Originally Posted by MICK/GILLY

Yea record yourself on your stupid little bicycle in AE just remember to take the stabilisers off. I am pointing to the law of common sense the only law that you will need to keep you alive on that little lollipop stick paperweight of a contraption you venture onto the Queens highway on in with proper traffic .

That's what I don't get.....On the one hand, you clearly recognise the inherent danger of riding pushbikes in traffic. On the other, you constantly oppose any measure meant to keep riders however young or old, safely away from live traffic. Tbh, I just don't get where you're coming from.

Originally Posted by The PNP

That's what I don't get.....On the one hand, you clearly recognise the inherent danger of riding pushbikes in traffic. On the other, you constantly oppose any measure meant to keep riders however young or old, safely away from live traffic. Tbh, I just don't get where you're coming from.

Precisely. Mick can only make up stuff that he sees as “the law of common sense”, (he actually referred to it as actual law earlier on). The problem with common sense is that it is subjective, and open to individual interpretation. Hence why we shave actual unambiguous laws and guidance that should be followed.

His demand that cyclists shouldn’t pull out to go past a parked vehicle If there is a another vehicle approaching from behind is ridiculous. The guy hasn’t got a clue. He’s jumped on a post about an undersubscribed meeting to voice his personal opinions on a subject he has zero knowledge of. He’s on a back foot and resorts to playground comments and insults. He hasn’t actually grown up yet.

Separation of cyclists and motor vehicles is the best solution all round for everybody. There will be some poor choices, there will be some mistakes, some will lose and some will gain, but the overall benefit to society as a whole will be far greater than any small losses.

I’m all for those that want to hold a meeting and have a discussion. But it has to be open to all. Excluding some of society because they don’t agree with your opinion on a subject, by an MP is professional suicide. Damien wants votes, he’s on a slippery slope to failure, and he’s clutching at straws hoping to get a populist vote and remain this towns MP. A dangerous strategy indeed.

Originally Posted by lawed143

Just remember - cyclists and pedestrians are at the top of the hierarchy in the HWC rules. Know your place, give cyclists room, and remember - we are recording you.

And also remember I AM RECORDING YOU TOO!

I have a 4K high definition Dashcam, front and rear cameras, GPS, Time and Speed stamped, just in case any cyclist does something stupid and comes off worst, so I can prove it was the cyclists fault and not mine.

Not having this "It's always the motorists fault" blame culture. I'll fight my corner.

Originally Posted by The PNP

That's what I don't get.....On the one hand, you clearly recognise the inherent danger of riding pushbikes in traffic. On the other, you constantly oppose any measure meant to keep riders however young or old, safely away from live traffic. Tbh, I just don't get where you're coming from.

I am only advocating awareness at all times and caution and highlighting how most of us were taught to ride a bicycle on the road properly with RESPECT for danger and an understanding how delicate and vulnerable you are on a bicycle and how to preserve life I have said to ride on the pavement if you are not sure I have said nobody wants to hurt anybody this thread is about cycle lanes and road closures and I think the minority have taken it too far as it’s becoming detrimental to the town and that is what this meeting is all about.
Some cyclists have taken it further presenting themselves as an opposition to motor vehicles and taking pleasure in slowing them down calling them names and being generally awkward on the road and having fun doing it, apart from the annoyance and the safety side it turns motorists off ALL cyclists and that’s what we have here in fact the worst thing you can do is cry the victim then say wah wah we will record you blah blah. Now the people that didn’t care about those that never grew up and still ride bicycles with no life are turned against them because of their attitude acting like little nasty children this is the reality of what’s going on here a minority of bad apple cyclists are ruining the barrel.
If you can’t ride safely with common sense or choose to annoy other road users or are unsure of your responsibilities to keep everyone safe on the road then it’s time to pack it in. That’s where I am coming from . Or is it just me that thinks this …..
I don’t think I have been insulting some people can’t take the truth, common sense is not subjective it’s a common sense and go on fill your boots pulling out into traffic overtaking parked cars without being aware maybe I am wrong.

