LTN scrapped after three-mile bus journey took two hours.

[The PNP]

They are not inadequate, they are not wanted, why invent things?

How much better could the one down Formby By-Pass be, and its hardly used.

PNR is perfectly adequate and its hardly used, you don't need to be Bradley Wiggins to get past the odd parked car and if you struggle should you be on any road?

They are inadequate...but what else can we expect from 'local', our 'real cyclist' - Duh!

Fyi, PNR bike lanes are in places no wider than my handlebars - yet the HC tells us to ride 1m away from the kerb . They are no more than pathetic bike gutters. To be of any practical use, they need to be at least twice their present width!

Much better to get your exercise in amenity places.

PNR bike lanes are not intended for exercise, the coastal route is available for that purpose. PNR is supposed to be the main bike route for commuters, students and shoppers etc, to get into town......Would you be happy sending your kids to school along them?

[local]

They are inadequate...but what else can we expect from 'local', our 'real cyclist' - Duh!

Fyi, PNR bike lanes are in places no wider than my handlebars - they are no more than pathetic bike gutters. To be of any practical use, they need to be at least twice that!

PNR bike lanes are not intended for exercise, the coastal route is available for that purpose. PNR is supposed to be the main bike route for commuters, students and shoppers etc, to get into town......Would you be happy sending your kids to school along them?

They are not wanted in any size why invent things?

As I pointed out Formby By-Pass has new and unused cycle lanes that whatever their width are not wanted, couldn't get a better example.

Far better to get people out in much safer places.

Prove me wrong, rally your supporters and fill the lanes.

I would hazard a guess you won't.

£10 for greenpeace if you get 50?

[silver fox]

They are inadequate...but what else can we expect from 'local', our 'real cyclist' - Duh!

Fyi, PNR bike lanes are in places no wider than my handlebars - yet the HC tells us to ride 1m away from the kerb . They are no more than pathetic bike gutters. To be of any practical use, they need to be at least twice their present width!

PNR bike lanes are not intended for exercise, the coastal route is available for that purpose. PNR is supposed to be the main bike route for commuters, students and shoppers etc, to get into town......Would you be happy sending your kids to school along them?

Still on about cycle lanes on PNR? As the road is currently there is simply not space for cycle lanes, the idea which was put forward taking out one traffic lane each way at Churchtown lights, was so absurd that it should never have been proposed.

To put in place your concept of what is needed or acceptable would require a lot of infrastructure work and considerable expense, can you honestly say that the end result in any way, could possibly justify the work and the cost.

Your fantasy that these “cycle lanes” would suddenly throng with cyclists is a nonstarter, people use their cars from choice not due to fear of cycling, I ‘m sure you can always find some who would agree with your ideas, until it becomes a real choice, then people will undoubtedly vote with their feet, or should I say their cars.

[The PNP]

Still on about cycle lanes on PNR? As the road is currently there is simply not space for cycle lanes, the idea which was put forward taking out one traffic lane each way at Churchtown lights, was so absurd that it should never have been proposed.

To put in place your concept of what is needed or acceptable would require a lot of infrastructure work and considerable expense, can you honestly say that the end result in any way, could possibly justify the work and the cost.

Your fantasy that these “cycle lanes” would suddenly throng with cyclists is a nonstarter, people use their cars from choice not due to fear of cycling, I ‘m sure you can always find some who would agree with your ideas, until it becomes a real choice, then people will undoubtedly vote with their feet, or should I say their cars.

I did find someone who agreed, even before there were any bike lanes on PNR....I was chatting with a female shop worker on Eastbank St and I asked her how she got into town. She said she drove in each day down PNR. I asked if she'd considered cycling in. She said she wasn't happy about riding in that traffic.....

And of course she isn't alone in that. Because when asked, the number one reason motorists will give for not cycling, is fear of traffic. Take the Dutchman I did work for in Ainsdale. He had been a regular cyclist in NL, but hung up his saddle when he came to live here, due percieved risk of riding amongst our traffic.

And who can blame these people. Like I said to 'local': would you be happy letting you kids ride to school along PNR as it stands? St Cuthberts is just down the way. Yet anyone with a pupil there who lives towards the top of PNR, will feel compelled to do the school run in a car twice daily. When, if the road had safe infa, they could easily ride there with their kid/s on dry days.

