keep them going - very likely up **** creek without a paddle!

[local]

Dear me

Did you read what you linked to?

That is about the euro and Greece. I said they made a mistake including Greece and then indulged their fiscal irresponsibility for too long. Monetary union was an optional feature of the EU and for most of its members has been a blessing.

Inevitably monetary union requires greater alignment of fiscal policies . When countries don't adhere to that other members suffer.

Your making a very very good job of appearing particularly stupid without much effort, well done it appears you are good at something after all.


The Euro controlled by the ECB is directly governed by European Union law.

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/ecb/orga/d.../index.en.html

You do remember you wrote;

Most importantly the EU has never put member countries' economies in straightjackets.

Don't you ??


Go back to Greece, who did they get bailouts with conditions from?

[sandGroundZero]

local
"Your making a very very good job of appearing particularly stupid without much effort, well done it appears you are good at something after all.
"The Euro controlled by the ECB is directly governed by European Union law.
"You do remember you wrote;
"Most importantly the EU has never put member countries' economies in straightjackets.
"Don't you ??
"Go back to Greece, who did they get bailouts with conditions from?"

[local]

local
"Your making a very very good job of appearing particularly stupid without much effort, well done it appears you are good at something after all.
"The Euro controlled by the ECB is directly governed by European Union law.
"You do remember you wrote;
"Most importantly the EU has never put member countries' economies in straightjackets.
"Don't you ??
"Go back to Greece, who did they get bailouts with conditions from?"

Well to your credit at least you have given up trying to defend irrational Benshermans nonsense.

[sandGroundZero]

Well to your credit at least you have given up trying to defend irrational Benshermans nonsense.

…yeah, right!

[said]

Makes me wonder what would have become of Greece, had they not been members of the EU. With no EU bailout money to keep them going - very likely up **** creek without a paddle!

Greece was encouraged to join the EU with Thatcher acting as middleman and some bank - forgotten which one now, cooked the books to make Greece look far more economically healthy than it actually was.

Consequently, Greece found it difficult to keep up. When the financial crash occurred in 2008/2009, countries like Greece who had adopted the Euro were not allowed to borrow on the strength of it. Unlike the UK, that had the Bank of England and had not taken on the Euro - could actually print money.

At the time of the crash, the German Banks became over indebted and Greece was unable to clear its debts. Greece wanted to declare bankruptcy but the EU would not allow it to do so because if it did then Spain, Italy, Portugal and Ireland would have followed suit. This would have meant a huge bail out programmed for Germany and France, so it was decided that the truth about Greece was to stay quiet, and bribe Greece with a massive loan.

Greece was faced with a huge depression - wages, pensions etc.,were cut to half and the healthcare, education etc., costs cut by 2/3rds. with ridiculously high taxes being paid, while the EU and the IMF publicly declaring that they had made arrangements to help Greece out financially.

The Golden Dawn members (right wing) who would go around helping out the poor and protesting against the austerity, would be arrested because the EU leans heavily toward liberalism, they are more for the rich and wealthy groups, not the people.

After having bailed out the French and German banks at the expense of Europe's poorest people and of having forced Greece into a debtor's prison, Greece's creditors hailed the situation as having 'stability' when all they had done is push the population off a cliff.

Germany has taken over one of the most profitable exports from Greece. The Olives - Germany now bottles these as one of their products.

[donkey22]

Greece was encouraged to join the EU with Thatcher acting as middleman and some bank - forgotten which one now, cooked the books to make Greece look far more economically healthy than it actually was.

Consequently, Greece found it difficult to keep up. When the financial crash occurred in 2008/2009, countries like Greece who had adopted the Euro were not allowed to borrow on the strength of it. Unlike the UK, that had the Bank of England and had not taken on the Euro - could actually print money.

At the time of the crash, the German Banks became over indebted and Greece was unable to clear its debts. Greece wanted to declare bankruptcy but the EU would not allow it to do so because if it did then Spain, Italy, Portugal and Ireland would have followed suit. This would have meant a huge bail out programmed for Germany and France, so it was decided that the truth about Greece was to stay quiet, and bribe Greece with a massive loan.

Greece was faced with a huge depression - wages, pensions etc.,were cut to half and the healthcare, education etc., costs cut by 2/3rds. with ridiculously high taxes being paid, while the EU and the IMF publicly declaring that they had made arrangements to help Greece out financially.

The Golden Dawn members (right wing) who would go around helping out the poor and protesting against the austerity, would be arrested because the EU leans heavily toward liberalism, they are more for the rich and wealthy groups, not the people.