Originally Posted by MICK/GILLY

I am only advocating awareness at all times and caution and highlighting how most of us were taught to ride a bicycle on the road properly with RESPECT for danger and an understanding how delicate and vulnerable you are on a bicycle........If you can’t ride safely with common sense or choose to annoy other road users or are unsure of your responsibilities to keep everyone safe on the road then it’s time to pack it in. That’s where I am coming from . Or is it just me that thinks this …..

Not everyone on a bike has the confidence, sense, experience or degree of ability, to be able to negotiate their way through todays bustling traffic. Some are still at primary school, others slow and elderly. Yes, you can tell them to 'pack it in'. But that would be a great shame and why should they anyway? When in more civilised societies, provision is made for all-comers to get about safely on their bikes, whatever their ability. That's what cycle infra is all about, nothing more and nothing less.

A few years ago my youngest son did bikeability at primary school, he came to me and said hey dad they taught us to ride in the middle of the road and they called it the primary position, he said you warned me about this and we both decided for him to take no notice of the ruddy fools and if he wasn’t sure he should just ride on the pavement.
Even today we laugh and make the noise whooosh that’s how quick you would go under a truck and he wouldn’t even feel the bump bump, and as we know the bus would have dragged you halfway to town before it realised, he learned how vacuum worked like that at a young age .
“Not everyone on a bike has the confidence, sense, experience or degree of ability,“

Yes I can’t argue with this comment …and primary school kids should be able to ride on the pavement and the elderly should have the common sense to ride carefully with respect for the dangers of the road as they were taught by parents as children or ride on the pavement, whatever the so called advice or even law nonesense is this week I can’t see anyone bothering kids or old folk on the pavement the pack it in comment was meant for those inbetween that could not fathom common sense or basic safety.
Anyway I agree this exercise tomorrow is for the benefit of politics and as support for Sunak is moving towards truss I wonder if that will influence our conservative chap to in the words of an old childrens tv favourite “ runaround now” but for now he is and to his credit listening to the voice of the many. No matter who turns up tomorrow there’s not much that can be done until the council decide but if the meeting is flooded with people and business owners then that’s a start to firing up the heat lances and peeling up these lanes . I think they didn’t give too much notice for this meeting but let’s see what happens and how it affects any decisions in the autumn. One of the threads on the first page tells of a cyclist holding up traffic for fun on the coast rd and being abusive and I am sorry to say this isn’t an exception this is the norm and it’s this that turns folk that once didn’t care against cyclists, in fact as soon as I see Lycra clad noddies I think Kin idiots and if it was just me then I would be a bad man unreasonably attacking poor cyclist heroes … but it’s not just me is it and I am not wrong am I.
As I said it’s a few bad apples that spoil it for the rest.

Originally Posted by MICK/GILLY

One of the threads on the first page tells of a cyclist holding up traffic for fun on the coast rd

I saw that too, lol......Amazing that it happened just as this MP's meeting is announced on here and to the very guy who has a massive bee in his bonnet about cyclists/bike infra. He also has some pretty advanced tech on-board, e.g. automatic speed-control that ensures he never breaks any speed-limits, even by a couple of mph. Odd then, that a clued-up techy guy like him, never bothered to post his dashcam footage of the whole thing - because if it had happened, I'm sure he'd be falling over himself to put the recording of it on line.

Originally Posted by The PNP

I saw that too, lol......Amazing that it happened just as this MP's meeting is announced on here and to the very guy who has a massive bee in his bonnet about cyclists/bike infra. He also has some pretty advanced tech on-board, e.g. automatic speed-control that ensures he never breaks any speed-limits, even by a couple of mph. Odd then, that a clued-up techy guy like him, never bothered to post his dashcam footage of the whole thing - because if it had happened, I'm sure he'd be falling over himself to put the recording of it on line.

in replying to you, I admit that that I am breaking my own rule never to communicate with you again.
Firstly, I DON’T have “a massive bee in my bonnet” about either cyclists OR bike infrastructure. Even though I have no desire to cycle myself, I have no problem whatsoever with anyone who does, even old bigoted you. As for cycle lanes, where they are sensibly installed and used, again I have no problem with. However, with regards to the cycle lane on Queens Road, I have, on several previous occasions expressed my concern for the safety of cyclists, yes cyclists. The cycle lane itself is absolutely fine, the road itself is plenty wide enough to accommodate both a cycle lane, and vehicle lane wide enough for a bus or a lorry. The problem arises by restricting vehicular access to Queens Road to the side roads only. Traffic entering Queens Road from these side roads needs to “nose out” slightly before pulling out. THIS puts any cyclists who may be passing, in danger of being collided with.

