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  1. Published on: 17/05/2022 10:13 AMReported by: editor
    Name:  sustrans-cycle.JPG
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Size:  198.3 KB

    This sustrans project seem to have crept under the radar from the media and many residents in Southport. Sustrans are the same organisation that is working with Sefton Council on the plans for a liveable neighbourhood.

    Quoting from their website:

    Our Schools Programme tackles the congestion, poor air quality and road safety concerns that many schools experience. We do this by restricting motor traffic at the school gates for a short period of time, generally at drop-off and pick-up times.

    We are working with 3 schools in Sefton to increase active travel and improve journeys to school.
    Read in full here

    https://southportschools-sustrans-uk.hub.arcgis.com/

    The pilot in Sefton involves the secondary schools of Birkdale High, Greenbank, and Stanley.

    Yesterday, Monday May 16th there was a Parent / Resident design session for Birkdale High.

    There is one today 3pm-7pm for Greenbank, and Stanley scheduled for May 24th.

    Please email southport@qlocal.co.uk if you have views on this.






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    Your Comments:


  3. lawed143 says:17/05/2022 12:28 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by editor View Post
    Name:  sustrans-cycle.JPG
Views: 0
Size:  198.3 KB

    This sustrans project seem to have crept under the radar from the media and many residents in Southport. Sustrans are the same organisation that is working with Sefton Council on the plans for a liveable neighbourhood.
    .
    Wow.! You’re not at all an impartial organisation are you.?
    Crept under the radar.?

  4. Likes town36, The PNP liked this post
  5. justbecause says:17/05/2022 01:38 PM
    Funny how this is a pilot scheme for SEFTON, but all three schools JUST happen to be in Southport.

  6. r4dent says:17/05/2022 02:34 PM
    Sustrans must be very careful when they define the objectives of their scheme.
    Hopefully this project will have SMART objectives that will be used to prove success or failure.

    A few years back my friend (at that time he was an Inspector in Traffic) ran a pilot project to reduce the number of accidents near schools at drop off / pick up times.
    The plan was very simple, Police Officers would be high profile near schools at the critical times. Zero tolerance to any illegal stopping near schools. Double parking / blocking drives / Yellow lines / etc. Stop illegally and you got a ticket, no exception.

    When the data was examined it showed a significant reduction in pedestrian / vehicle accidents near the schools.
    But, and it is a very big but, there was an increase in serious injury accidents.

    Further analysis showed that the illegal parking had created chicanes and road blockages which reduced the speed of traffic. Removal had increased the traffic speed.
    Less children were being hit, but by vehicles that were travelling at higher speeds!
    The project was not rolled out.

  7. Likes town36 liked this post
  8. salus.populi says:17/05/2022 03:58 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by lawed143 View Post
    Wow.! You’re not at all an impartial organisation are you.?
    Crept under the radar.?
    Yeah god forbid the kids riding to school get to have their say before it's all hijacked by the Anti Cycle Path Psychopaths.

  9. Likes K-T liked this post
  10. salus.populi says:17/05/2022 03:59 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by justbecause View Post
    Funny how this is a pilot scheme for SEFTON, but all three schools JUST happen to be in Southport.
    All the money goes to Bootle, more should be spent in Southport...
    No, not like that!

  11. Likes K-T liked this post
  12. The PNP says:17/05/2022 04:06 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by r4dent View Post
    Further analysis showed that the illegal parking had created chicanes and road blockages which reduced the speed of traffic. Removal had increased the traffic speed.
    Less children were being hit, but by vehicles that were travelling at higher speeds!
    The project was not rolled out.
    Sounds like, with a clear road ahead, vehicles were not reducing their speed to 20mph when the school warning lights were operating. I see this ignorant behaviour whenever I am passing between Carr Cross and Jacksmere Lane at those times - everyone just drives blithely through at 30mph, as if the 20mph restriction didn't exist!

    The solution of course, would be permanent physical measures outside all schools, e.g. speed-humps and in some cases chicanes.

  13. justbecause says:17/05/2022 04:34 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by The PNP View Post
    Sounds like, with a clear road ahead, vehicles were not reducing their speed to 20mph when the school warning lights were operating. I see this ignorant behaviour whenever I am passing between Carr Cross and Jacksmere Lane at those times - everyone just drives blithely through at 30mph, as if the 20mph restriction didn't exist!