After having bailed out the French and German banks at the expense of Europe's poorest people and of having forced Greece into a debtor's prison, Greece's creditors hailed the situation as having 'stability' when all they had done is push the population off a cliff.

Germany has taken over one of the most profitable exports from Greece. The Olives - Germany now bottles these as one of their products.

Describing Golden Dawn as a right wing party is a bit of an understatement. They are an ultranationalist banned group of neo nazi’s linked to antisemitism, hooliganism, hate crime against immigrants, gays and political opponents and even use the nazi salute.

[said]

Describing Golden Dawn as a right wing party is a bit of an understatement. They are an ultranationalist banned group of neo nazi’s linked to antisemitism, hooliganism, hate crime against immigrants, gays and political opponents and even use the nazi salute.

Ah,, that is the liberal view of them - they were gaining great popularity, and they could not do that if they were such criminals.

[bensherman]

Ah,, that is the liberal view of them - they were gaining great popularity, and they could not do that if they were such criminals.

What????

And your analysis of Greece overlooks the simple fact that Greece ran a deeply inefficient economy for decades, tolerated widespread corruption and tax evasion, and developed a hopelessly unrealistic welfare system.

Allowing it into the euro really just brought about its inevitable collapse sooner.

And Golden Dawn , like (err, let me see) sold the easily digested line that its problems were all the fault of everyone else. When in fact the EU, and especially Germany, had been far too tolerant and patient.

BTW it was Goldman Sachs who fabricated their story.

[silver fox]

Ah,, that is the liberal view of them - they were gaining great popularity, and they could not do that if they were such criminals.

If you care to actually keep up to date, you should have noticed just how short lived their "popularity" was, in favour of, among other delusions was a return to an ultra right wing military dictatorship, just what is not needed anywhere apart from in the psychotic dreams of wannabe power mad dictators.

The election gains made, were very quickly lost and currently have no part in the government.

[local]

What????

And your analysis of Greece overlooks the simple fact that Greece ran a deeply inefficient economy for decades, tolerated widespread corruption and tax evasion, and developed a hopelessly unrealistic welfare system.

Allowing it into the euro really just brought about its inevitable collapse sooner.

And Golden Dawn , like (err, let me see) sold the easily digested line that its problems were all the fault of everyone else. When in fact the EU, and especially Germany, had been far too tolerant and patient.

BTW it was Goldman Sachs who fabricated their story.

Have you cottoned on to how this affects your previous statements on here?

Not least who read and accepted Goldman Sachs fairy story.

The EU far from being tolerant and patient allowed a member country to load Greece up with debts they couldn't afford.

Even you might be able to see how wrong you keep getting things if you read this;


https://www.cfr.org/timeline/greeces...risis-timeline


Well maybe

[bensherman]

Your making a very very good job of appearing particularly stupid without much effort, well done it appears you are good at something after all.


The Euro controlled by the ECB is directly governed by European Union law.

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/ecb/orga/d.../index.en.html

You do remember you wrote;

Most importantly the EU has never put member countries' economies in straightjackets.

Don't you ??


Go back to Greece, who did they get bailouts with conditions from?

Fish in a barrel.
The EU is NOT controlled by the ECB, any more than our government is controlled by the BOE. It must have a central bank because of monetary union.
As for Greece, dear me. If you had an overdraft, and kept exceeding it, eventually your bank will act. In extreme cases it might take action which would force you to , for example, sell your home.
It was the absence of, rather than an excess of, control by the EU that contributed to having to act on Greece.
The idea that Greece was somehow innocent but got pushed around is mind-boggling. Its economy was patently unsustainable. And GD and the rest had a free ride for a few years lying to the Greek people that they did not have to deal with it.
Much like the Tories have tried to pain Europe as the cause of our problems..

[local]

Fish in a barrel.
The EU is NOT controlled by the ECB, any more than our government is controlled by the BOE. It must have a central bank because of monetary union.
As for Greece, dear me. If you had an overdraft, and kept exceeding it, eventually your bank will act. In extreme cases it might take action which would force you to , for example, sell your home.
It was the absence of, rather than an excess of, control by the EU that contributed to having to act on Greece.
The idea that Greece was somehow innocent but got pushed around is mind-boggling. Its economy was patently unsustainable. And GD and the rest had a free ride for a few years lying to the Greek people that they did not have to deal with it.
Much like the Tories have tried to pain Europe as the cause of our problems..

Why don't you just accept you need to work on some gaps in your understanding it would be much easier than these frankly cringeworthy posts




There like Saids science posts.

[sandGroundZero]

local

"Why don't you just accept you need to work on some gaps in your understanding?

"…it would be much easier than these frankly cringeworthy posts. …"