Carte Blanche to vandals

[gsgsgs]

Aparantly the statue inow worth 50 times its original value, £300,000!

http://news.sky.com/story/edward-col...value-12510440

[local]

One wonders what's next for this new form of legal protest .

[Little Londoner]

"the Justice system" is no joke!
Trail by a jury of your peers is at the heart of English legal rights hard won over many centuries. English history is replete with occasions when juries have acquitted defendants apparently in spite of the letter of the law. Had it not been so, absolutism would have prevailed.

Acts of rebellion in the face of unjust laws made English law. But English liberty is never safe against malign instincts of governments. Our current government is enacting further limitations on the right to protest, inter alia.

Thank you lucky stars some people have had the gonads to stand-up to injustice!

There are a lot of things I don't like so if i take it upon myself to destroy them it'll be ok then. Thanks for your input I do have a bit of an idea about the Jury system as I served on a couple of cases in 1975 and the antics of some of the Jurors were childlike.

[sandGroundZero]

There are a lot of things I don't like so if i take it upon myself to destroy them it'll be ok then.

— your conclusion is unwarranted

…notwithstanding the Edward Colston statue was damaged, a jury did not convict four defendants. Nevertheless, the overstated reactions are not constructive.

Thanks for your input I do have a bit of an idea about the Jury system as I served on a couple of cases in 1975 and the antics of some of the Jurors were childlike.

The legal system is not without its flaws; juries do on occasion deliver unexpected or counterintuitive verdicts.
[I read a notorious recent jury decision in the US may be dismissed and a new trial owing to one juror's post trial remarks. Costly, and probably damaging to the principle of trial by jury.]
Trial by jury comes under threat from all sides at frequent intervals. Respect it; or you may lose it.

[Little Londoner]

I wonder how many of the commentators have any connection to Bristol. Arguments about the Atkinson are irrelevant because they are in a different context.

I don't suppose anybody on the forum believes that the toppled statues of Saddam Hussein, Nicolae Ceausescu and Hitler were acts of vandalism.

Probably all posters on here would agree that vandalism of the statue of Churchill would be wrong although.I hope you would acknowledge that the unequalled war leader and author had many darker aspects to his life and character.

So acceptable protest vs vandalism is a matter of degree.

I am from Bristol originally, and I am white. Edward Colston was a slave trader, he wasn't of his time like Atkinson ,he made his fortune kidnapping black people and then selling the few that survived the journey. In my day, Colston ran through the city, there was the ugly statue, two large schools and the cities main concert venue. Bristol is a multicultural city and has been for many many years, in particular it has a very large population of Afro-Carribean heritage. To them, Colston was a celebration of a time when white people could own black people.

I don't feel that I should apologise for crimes against black people that I am not implicated in, but I certainly don't think I should be celebrating those crimes.

Do you contribute to a pension ? if you do what "unethical" companies are providing you with dividends and growth do you know?

Colston may have invested in the shipping lines or even owned the shipping lines I doubt very much he went to Africa chasing natives around or even killing anyone but unlike now (except for the people traffickers ) such an undertaking would not last very long before being detected. As no one from that era is around to tell us how things were except in books which can be written to portray any view the author has. We used to hang starving white British children for stealing a loaf of bread. So in the context of that was a shipping company accepting a cargo to take over to the Americas as gruesome and horrific as hanging children we can't interview the captors the ships crew the shipping company as things at that time were nothing like today. If your family were Missionaries trying to educate and teach the natives about a non existent entity trying to rule their lives and they were murdered and put in a pot and boiled for tea would you have the same outlook.
Yes Colston made money and he used that money to improve the lives of Bristolians that is why the statue was there so why not burn down the Offices of Cunard P&O Maersk ACL just in case they may have derived from a company that were involved in transporting a human cargo.
As someone has pointed out History is History there would be nothing left if it was wiped from the records we should and do learn from it. As for Hitler Sadaam Hussein and Ceaucescu they built their own statues and subdued and killed their own people so I think there was every right for the celebration of their passing by the people they abused not someone 400/500 years down the line.
How many Afro Caribbeans living here actually send money for schools hospitals and any other much needed life saving developments in Africa.

[Alikado]

— your conclusion is unwarranted

…notwithstanding the Edward Colston statue was damaged, a jury did not convict four defendants. Nevertheless, the overstated reactions are not constructive.


