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  1. #76
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    Is the Bentley we are talking about THE Bentley, as in cars, which had to be rescued in 2018 and now is OWNED BY VW? That one?





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  3. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by bensherman View Post
    Is the Bentley we are talking about THE Bentley, as in cars, which had to be rescued in 2018 and now is OWNED BY VW? That one?
    Yes that's the one staffed by British people now making high quality vehicles but don't worry you can still denigrate them if it makes you happy.

    I am sure you will find something to complain about with all British workers success you have already shown you don't give a toss about them.

    Typical closet ultra right-winger.

  4. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by The PNP View Post
    You really are such a stewpot - I've always wanted us in the EU (and its earlier iterations) since even before we ever joined!
    Yet another bit of your fertile imagination.

    I'm sure you're not old enough to have had any thoughts on the establishment of the Common Market in Belgium on March 27, 1957...

    But, as I say, you make it up as you go along.

  5. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    Yes that's the one staffed by British people now making high quality vehicles but don't worry you can still denigrate them if it makes you happy.

    I am sure you will find something to complain about with all British workers success you have already shown you don't give a toss about them.

    Typical closet ultra right-winger.
    Dear me

    Where have I denigrated British workers? or Britain?

    It is a fact that VW rescued Bentley, like BMW did Mini. Nothing to do with "denigrating British workers"

    And that Bentley's performance has little to do with Brexit, although it will have increased its costs.

    I do resent the habit of Brexit supporters thinking they define what is patriotic. There is nothing patriotic in disabling the country you live in and making it economically vulnerable. If there was Luftwaffe pilots would have qualified.

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  7. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by bensherman View Post
    Dear me

    Where have I denigrated British workers? or Britain?

    It is a fact that VW rescued Bentley, like BMW did Mini. Nothing to do with "denigrating British workers"

    And that Bentley's performance has little to do with Brexit, although it will have increased its costs.

    I do resent the habit of Brexit supporters thinking they define what is patriotic. There is nothing patriotic in disabling the country you live in and making it economically vulnerable. If there was Luftwaffe pilots would have qualified.
    Couldn't agree more, these brain washed Brexiteers quite illogically take any criticism of Brexit as criticism British workers, companies based in Britain or even the entire country, can they not understand it's nothing of the sort.

    Possibly in their Brexit fevered thinking we should all fall down in adoration of Johnson and Brexit, any logical thought or hint of reality simply isn't permissible, if it disagrees with "glorious" Brexit.

  8. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by bensherman View Post


    It is a fact that VW rescued Bentley, like BMW did Mini. Nothing to do with "denigrating British workers"
    Rolls-Royce was sold to Vickers after going into receivership before it ever became part of the VW Group.

    BMW gained control of the Mini brand in 1994 after it acquired the Rover Group (formerly British Leyland) and its associated brands and factories. It later sold off most of them six years later whilst retaining the right to continue building the Mini.

    It's produced in a modern factory and is much larger than the original, although some still confuse Mini with size rather than brand!

  9. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by silver fox View Post
    Couldn't agree more, these brain washed Brexiteers quite illogically take any criticism of Brexit as criticism British workers, companies based in Britain or even the entire country, can they not understand it's nothing of the sort.

    Possibly in their Brexit fevered thinking we should all fall down in adoration of Johnson and Brexit, any logical thought or hint of reality simply isn't permissible, if it disagrees with "glorious" Brexit.

    One size fits all! You could not be more wrong. As for brainwashed?? Just because everyone came to their own independent conclusion that we are all better off outside the EU and that it opposes your own view you believe we are all brainwashed. The brainwashing machine is the television (proven) and to a lesser extent the newspapers. I have very little to do with either. Rather than sitting watching a God box,I do a lot of reading or I go out socialising - I have no time to sit around watching what I am told to.

    Brexit was an organised event. Whether you agree or not. UKIP, under Farage - was intended to last until there was a positive result - end of. The UK was doing more trade outside the EU than in it. Trade within the EU had the figures fudged. Anything that went through the English Channel was registered as EU goods even if they were just passing through.

    What do you know about how many times the EU received fines, how many armed conflicts it supported, how corrupt the farming subsidy was, how little it helped the people while professing otherwise, protected trade etc.,

    How much do you understand about Worldwide single marketing groups, or the corruption of loans to external countries, the number of childish and expensive policies issued.