Secondly, yes I do have my vehicle reasonably highly specked up, and yes I record my driving with a dashcam. I also, on occasions, when I witness incidents of dangerous driving upload the footage and send to the Police, as I am passionate about making our roads safer for EVERYONE to use. Unfortunately, yesterday, when the incident occurred on the Coast Road, I wasn’t driving my own vehicle, I was in a vehicle that I occasionally drive for a voluntary organisation, who, despite my requests, don’t want to fit dashcams to their vehicles.

Originally Posted by justbecause

in replying to you, I admit that that I am breaking my own rule never to communicate with you again.
Firstly, I DON’T have “a massive bee in my bonnet” about either cyclists OR bike infrastructure. Even though I have no desire to cycle myself, I have no problem whatsoever with anyone who does, even old bigoted you. As for cycle lanes, where they are sensibly installed and used, again I have no problem with. However, with regards to the cycle lane on Queens Road, I have, on several previous occasions expressed my concern for the safety of cyclists, yes cyclists. The cycle lane itself is absolutely fine, the road itself is plenty wide enough to accommodate both a cycle lane, and vehicle lane wide enough for a bus or a lorry. The problem arises by restricting vehicular access to Queens Road to the side roads only. Traffic entering Queens Road from these side roads needs to “nose out” slightly before pulling out. THIS puts any cyclists who may be passing, in danger of being collided with.

That has always been so, as it is on many roads. Which is why there are Give Way markings across side roads, to ensure cars don't shoot straight out and hit someone. I'm sure if a cyclist (or motorist) saw a cars 'nose' protruding into their path, they'd at the very least steer round it, or even brake if that was necessary.

Secondly, yes I do have my vehicle reasonably highly specked up, and yes I record my driving with a dashcam. I also, on occasions, when I witness incidents of dangerous driving upload the footage and send to the Police, as I am passionate about making our roads safer for EVERYONE to use. Unfortunately, yesterday, when the incident occurred on the Coast Road, I wasn’t driving my own vehicle, I was in a vehicle that I occasionally drive for a voluntary organisation, who, despite my requests, don’t want to fit dashcams to their vehicles.

Moral of the story, next time be sure to take your dash-cam with you, when you do Meals on Wheels?

Originally Posted by The PNP

. Tbh, I just don't get where you're coming from.

The dim and distant past.

Originally Posted by MICK/GILLY

“Not everyone on a bike has the confidence, sense, experience or degree of ability,“

Yes I can’t argue with this comment …and primary school kids should be able to ride on the pavement .

So how and when does the confidence to ride on the road suddenly arrive if their entire cycling experience has been on the pavement?

It’s not just happening as the meeting is announced it’s become the norm and that’s what sickens folk, it’s the disregard for the infrastructure however senseless it is and the attitude of those that purposely endanger themselves and others then moan, cry or become unsavoury when people state the obvious to them, you have to admit it’s not just a one off it’s everyone witnessing this in every journey even if it’s a drive to the shops and back because it’s the childish mentality of the hardcore cycle nutter, cycles have now generally become dangerous with people riding no handed and going through red lights not using lights and actively riding dangerously only to annoy other or main road users and this should be seen and dealt with as anti social behaviour akin to those that ride noisy trials bikes on parks or kids in gangs smashing glass bottles or fools that carry knives for no other reason than to put people in danger. I have already explained the dangers of vehicles that are willing to give way but have to be nosing out of side roads straight onto cycle lanes and it’s only a matter of time before people riding in such a way as to make this mode of transport an offensive weapon that can and will cause injury.

Originally Posted by salus.populi

So how and when does the confidence to ride on the road suddenly arrive if their entire cycling experience has been on the pavement?

