Zelensky - What do you know

[Toodles McGinty]

Own up, who left the gate to the paranoia farm open?

[local]

I think its my fault, all those atoms disturbed.

And the thing isn't even finished.

By the time the attributions and citations are done

[ausard2]

Then one does have to ask.
If he's stinking rich.
DOES IT REALLY MATTER AND IS JEALOUSY GETTING THE BETTER OF YOU????

[Snig's foot]

Then one does have to ask.
If he's stinking rich.
DOES IT REALLY MATTER AND IS JEALOUSY GETTING THE BETTER OF YOU????

Yes, from my schooldays I remember a kid called Jimmy Mulville, who use to make us laugh.
Who he? He's a founder of Hat Trick Productions (maker of Have I got News for You, Whose Line is it Anyway? and Derry Girls amongst others).
He's been a multi-millionaire for many years now.
You can be a bit of a joke and get very rich.

[Snig's foot]

"said
OK! Let's see if you people can remember how these issues originated:
1991 - Ukraine gains independence from Russia. National companies are sold off and privatised. This privatisation was aided by the Ukraine government. A number of Ukrainian ogliarchs emerged among government corruption and forced takeovers. Leonard Kravchuk elected the President of the Ukraine. The USA installed a consulate in the city of Kyiv.
1992. The USA upgraded the consulate to an embassy.
1994. Clinton, Kravchuk and Yeltsin sign Trilateral Statement re.elimination of Nuclear Weapons in the Ukraine. July - Leonard Kuchma elected as second President in the Ukraine. Clinton, Kuchma, Yeltsin and Major sign Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances in the Ukraine. Ukraine accedes to non- nuclear weapons state.
1995. Clinton visits Kyiv.
1996. US/Ukraine Straytegic Partnership is formed and the Gore Kuchma binational commission is announced.
1997. NATO - Ukraine form a distinctive partnership. First NATO - Ukraine summit meeting.
1999. Kuchma wins re-election as President of Ukraine.
2002 US-UK visit Ukraine to discuss Kolchuga Question. (The Kolchuga is a passive sensor developed in the Soviet Union and manufactured in the Ukraine.It is a sophisticated defence system)
The US, after having sign a partnership agreement with the Ukraine - were not happy that this valuable defence system had been sold by the Ukrainians to Iraq. Russia was far from happy since it had been developed in the Soviet Union and had now fallen into the hands of the USA and Iraq.", etc, etc..

It does go on a bit Said, and is rather one-sided, but isn't bad as a recent history of Ukraine. It must then be compared to Russia with its de facto President for Life, minimal opposition, and when the opposition become effective they are arrested or poisoned. Russia's habit of interfering in its near neighbours through setting up local militias then invading on the pretext of 'defending' them. (See Georgia (2008), Ukraine/Crimea (2014), Ukraine (2022).
Whilst Moscow and Putin like to celebrate the 'Great Patriotic War' when the helped defeat Nazi Germany (1941-1945) let's not forget that they were allies with Germany from 1939-1941, annexed the Baltic States, were at war with and defeated Finland, then invaded Finland too.
I don't like the current regimes in Ukraine or Russia (not keen on the UK one either come to that), but which country is the more 'Nazi' (Putin's 'excuse' for the war) ? Hmm, let me think about that....

[silver fox]

Did you know that Russian Scientists when working under communist rule, worked for very little money. But they invented and developed some really fantastic weapons. Not that it is of little interest to you - but I found those inventions fascinating. Did you read about the Kolchuga - fascinating! After the US had allied with the Ukraine, they went over to Kiev to obtain one of these for themselves - and they were royally pi..ss..d to discover the Ukrainians has sold one to Saddam.

Here we go again, usual half assed post, the Kolchuga system was developed in Moscow and Donetsk, the original system had attributes in that it was a passive system, very difficult to detect, and had an extremely long range, particularly for a passive system, it's limitations were that it needed line of sight and could only detect active radio transmissions, anything shielded by terrain etc was invisible to the system.

When the USSR fell apart both Russia and Ukraine had the systems and of course all the R&D data, however it was Ukraine who embarked on an 8 year development project, they now claim that the system will cover and identify any active radio emissions from land sea and air, by all accounts their claims are correct.

It would appear that Ukrainian rather than Russian scientists perfected the system.

[ausard2]

Remember we only know what we are told.
Media spend between 4 & 6 hour’s each day filming recording, then THEY decide what THEY want you to see.
So what do you actually know ?????????

[said]

Here we go again, usual half assed post, the Kolchuga system was developed in Moscow and Donetsk, the original system had attributes in that it was a passive system, very difficult to detect, and had an extremely long range, particularly for a passive system, it's limitations were that it needed line of sight and could only detect active radio transmissions, anything shielded by terrain etc was invisible to the system.