    I am talking £Billions here - all wasted!

  10. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    One size fits all! You could not be more wrong. As for brainwashed?? Just because everyone came to their own independent conclusion that we are all better off outside the EU and that it opposes your own view you believe we are all brainwashed. The brainwashing machine is the television (proven) and to a lesser extent the newspapers. I have very little to do with either. Rather than sitting watching a God box,I do a lot of reading or I go out socialising - I have no time to sit around watching what I am told to.

    Brexit was an organised event. Whether you agree or not. UKIP, under Farage - was intended to last until there was a positive result - end of. The UK was doing more trade outside the EU than in it. Trade within the EU had the figures fudged. Anything that went through the English Channel was registered as EU goods even if they were just passing through.

    What do you know about how many times the EU received fines, how many armed conflicts it supported, how corrupt the farming subsidy was, how little it helped the people while professing otherwise, protected trade etc.,

    How much do you understand about Worldwide single marketing groups, or the corruption of loans to external countries, the number of childish and expensive policies issued.

    I am talking £Billions here - all wasted!
    Do keep up, my post related to the bizarre belief that anything anti Brexit became unpatriotic, anti British etc, this is a load of rubbish, which is why I used the term brain washed.

    As far as the rest of your lecture is concerned, have long ago learned to treat your utterances with at best suspicion or mainly with disdain.

    Agree on wasted £billions, all poured into the Brexit black hole.

    As far as anything concerning Brexit, I along with many others are still waiting to see the slightest benefit, were is it?

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  12. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    One size fits all! You could not be more wrong. As for brainwashed?? Just because everyone came to their own independent conclusion that we are all better off outside the EU and that it opposes your own view you believe we are all brainwashed. The brainwashing machine is the television (proven) and to a lesser extent the newspapers. I have very little to do with either. Rather than sitting watching a God box,I do a lot of reading or I go out socialising - I have no time to sit around watching what I am told to.

    Brexit was an organised event. Whether you agree or not. UKIP, under Farage - was intended to last until there was a positive result - end of. The UK was doing more trade outside the EU than in it. Trade within the EU had the figures fudged. Anything that went through the English Channel was registered as EU goods even if they were just passing through.

    What do you know about how many times the EU received fines, how many armed conflicts it supported, how corrupt the farming subsidy was, how little it helped the people while professing otherwise, protected trade etc.,

    How much do you understand about Worldwide single marketing groups, or the corruption of loans to external countries, the number of childish and expensive policies issued.

    I am talking £Billions here - all wasted!
    "Everyone came to their own conclusion we were better off outside the EU"...no they didn't. 16m of us didn't for a start. And over 200 polls over the last two years suggest that a clear majority now think it is a foolish action.
    You make wild and completely unsubstantiated claims about the EU's actions which could just as easily be made about the UK.
    And the "television brainwashes" (proven) ..remark is simply childish..adding "proven" adds nothing..BTW I don't see anyone here ( or maybe one) who is a more clear example of brainwashing than you. Where does yours come from? The arrogance of thinking you are the repository of truth while the rest of us are deluded is quite offensive.

  13. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by bensherman View Post
    "Everyone came to their own conclusion we were better off outside the EU"...no they didn't. 16m of us didn't for a start. And over 200 polls over the last two years suggest that a clear majority now think it is a foolish action.
    You make wild and completely unsubstantiated claims about the EU's actions which could just as easily be made about the UK.
    And the "television brainwashes" (proven) ..remark is simply childish..adding "proven" adds nothing..BTW I don't see anyone here ( or maybe one) who is a more clear example of brainwashing than you. Where does yours come from? The arrogance of thinking you are the repository of truth while the rest of us are deluded is quite offensive.
    OK - I get your point, I apologise if you are offended by anything I have said or done - but is your 'taking offence'due to you having opposite views? Quite honestly, and this has been repeated many times by many people - what exactly is your desire to remain in the EU? For what reasons do you wish to remain. I have not heard one good argument for doing so.

    Single market? The policies favoured some countries above others, protectionalism, job losses, etc., As EU membership increased so it became slower in responding to an ever changing market. As time increased so did the number of other single market groups appear in competition to the EU that eventually would lead to there being no benefit at all. Industry and farming were reduced in the UK to accommodate the single market, milllions of people lost jobs but the economy did not improve. Less work for local farmers, local fisherman increase in fast grown foods that contain reduced dietary benefits. Higher costs for fish products. So what are the benefits?