The legal system is not without its flaws; juries do on occasion deliver unexpected or counterintuitive verdicts.
[I read a notorious recent jury decision in the US may be dismissed and a new trial owing to one juror's post trial remarks. Costly, and probably damaging to the principle of trial by jury.]
Trial by jury comes under threat from all sides at frequent intervals. Respect it; or you may lose it.

The overstated reactions should be directed at the prosecution / DPP, it is they that presented a case to court that was either too weak or too poorly presented to obtain a conviction.

Maxwell's lawyers are clutching at straws, they where involved in the selection of jurors, it should also be against the law for jurors to speak to the media about a case or conviction.

[sandGroundZero]

I've often puzzled as to why more American 'blacks', now that they are 'free' and better off financially, don't go back to their roots?

1. have you researched how many "American 'blacks' …go back to their roots?"
2. are you implying that American 'blacks' are not rooted in America?

Their money, education, western knowledge and ways, could make a valuable contribution to improve lives in struggling West African republics.

I recall not long ago [in some thread, or other] you were extolling the virtues of precolonial ways …
In any case, there seems to be one or two slightly unsavoury implications.

[Desert Region]

Are you, a racist, trying to take the high moral ground?

I do so hope I wasn't overstating my opinion there - what a great threat to our values that would be...

[Desert Region]

1. have you researched how many "American 'blacks' …go back to their roots?"
2. are you implying that American 'blacks' are not rooted in America?

I recall not long ago [in some thread, or other] you were extolling the virtues of precolonial ways …
In any case, there seems to be one or two slightly unsavoury implications.

Steady now - aren't you supposed to act as the apologist for the PNP's views on race?


"...seems to be one or two slightly unsavoury implications."

Powerful stuff! (Slightly.)

[Desert Region]

There are a lot of things I don't like so if i take it upon myself to destroy them it'll be ok then. Thanks for your input I do have a bit of an idea about the Jury system as I served on a couple of cases in 1975 and the antics of some of the Jurors were childlike.

sGZ's lack of experience doesn't preclude him from the right to lecture you and waffle.

[Hamble]

So what next, will it be acceptable to go out and trash all Japanese and German cars because of the atrocities that happened during WW2.

Do the same to VW Beetle car’s because Hitler called them “the peoples car”

Set fire to all Hugo Boss shops and clothing because they supplied uniforms to the Nazi army and SS.

Where do you draw the line as to what’s ok to vandalise and what’s not.

History cannot be erased or changed, we should learn from it and ensure bad history isn’t repeated.
.

We would not buy a German car.
We buy Japanese that does not make us selfish in our grief.
Neither would we think or pass comment on those who do buy German cars.

I would expect a Council elected by residents to listen to public reason.

[Hamble]

Anyone would think slavery was a thing of the past.

Got to look at the positives in this ruling.
Slavery is abhorent modern slavery is abhorent.
The publicity given to Bristol means it is very unlikely any perpetrator
could defend or plead ignorance of holding a person against their will for
financial gain.

[Kippax]

We would not buy a German car.
We buy Japanese that does not make us selfish in our grief.
Neither would we think or pass comment on those who do buy German cars.

I would expect a Council elected by residents to listen to public reason.

l drive a Japanese car and don’t have a problem with it, my wife’s grandfather was a POW and worked on the Burma Railway, he survived but was never the same physically or mentally.

I have absolutely no desire to destroy anything linked to slavery, war atrocities or anything that I don’t like or agree with.

These things are there to remind us of man’s inhumanity to his fellow man, they can’t be changed and everyone should learn from such acts.

But there are a growing number of people who seem intent on “righting historical wrongs” even though it’s impossible to do so.

[MICK/GILLY]

I have got a Land Rover with a bmw engine, I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it .

[Hamble]

l drive a Japanese car and don’t have a problem with it, my wife’s grandfather was a POW and worked on the Burma Railway, he survived but was never the same physically or mentally.

I have absolutely no desire to destroy anything linked to slavery, war atrocities or anything that I don’t like or agree with.

These things are there to remind us of man’s inhumanity to his fellow man, they can’t be changed and everyone should learn from such acts.

But there are a growing number of people who seem intent on “righting historical wrongs” even though it’s impossible to do so.

Colston is slightly different he gave funded and legacied charitable donations providing a benefit to many people.
Reappraising Colston's depravity meant ending historical benefacting in his name.
Many of the benefacting charities voluntarilly did so before the statue was toppled.

I think I have used this example before in another context.
Historical wrongs are not made right by time judging them on the standards of the day is important.

Colston failed that test even in his time he new by public and National opinion slavery was inhumane he still supported it.