When the USSR fell apart both Russia and Ukraine had the systems and of course all the R&D data, however it was Ukraine who embarked on an 8 year development project, they now claim that the system will cover and identify any active radio emissions from land sea and air, by all accounts their claims are correct.

It would appear that Ukrainian rather than Russian scientists perfected the system.

You have some good arguments which would be challenging if you left the all telling personal insults out.
If you want to be pendantic - I believe it was a combined achievement. The original passive surveillance system was pioneered by Vlastimil Pech, who was Czech. His Ramona systems were sold to the Russians, who further developed them, (Kolchuga) then the Ukrainians. Had there been a full out war during the Cold War - NATO would have lost out because the West still has not adopted such superior systems.

"New initiatives, if quickly and actively pursued, can reverse current disadvantages and keep the West ahead of its potential opponents. The alert must be vigorously sounded, for whatever is done in the West, passive surveillance is fast becoming the preferred surveillance system of choice in many non-Western states. The Information Age has everywhere loudly advertised its presence, not only in the military presses but also in the electromagnetic ether. Against the Serbs, NATO just about coped; against tougher and larger opposition it could be a very different story." The Royal Air Force - Air Power.

[said]

[QUOTE=Snig's foot;6815868]"said



I get what you are saying - but like Ausard says - 'we only know what we are told' Either the real truth is very transparent for all to see e.g The Skripals and the Novichok nerve agent poisoning, (false in obvious ways) or it is hidden, and will not be known for some while, e.g. Ukraine War.
Russia is no more corrupt than any other country. Syria begged the US for help with their civil war against the terrorists - not once but three times. The discussions with the Syrian foreign Minister are all video taped. So Russia who was allied with, and had been selling arms to Syria was the next choice. The US backed off.
When the US decided to attack Iraq, Russia, the Ukraine, Jordan, Syria and the UAE, each conspired to circumvent the weapons inspections protocols carried out by LLoyds, and sent weapons to Iraq, some of those weapons had been supplied by the US to aid Jordan and to build the arms supplies of the UAE. Both the latter being close allies of the US. You would have an almighty headache if you tried to follow it all.
It is well known that there are in the Ukraine a large group of dissidents who originated from WW2, who were Nazi sympathisers. Their descendants and others are still active in the Ukraine. They were the protestors which the US sent in arms for.

The oligarchs influence on the Ukraine Government is extreme and should not be over estimated. These present day oligarchs had nothing until the Ukraine gained independence. Tymoshenko, has on estimates around $15 Billion, she was charged with corruption and fraud and sentenced to several years in prison. Somehow or other she was released and pardoned to allow her to become a candidate for the Presidency of the Ukraine. She became closely associated with the US - Obama had favoured her for President. The US engineered the inauguration of Zelensky, who has never held any position of office in the Government, unlike ALL his predecessors?? Zelensky was also involved with corruption, at least by association.

Pakistan news reports that he largest plane ever built, the Russian Mriya was in the Ukraine for repair. But the Russians bombed the area and the aircraft is going to cost £3 million for additional work with the Ukrainians picking up the tab. Who knows?

[sandGroundZero]

I get what you are saying - but like Ausard says - 'we only know what we are told' Either the real truth is very transparent for all to see e.g The Skripals and the Novichok nerve agent poisoning, (false in obvious ways) or it is hidden, and will not be known for some while, e.g. Ukraine War.

For forum readers' amusement, please give us the low-down on:

"Skripals and the Novichok nerve agent poisoning, (false in obvious ways) …"

[Hamble]

Yes, from my schooldays I remember a kid called Jimmy Mulville, who use to make us laugh.
Who he? He's a founder of Hat Trick Productions (maker of Have I got News for You, Whose Line is it Anyway? and Derry Girls amongst others).
He's been a multi-millionaire for many years now.
You can be a bit of a joke and get very rich.

I love Derry Girls the final episode was moving and fantastic in so many ways.

[Little Londoner]

Anyway just to lighten the proceedings a little, Pukins daughter is shacked up with a Russian called Zelensky I bet his background has been well researched.

Pukin must be regally pee'd off he is having his piles sorted by having a hedgehog inserted in his backside.

[shippy]

Anyway

Pukin must be regally pee'd off he is having his piles sorted by having a hedgehog inserted in his backside.

That made me laugh.

[said]

For forum readers' amusement, please give us the low-down on:

"Skripals and the Novichok nerve agent poisoning, (false in obvious ways) …"

Let's just see how fast your brain works?

Skripal was born in 1942. His daughter was born in 1985 when Skripal was 43 years of age. He also had a son who was born in 1974, called Alexandre. Alexandre died of alcoholic poisoning in the UK in 2017.