    The solution of course, would be permanent physical measures outside all schools, e.g. speed-humps and in some cases chicanes.
    Yes of course you do, funny how you always seem to be in the right place at the right time.
    Incidentally, and whilst in no way condoning it, the piece of road you are highlighting, IS 30mph, so IF, as you claim “everyone just drives blithely through at 30mph”, they aren’t actually breaking the law, 20mph is only only advisory.

  14. MICK/GILLY says:17/05/2022 05:39 PM
    Looks like a great thing they are doing that’s long overdue and I can’t understand why some of you are moaning about it .

  15. Likes The PNP, K-T liked this post
  16. r4dent says:17/05/2022 06:04 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by The PNP View Post
    Sounds like, with a clear road ahead, vehicles were not reducing their speed to 20 mph when the school warning lights were operating.
    I said in my original post this was a few years back, well before the 20mph limit.

    Sustrans is quoted as saying there are three objectives to tackle Congestion /air quality / road safety . They say these will all be tackled by restricting motor traffic at the school gates.

    Depending on how the restrict the motor traffic at the school gates it may have an adverse effect on road safety.

    If the traffic at school gates is reduced by 10%, but RTCs go up by 5% is that success?
    If the traffic at school gates is increased by 15% and air pollution increases by 10% RTCs go down by 5% is that success?

    Too many projects are evaluated by "Fire an arrow, and the define the target as being where it lands."

    The point I am making is that Sustrans need to clearly state what the objectives are and set SMART targets to define success / failure. They need to do this before the project starts.

    I hope that they find a way to achieve all of their objectives, I'm just not confident of their ability to do so and prove that they have.
    Last edited by r4dent; 17/05/2022 at 06:39 PM.

  17. The PNP says:17/05/2022 06:14 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by justbecause View Post
    Yes of course you do, funny how you always seem to be in the right place at the right time.
    Incidentally, and whilst in no way condoning it, the piece of road you are highlighting, IS 30mph, so IF, as you claim “everyone just drives blithely through at 30mph”, they aren’t actually breaking the law, 20mph is only only advisory.
    That's incredible....I never knew that, and have always thought 20mph meant 20mph. Certainly explains why traffic always bunches up behind me, when I slow to 20mph for school lights. This is a clear-cut case for a simple change in the law, to make 20mph lights mandatory - which will undoubtedly save many young lives in the future.

  18. justbecause says:17/05/2022 06:18 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by r4dent View Post
    Like I said this was a few years back, before the 20mph limit.

    The point I was making was make sure you know what the objectives are and think how you will monitor success / failure.

    Too many projects are evaluated by "Fire an arrow, and the define the target as being where it lands."
    But the point he was making is that all drivers are homicidal maniacs who race everywhere at 100+mph.

  19. The PNP says:17/05/2022 06:40 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by justbecause View Post
    But the point he was making is that all drivers are homicidal maniacs who race everywhere at 100+mph.
    To be fair, it's only some drivers who do that.....The vast majority simply ignore speed limits (except where Average Speed Cameras are operating) and set their own 'limit' regardless.

  20. justbecause says:17/05/2022 07:07 PM
    QUOTE=The PNP;6815769]To be fair, it's only some drivers who do that.....The vast majority simply ignore speed limits (except where Average Speed Cameras are operating) and set their own 'limit' regardless.[/QUOTE]

    Including you of course, as you’ve freely admitted.

  21. The PNP says:17/05/2022 08:27 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by justbecause View Post
    QUOTE=The PNP;6815769]To be fair, it's only some drivers who do that.....The vast majority simply ignore speed limits (except where Average Speed Cameras are operating) and set their own 'limit' regardless.
    Including you of course, as you’ve freely admitted.[/QUOTE]

    As mentioned numerous times before, on M/ways and dual carriageways, I cruise at around 56mph. Elsewhere, I keep it within plus/minus 10%, which may equate equally to driving slightly slower than a limit as slightly above a limit.

    I don't see that as 'speeding', simply paying primary attention to the road environment (which fyi can change in a split second), rather than total fixation on the dash display. Fyi, I drive as if the Police are always behind me, which has always stood me in good stead - therefore speeding tickets never happen, lol.


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