[The PNP]

They are not wanted in any size why invent things?

See my above post...there's two people who want safe bike infra for a start, one at each end of town. Both feel they have no choice but to drive, but would cycle if they could. And if I were to ask everyone I meet, the answer will more often than not be the same that these two examples gave.

As I pointed out Formby By-Pass has new and unused cycle lanes that whatever their width are not wanted, couldn't get a better example.

Far better to get people out in much safer places.

Prove me wrong, rally your supporters and fill the lanes.

I would hazard a guess you won't.

£10 for greenpeace if you get 50?

Duh...How on earth does a new bike-path on the Formby bypass, help someone who lives up PNR or in Ainsdale, get safely into town?

Of course, it would have been a different story entirely by now, had a bunch of bolshy motorists not gone on-line and snookered Southport's intended North-South safe bike route!

[Stuartli]

Such as where?

As I said, it's not just between the two roads, but also the many blocks of residential flats, many for the elderly, on the other sides of both roads.

I'll say, yet again, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", especially those who have no tangible connection with the area and know little about day to day life there.

Why should hundreds of people have to be seriously inconvenienced for the sake of a few cyclists, many of whom we know don't take advantage of such facilities?

[silver fox]

I did find someone who agreed, even before there were any bike lanes on PNR....I was chatting with a female shop worker on Eastbank St and I asked her how she got into town. She said she drove in each day down PNR. I asked if she'd considered cycling in. She said she wasn't happy about riding in that traffic.....

And of course she isn't alone in that. Because when asked, the number one reason motorists will give for not cycling, is fear of traffic. Take the Dutchman I did work for in Ainsdale. He had been a regular cyclist in NL, but hung up his saddle when he came to live here, due percieved risk of riding amongst our traffic.

And who can blame these people. Like I said to 'local': would you be happy letting you kids ride to school along PNR as it stands? St Cuthberts is just down the way. Yet anyone with a pupil there who lives towards the top of PNR, will feel compelled to do the school run in a car twice daily. When, if the road had safe infa, they could easily ride there with their kid/s on dry days.

You found two people who allegedly would switch to a bike, multiply that by 20, still not significant numbers to justify that amount of disruption, work and expense.

Without being too simplistic, in harsh weather even those numbers would vanish and you know it, cycle lanes will only be effective if they are separated from the roads, with roads and cycle lanes unobstructed, as things stand this would require major infrastructure changes as well as major expenditure, this isn’t going to happen without very good reason, the whims of a few cycling devotees isn’t sufficient reason.

[The PNP]

You found two people who allegedly would switch to a bike, multiply that by 20, still not significant numbers to justify that amount of disruption, work and expense.

To illustrate the point, I gave two examples; one from each end of town. Try it yourself, by asking folk you meet why they don't cycle rather than drive for their shorter trips into/around town....Chances are, they'll look at you as if you're nuts - and say something like: 'what, risk my hide with a bike on these roads? No chance!'

Without being too simplistic, in harsh weather even those numbers would vanish and you know it, cycle lanes will only be effective if they are separated from the roads, with roads and cycle lanes unobstructed, as things stand this would require major infrastructure changes as well as major expenditure, this isn’t going to happen without very good reason, the whims of a few cycling devotees isn’t sufficient reason.

The funding was there - it fell from above in the form of a Govt grant, to create safe infra along PNR. Infra that even a child could use in safety. In the end and with time running out, it got spent in lieu on the Formby Bypass. Nice job, but would have got more users if it had been spent in town instead.

Bike infra is not about 'cycling devotees', far from it. Those guys will turn out every weekend anyway, going for long rides way out of town. Safe bike infra is all about Noman Normal and his Gal (and kids if they have any). Not everyone who drives, is a motoring devotee by a long chalk. For many, the car is simply a means to an end, to get them from A to B. As we see elsewhere time and again, whenever people are given practical travel alternatives, cycling numbers flourish.

[Alikado]

As I said, it's not just between the two roads, but also the many blocks of residential flats, many for the elderly, on the other sides of both roads.