It is said that Skripal joined the Russian Intelligence in 1990, when he was 52 years of age. It appears that he was almost immediately employed by MI6 to whom he revealed the names of several Russian spies. Skripol left the Intelligence Service in 1999, and was arrested in 2003. In 2004/2006 (Depending on which source you read) he had been charged with treason and sentenced to 13 years in prison. It appears that Skripol had named some ten sleeping Russian spies in the USA along with some European spies, although they had not been activated, had never carried out any spying.

So the US arranged a spy exchange in Vienna. The spy exchange program is a scheme where spies who have spent a long term in prison can be released There were ten American sleepers, including Anna Chapman exchanged for four active Russian spies - Sergie Skripal 4 yrs spent in prison, Igor Sutyagin 6 years in prison, Alexander Zaporozhsky, 6 years in prison and Gannady Vasilenko who had been released the year before the exchange took place. and Skripal had decided to move to the UK, and had bis wife and son brought over to Salisbury. His wife died a year later of Cancer/Liver failure or a Car crash. His son died 5 years later.

The poisoning incident took place in 2018, eight years after the said spy swap. On March 3rd 2018, Skripol's daughter, Yulia - travelled from Russia to Heathrow, quite freely arriving at 14.40. The next day Sergei and his daughter were observed in Salisbury, driving toward the town centre. They called at the Bishops Mill pub in town before going to Zizzi's Restaurant in the town. They left the Restaurant at 15.35. At 16.15. a man and a woman were found unconscious on a bench, there was foam around the man's mouth. The Police were called to attend, there were three who were present, and almost an hour later the man and woman were taken to hospital in separate vehicles, by two different teams of ambulance staff. The news broadcast very quickly announced that a poison Novichok had been used and this was a Russian nerve gas.

I can deal with Navalny later - so staying with the Skripols:

Why was Yulia Skripol allowed to travel so freely to the UK if the Russian's had planned to poison her and her father?
Why was Sergei Skripol not poisoned during the six years he was held in a Russian prison?
Why were the other spies released at the same time as Skripol, not attacked with poison when they had carried out far greater treason
than Skripol?
Why was Skripol thought to be a greater risk?
Why would a poison practically labelled 'Made in Russia' be used by Russian agents - why not use knives, or a gun as used commonly by criminals in the UK today - thus less easier to identify?
Two of the Police in attendance at the park suffered symptoms of itchy eyes, while the third who called at the Skripols house was said to be very ill for weeks - then why did the ambulance staff not suffer any symptoms? Nor the restaurant staff? Nor the staff in the Pub? Yet a man became very ill and a woman died, after it is said they found the perfume phial containing the poison in the park.

The symptoms of Novichok poisoning are as follows: These do not include foaming at the mouth. The effects occur within 2 SECONDS - 13 SECONDS of ingesting the poison, a FEW MINUTES after breathing in the vapour and 2 HOURS by skin absorbtion. The symptoms are those of most nerve gases. Conaimintion can be by breathing near others, coughing and sneezing and by touch.

Novichok was manufactured in 1993, and is stockpiled in several laboratories Worldwide, including the UK.

"Nerve agents are chemicals that affect the nervous system. The health effects are similar to those produced by some pesticides. The main nerve agents are the chemicals sarin (GB), soman (GD), tabun (GA) and VX. These agents are man-made and have been manufactured for use in chemical warfare. These agents are known to be present in military stockpiles of several nations, including the United States, Europe and the Middle East."

• pinpoint pupils of the eye
• excessive production of mucous, tears, saliva and sweat
• headache
• stomach pain, nausea and vomiting
• chest tightness and shortness of breath
• loss of bladder and bowel control
• muscle twitching
• seizures
• coma
• death

[sandGroundZero]

Zelensky now President of Ukraine, was a one time small bit actor, comedian and dancer. Now 44 years old. He allegedly started his own show business company that featured a satire that ran for three seasons during 2015 - 2019.
…

Recapitulating a post in another thread: Volodymyr Zelensky had a very successful career as a show business entrepreneur prior to his entry into Ukrainian politics. His troupe, Kvartal 95 declined a lucrative contract extension providing programming for Russian television when the latter attempted to persuade Zelensky to curb Kvartal 95's political satire. It is true that his business activities were investigated in connection with opaque 'offshore' assets. In a short biography available in Sefton's libraries, Zelensky explains this saying the business practices of post-Soviet Russia (& Ukraine) were such that convoluted transactions were inescapable.

Whatever might be discovered regarding Zelensky's financial dealings, he was undoubtedly an energetic and successful entrepreneur. All the evidence I've been able to access suggest that Volodymyr Zelensky was genuinely determined to bring endemic corruption in Ukraine to an end. Like Russia, Ukraine was plagued by oligarchic brigandage. Interestingly, in the process his government resorted to some constitutionally high-handed tactics that earned it a degree of opprobrium from the EU and other international observers. Ironically, had Vladimir Putin's invasion not intervened turning Zelensky into a wartime leader, Zelensky's government's efforts may well have faltered. A colossal own goal for V. V. Putin & team Russia?