Gaza, Hamas etc

[mumstheword]

Pkease can someone explain in very easy terms what is going on and who us to blame. I am so very confused by it all.

Thanks

[The PNP]

It's a l-o-n-g story, which dates from 1948, when the state of Israel was created/imposed on Palestine.

[Nick2]

It's a l-o-n-g story, which dates from 1948, when the state of Israel was created/imposed on Palestine.

I think you’ll find that an Israel existed many millennia before 1948. Your post is far too simplistic.

[The PNP]

I think you’ll find that an Israel existed many millennia before 1948. Your post is far too simplistic.

Like I said, it's a long story. But if you want to go back millennia, the first 'Zionists' were actually Egyptians, who invaded the area. They considered the place to be their 'promised land' - duh!

Fact is, the modern 'troubles' in Palestine/Israel, kicked off when boatload after boatload of would-be Zionists turned up, displacing the existing population against their will.

[silver fox]

Like I said, it's a long story. But if you want to go back millennia, the first 'Zionists' were actually Egyptians, who invaded the area. They considered the place to be their 'promised land' - duh!

Fact is, the modern 'troubles' in Palestine/Israel, kicked off when boatload after boatload of would-be Zionists turned up, displacing the existing population against their will.

Cobblers, the current conflict has it’s origins in the fact that the Arab/Muslim nations refused to accept the existence of Israel as a state, attempts by Arab nations to obliterate Israel didn’t go very well, over time a peace situation evolved with all but the militant Islamist element, don’t forget many of these militants are descended from militants evicted from Arab nations, who finally grew tired of the problems they created.

Does it never occur to you why both Jordan and Egypt will not take in Palestinians, bear in mind that originally the West Bank came under the control of Jordan and the Gaza Strip of Egypt.

As far as the current war is concerned, there is not the slightest doubt that Hamas attacked Israel, raped, murdered and kidnapped civilians, you can argue as to Israel’s response, but I find it hard to argue against their desire to eliminate Hamas, sadly because Hamas will not openly combat the IDF and hide among the civilian population, the civilians are bearing the brunt of Israel’s actions.

No-one wants the horrors of war to continue, but what do you suggest, you know very well that if Israel simply walks away the terrorists will simply regroup and it kicks off again.

No-one comes out of this squeaky clean, but the current fashion of casting Israel as the baddies is far from reality.

[The PNP]

Cobblers, the current conflict has it’s origins in the fact that the Arab/Muslim nations refused to accept the existence of Israel as a state, attempts by Arab nations to obliterate Israel didn’t go very well, over time a peace situation evolved with all but the militant Islamist element, don’t forget many of these militants are descended from militants evicted from Arab nations, who finally grew tired of the problems they created.

Does it never occur to you why both Jordan and Egypt will not take in Palestinians, bear in mind that originally the West Bank came under the control of Jordan and the Gaza Strip of Egypt.

As far as the current war is concerned, there is not the slightest doubt that Hamas attacked Israel, raped, murdered and kidnapped civilians, you can argue as to Israel’s response, but I find it hard to argue against their desire to eliminate Hamas, sadly because Hamas will not openly combat the IDF and hide among the civilian population, the civilians are bearing the brunt of Israel’s actions.

No-one wants the horrors of war to continue, but what do you suggest, you know very well that if Israel simply walks away the terrorists will simply regroup and it kicks off again.

No-one comes out of this squeaky clean, but the current fashion of casting Israel as the baddies is far from reality.

Of course the peoples of the region took exception to a new 'State' being established in their midst, why wouldn't they?

[silver fox]

Of course the peoples of the region took exception to a new 'State' being established in their midst, why wouldn't they?

When the British protectorate was dismantled, there was always going to be provision for a Jewish State as well as a number of Arab States, remember if you can that the population at the time was composed of Islamic, Jewish and Christian people, the Lebanon was at one time regarded as a predominantly Christian country, sadly it was taken over by militant Islamists who were evicted from Jordan, when Jordan became tired of the troublesome groups in their country.