I'll say, yet again, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", especially those who have no tangible connection with the area and know little about day to day life there.

Why should hundreds of people have to be seriously inconvenienced for the sake of a few cyclists, many of whom we know don't take advantage of such facilities?

Things are broke, it may only be small problems now but if things are left it will be too late to fix.

Again, where are these large residential blocks.

[The PNP]

Things are broke, it may only be small problems now but if things are left it will be too late to fix.

Agree, not least with regard to #Global Warming and #Sealevel-rise. We're fast running out of time, to curb our high-carbon ways.

Again, where are these large residential blocks.

Not sure, but I think Stu is on about several of the big old Victorian edifices, which have been converted into flats.

[silver fox]

To illustrate the point, I gave two examples; one from each end of town. Try it yourself, by asking folk you meet why they don't cycle rather than drive for their shorter trips into/around town....Chances are, they'll look at you as if you're nuts - and say something like: 'what, risk my hide with a bike on these roads? No chance!'

The funding was there - it fell from above in the form of a Govt grant, to create safe infra along PNR. Infra that even a child could use in safety. In the end and with time running out, it got spent in lieu on the Formby Bypass. Nice job, but would have got more users if it had been spent in town instead.

Bike infra is not about 'cycling devotees', far from it. Those guys will turn out every weekend anyway, going for long rides way out of town. Safe bike infra is all about Noman Normal and his Gal (and kids if they have any). Not everyone who drives, is a motoring devotee by a long chalk. For many, the car is simply a means to an end, to get them from A to B. As we see elsewhere time and again, whenever people are given practical travel alternatives, cycling numbers flourish.

You still can’t or won’t address the practical problem of where these cycle lanes are going to be put, don’t care how much funding you imagine to be available, where are you going to place cycle lanes on for instance PNR.

Taking space from that road is not possible, even the present lanes are infringed just passing the central bollards, there simply isn’t the room available and to repeat, that utterly crackpot idea of taking one lane each way at Churchtown lights is the thinking of an imbecile.

[The PNP]

You still can’t or won’t address the practical problem of where these cycle lanes are going to be put, don’t care how much funding you imagine to be available, where are you going to place cycle lanes on for instance PNR.

Taking space from that road is not possible, even the present lanes are infringed just passing the central bollards, there simply isn’t the room available and to repeat, that utterly crackpot idea of taking one lane each way at Churchtown lights is the thinking of an imbecile.

Knowing the area, you'll know how much space there is alongside PNR on the pavements/verges. Simple matter to hive off two feet from the pavement and two feet from the verge, which yields four feet for bike-paths. And no, you don't have to chop any trees down ether!

As for Churchtown lights, yes it was a rather odd arrangement they came up with. Fact is, there are wide areas of paving adjacent to the roadway. Parts of which could be used for bikes, without reducing the number of lanes for cars.

[local]

These lemon lanes have to be the most unused transport infrastructure projects in our town's history unless someone can prove otherwise?

Maybe the Park and Ride or Traveller camp at Kew gets a look in.

Is there a bigger failure?

It appears my tenner will go unclaimed I shall send it anyway.

[silver fox]

Knowing the area, you'll know how much space there is alongside PNR on the pavements/verges. Simple matter to hive off two feet from the pavement and two feet from the verge, which yields four feet for bike-paths. And no, you don't have to chop any trees down ether!

As for Churchtown lights, yes it was a rather odd arrangement they came up with. Fact is, there are wide areas of paving adjacent to the roadway. Parts of which could be used for bikes, without reducing the number of lanes for cars.

Probably the residents along PNR might have a somewhat different opinion to your solution.

Glad you accept that the idea as regards Churchtown lights is sheer stupidity,

[Stuartli]

Not sure, but I think Stu is on about several of the big old Victorian edifices, which have been converted into flats.

For someone who claims to do most of his travelling on a Penny Farthing you really aren't the most observant of individuals.

If you had been you would have noted the astonishing number of comparatively new blocks of apartments or courts, many aimed at those in retirement, all around the Hesketh Park area. Many of them contain 50 or more flats or apartments.

The Victorian examples are now more generally found along Albert Road.