As a child in days gone by in the dim and distant past when everything was black and white and it was safer to ride on the roads, in a time when cyclists were respectful of danger and other road users and were not deemed as inferior idiots and were taught to ride responsibly, carefully and without attitude. Today I have little confidence in letting a child ride on the road in this outdated manner and cringe every time I see some fool towing kids in a little trailer on the road. I see massive trucks whipping by overtaking little kids on main roads and it occurs to me it only takes one slip one second and that child is now only a memory a vase of flowers and a couple of balloons in the cemetery. However sometimes you do see normal cyclists that ride very carefully on the road keeping to the kerb while their young child enjoys riding alongside on the pavement.. all these things you see and it’s not just me . Kids and roads just don’t mix anymore ..

Originally Posted by MICK/GILLY

As a child in days gone by in the dim and distant past when everything was black and white and it was safer to ride on the roads, in a time when cyclists were respectful of danger and other road users and were not deemed as inferior idiots and were taught to ride responsibly, carefully and without attitude. Today I have little confidence in letting a child ride on the road in this outdated manner and cringe every time I see some fool towing kids in a little trailer on the road. I see massive trucks whipping by overtaking little kids on main roads and it occurs to me it only takes one slip one second and that child is now only a memory a vase of flowers and a couple of balloons in the cemetery. However sometimes you do see normal cyclists that ride very carefully on the road keeping to the kerb while their young child enjoys riding alongside on the pavement.. all these things you see and it’s not just me . Kids and roads just don’t mix anymore ..

Well, I reckon we've covered just about everything, from kids on bikes, to dodgy drivers and riders, to what to do and what not to do, etc. At end of day, as I'm sure you'll agree, it all comes down to getting home in one piece, without any mishaps along the way. So, a few pertinent points to round off with:

1. 'Keeping to the kerb' is a subject in itself. Bikes should normally be the standard 1m from the kerb, not riding in the middle of the road and not hugging the kerb either. Kerbhugging only encourages drivers to squeeze by too close, without waiting for a suitable gap in the oncoming traffic. It means riding over gullys (grids) and other defects near the kerbedge too, which can cause a fall - right in front of a fast-moving vehicle.

Whilst I myself normally ride 1m from kerb, I'm prepared to get closer to the kerb when circumstance dictate. E.g. on a narrow and/or twisty road, when I'll move to the left and encourage someone to pass me as-and-when it looks safe ahead for them to go by. Although you really shouldn't, I may even wave them through, which invariably goes down well and I will often receive a waved thank-you from the rearview, or a quick flash of the hazards in appreciation.

2. Following on from the first point. Drivers should leave minimum 1.5m clearance between bike and car. Unless the road is particularly wide, this means the car will be using the oncoming half of the road, just as it does when overtaking another car. The maths are: Bike (position of wheels) 1m from kerb, plus about .5m to account for right-hand half of rider and his/her elbows. 1.5m clearance to left wing-mirror of car. Tallied-up, this puts the nearside mirror of car at 3m (almost 10ft) from kerb.

3. Taking to the pavement. Yes, even I as a long-time cyclist do this sometimes. It is always there as an option (provided there actually is a pavement!), when conditions on-road become just too dangerous to continue. Police have been instructed by Govt to allow this at their discretion, when it's done out of 'fear of traffic' and 'with regard to other ( pavement) users'. The advice was issued to all Chief Constables back around 2000, when the fixed-penalty for riding on pavements was originally introduced.

4. In the long-term, we are moving (albeit in fits-and-starts) towards a future with safer cycling for all who choose to use a bike. This means traffic-calmed liveable neighbourhoods, that have low (20mph) bike-friendly speed limits. Along with separate safe provision on busier (30mph and above) routes. It's a shame that some people fight against these improvements, presumably in the rather selfish belief that a car journey is for some unknown reason, more important than a bike journey.

5. Let's not forget the Highway Code in all this, as it exists specifically to keep everyone safe when out and about. In particular the hierarchy of road users, which puts the most vulnerable (i.e.walkers and cyclists) where they should be - right at the top.

Originally Posted by The PNP

…If I did drop by the at Damians little affair, there'd be no point in it - as they'd soon chuck me and whoever else I had in tow out for heckling, lol!

Why would you want to heckle - the idea is to discuss …