All the states were new after being just one area under British rule, you see there has never at any time been a country under the name of Palestine, that was purely the name given to total area, or do you believe that a sector of the overall population, who have inhabited the area for centuries were no longer entitled to live there.

[The PNP]

When the British protectorate was dismantled, there was always going to be provision for a Jewish State as well as a number of Arab States, remember if you can that the population at the time was composed of Islamic, Jewish and Christian people, the Lebanon was at one time regarded as a predominantly Christian country, sadly it was taken over by militant Islamists who were evicted from Jordan, when Jordan became tired of the troublesome groups in their country.

All the states were new after being just one area under British rule, you see there has never at any time been a country under the name of Palestine, that was purely the name given to total area, or do you believe that a sector of the overall population, who have inhabited the area for centuries were no longer entitled to live there.

I mean there was resentment from the existing population of the area, as endless shiploads of people from elsewhere kept on coming. Ultimately taking over the place with a new name, language and flag.....You can see the beginnings of that happening right here in the UK. Outsiders of a different culture/religion, way of dressing etc, start to assert themselves.

[silver fox]

I mean there was resentment from the existing population of the area, as endless shiploads of people from elsewhere kept on coming. Ultimately taking over the place with a new name, language and flag.....You can see the beginnings of that happening right here in the UK. Outsiders of a different culture/religion, way of dressing etc, start to assert themselves.

There weren’t shiploads of people arriving, those who came to Israel were coming to their country, a country which had already been considerably reduced from the original proposed boundaries in an attempt to placate the Arab states, one ship did arrive and declared their right to be there, do you fondly imagine that newly arrived people were then almost immediately able to resist attacks from combined Arab states, strange though it may seem to you, there was already an established population in Israel.

[The PNP]

There weren’t shiploads of people arriving, those who came to Israel were coming to their country, a country which had already been considerably reduced from the original proposed boundaries in an attempt to placate the Arab states, one ship did arrive and declared their right to be there, do you fondly imagine that newly arrived people were then almost immediately able to resist attacks from combined Arab states, strange though it may seem to you, there was already an established population in Israel.

Ok then, shedloads began pouring in from abroad - same difference. I daresay, as refugees from war-torn Europe they might even have been welcomed at first. But as migrant numbers grew out of hand, there will have been an inevitable backlash. Same as the backlash that's growing here, against the endless influx of rubberboaters - people don't want them.

[silver fox]

Ok then, shedloads began pouring in from abroad - same difference. I daresay, as refugees from war-torn Europe they might even have been welcomed at first. But as migrant numbers grew out of hand, there will have been an inevitable backlash. Same as the backlash that's growing here, against the endless influx of rubberboaters - people don't want them.

Poor comparison, the Jewish people were going to join their own people in their own state, they weren’t foreign immigrants, there was no “inevitable backlash” the problem from the outset was simply that the Arab states would not accept that a good part of the existing population were entitled to any part of the area, the nearest comparison you could possibly make would be for us to deny the rights of Welsh, Scottish or NI citizens entry to England.

You appear to have a very strange thinking that Israel was created by immigration, the Jewish people have been indigenous to the area for centuries, what happened is simply that they along with the Arab states were given their own sovereign territory.

If you wish to play some sort of blame game, start with the British government, we should have imposed the borders, but at the time Britain wanted out of the troublesome territory and tried to satisfy everyone’s demands and finished up not satisfying anyone.

Our only excuse was simply after the war we were skint and simply had no wish to commit military or funds and wanted rid of the responsibility.

[The PNP]

Poor comparison, the Jewish people were going to join their own people in their own state, they weren’t foreign immigrants, there was no “inevitable backlash” the problem from the outset was simply that the Arab states would not accept that a good part of the existing population were entitled to any part of the area, the nearest comparison you could possibly make would be for us to deny the rights of Welsh, Scottish or NI citizens entry to England.

You appear to have a very strange thinking that Israel was created by immigration, the Jewish people have been indigenous to the area for centuries, what happened is simply that they along with the Arab states were given their own sovereign territory.