    In1950, there were many mind experiments carried out, including using the television. Taking a very simple example - You have been sitting watching television for a while in the evening and have become relaxed and perhaps a bit tired. Then on the screen someone gets up to make a sandwich - suddenly you feel hungry. That is a simple form of brainwashing. Or on one of the soaps, someone uses a handwash, nothing is said, but the label shows - then when you are out shopping you see the same label and without thinking too much about it you buy it. Very simple - now take that further. You are told about a certain event - OK you do not think that much about it - until the event is shown to you with full graphics - then you believe it. But what if those graphics are all an act, a performance - because this has not been told to you, you don't even think it is wrong, you believe it.
    You see a bomb go off, you see people screaming and lying injured on the floor. You believe it. You trust the information you are being fed. I remember seeing one of those events - a bomb went off,a person 20 feet away is seriously injured - but the municipal waste bin between the bomb and that person was not affected - how is that?

  14. #86
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    I have no doubt that information, from any source, can be manipulated.

    It's up to us as adults to discriminate about what we see and hear, and where we can to check alternate sources.
    The other issue is to weight the source. It may be (sadly) not widely believed but the BBC remains for me the best-moderated news source anywhere. Sources are checked and editors stop presenters inserting their own views.

    That's why, for years, I was completely happy with Andrew Neill presenting the daily pre-eminent politics programme. I know I disagree with him on most things but I knew it would be balanced.

    Neill's credibility was such that I was staggered that people did not clock when Johnson ran away from being interviewed for the 2019 election, that was because his acolytes knew his stance would be shredded in minutes.

    I find it extremely depressing that people attack the BBC as impartial but are utterly uncritical about accepting totally unmoderated stuff from some bloke on Facebook..and even boast about how "well-informed" they are. The worst fools are those who don't know they are.

    As for why be in the EU, I could be here for hours. Prosperity, reduced costs, ease of travel and domicile, co-ordinated policing....the list would have dozens of points. It is not perfect, but to leave it was a desperately self-harming way to deal with it.

    And the lies ignorance and exploitation of prejudice exploited by Brexit's champions is profoundly depressing. It is breath-taking, while still no surprise, to find that Johnson a year into his government, had not realised that what he championed left us out of the customs union. Try walking along the queue of lorries in Kent and asking the drivers now what they think of that.

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  16. #87
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    I do look forward to our resident trade expert explaining to us how the 37% of business owners in this survey fear they will shut within a year because of Brexit.
    And how 70% of owners have seen no benefit from Brexit.
    https://www.cityam.com/one-in-three-...t-intensifies/
    They must not be paying attention.

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  18. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by bensherman View Post
    I do look forward to our resident trade expert explaining to us how the 37% of business owners in this survey fear they will shut within a year because of Brexit.
    And how 70% of owners have seen no benefit from Brexit.
    https://www.cityam.com/one-in-three-...t-intensifies/
    They must not be paying attention.
    These companies clearly don't have the information and expert knowledge that our tame Brexiteers have,

  19. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by bensherman View Post
    I do look forward to our resident trade expert explaining to us how the 37% of business owners in this survey fear they will shut within a year because of Brexit.
    And how 70% of owners have seen no benefit from Brexit.
    https://www.cityam.com/one-in-three-...t-intensifies/
    They must not be paying attention.
    But you are our resident trade expert you have told us a number of times.
    The fact I keep pointing out your mistakes makes me think your either a fantasist or having problems remembering.

    You don't even know who is responsible for the border delays.

    Perhaps someone could run you through who checks what.

    Not that you would listen.

  20. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    But you are our resident trade expert you have told us a number of times.
    The fact I keep pointing out your mistakes makes me think your either a fantasist or having problems remembering.

    You don't even know who is responsible for the border delays.

    Perhaps someone could run you through who checks what.

    Not that you would listen.
    "Who is responsible"...we are encountering the hurdles which we knew would follow from 2016 and which are applied by the EU to any third country. The arrogance and incompetence of this government mean that despite having years to get ready, we aren't.
    Though border delays are only the tip of the iceberg as far as the future of our businesses is concerned.

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