If you wish to play some sort of blame game, start with the British government, we should have imposed the borders, but at the time Britain wanted out of the troublesome territory and tried to satisfy everyone’s demands and finished up not satisfying anyone.

Our only excuse was simply after the war we were skint and simply had no wish to commit military or funds and wanted rid of the responsibility.

Same as here. Incomers fetch-up in areas where their 'own people' have established themselves: Birmingham, Bradford, Rochdale, etc, etc.

[said]

I think you’ll find that an Israel existed many millennia before 1948. Your post is far too simplistic.

May 14th 1948, Ben Gurion head of the Jewish Agency proclaimed the Establishment of the State of Israel recognised by the President of the USA.

[said]

Cobblers, the current conflict has it’s origins in the fact that the Arab/Muslim nations refused to accept the existence of Israel as a state, attempts by Arab nations to obliterate Israel didn’t go very well, over time a peace situation evolved with all but the militant Islamist element, don’t forget many of these militants are descended from militants evicted from Arab nations, who finally grew tired of the problems they created.

Does it never occur to you why both Jordan and Egypt will not take in Palestinians, bear in mind that originally the West Bank came under the control of Jordan and the Gaza Strip of Egypt.

As far as the current war is concerned, there is not the slightest doubt that Hamas attacked Israel, raped, murdered and kidnapped civilians, you can argue as to Israel’s response, but I find it hard to argue against their desire to eliminate Hamas, sadly because Hamas will not openly combat the IDF and hide among the civilian population, the civilians are bearing the brunt of Israel’s actions.

No-one wants the horrors of war to continue, but what do you suggest, you know very well that if Israel simply walks away the terrorists will simply regroup and it kicks off again.

No-one comes out of this squeaky clean, but the current fashion of casting Israel as the baddies is far from reality.

Not quite! In about 750 BC there were several Kings in succession, starting with Saul, tried to govern the region of Israel. but failed due to their greed and need of power. After the Kingdom failed, the northern regions were taken over by the Assyrians fought the Naphtali tribe, headed by Joshua in the North of Israel, won and took over the land. The Israelite people were placed under slavery.
Beersheeba - mentioned in the Old Testament is an area in South Israel where it appears Abraham (Father of the Jews) settled after the death of his son Isaac.
Around 550BC the Jewish people were exiled back to Babylon (Where Iraq is now) from their home in Jerusalem because the King of Judah, Jedekiah (Failed King) had refused to pay taxes to Babylon, so the Babylonians declared war and captured Jerusalem.
Palestine then was called Canaan, and it is the present day Palestinians who are more closely related to the ancient Canaans than the Jewish people.
In the 16th/17th century, after several battles in Canaan, there was a political call among the Jewish people to return to the land of their Father, Abraham, and to settle there. At the time there were several thousand Jewish people living in Israel alongside various other Arabic people.
In 1948, when the UK had management of Palestine it was agreed between the USA and the UK, for a state of Israel to be established in Palestine. The Arabs refused to attend the meeting.
Thousands of Jewish people from all over Europe moved into Palestine and settled there but as the numbers expanded they wanted more land and have been encroaching onto the agreed Palestinian territory.

[Alikado]

Poor comparison, the Jewish people were going to join their own people in their own state, they weren’t foreign immigrants, there was no “inevitable backlash” the problem from the outset was simply that the Arab states would not accept that a good part of the existing population were entitled to any part of the area, the nearest comparison you could possibly make would be for us to deny the rights of Welsh, Scottish or NI citizens entry to England.

You appear to have a very strange thinking that Israel was created by immigration, the Jewish people have been indigenous to the area for centuries, what happened is simply that they along with the Arab states were given their own sovereign territory.

If you wish to play some sort of blame game, start with the British government, we should have imposed the borders, but at the time Britain wanted out of the troublesome territory and tried to satisfy everyone’s demands and finished up not satisfying anyone.

Our only excuse was simply after the war we were skint and simply had no wish to commit military or funds and wanted rid of the responsibility.

Islam is a new religion just like Christianity, what religion were all the people in the Region before these religions were invented, they were probably Jewish.