LTN scrapped after three-mile bus journey took two hours.

[Stuartli]

Probably the residents along PNR might have a somewhat different opinion to your solution.

I know for a fact that they are generally very much against such further vandalism of what was once a beautiful route into the town.

No reason why cyclists can't use Balmoral Drive or Larkfield Lane to avoid PNR if necessary.

[The PNP]

Probably the residents along PNR might have a somewhat different opinion to your solution.

Maybe not....As things stand, less confident riders will be on the pavement anyway. Which means residents exiting their driveways, must anticipate bikes passing very close to their front gateways. At least with a bike-path four or five feet away, the driver is able to nose-out enough to see what's coming.

Glad you accept that the idea as regards Churchtown lights is sheer stupidity,

It's worth noting that the biggest delays for motor-traffic, usually occur at lights-junctions. Which is why whilst many Dutch roads may only have one lane each way, they fan out into two or three lanes each way at junctions. E.g. a left-turn lane, a straight-ahead lane and a right-turn lane.

UK traffic engineers know this and often now incorporate these features in schemes. E.g on Brooms Cross Rd, where you will find multiple lanes at lights-junctions. Yet they were going to do the exact opposite at Churchtown lights, reducing two lanes to one, most probably because it was the cheapest way to include bike infra.

Like I said in my previous post, the correct way to deal with that junction, is to use some of the adjacent pavement space for bikes instead. But that does mean digging-up and re-modelling of pavements, which takes longer to do and of course costs more....But like the old saying goes: if a job is worth doing - it's worth doing well!

[silver fox]

Maybe not....As things stand, less confident riders will be on the pavement anyway. Which means residents exiting their driveways, must anticipate bikes passing very close to their front gateways. At least with a bike-path four or five feet away, the driver is able to nose-out enough to see what's coming.

It's worth noting that the biggest delays for motor-traffic, usually occur at lights-junctions. Which is why whilst many Dutch roads may only have one lane each way, they fan out into two or three lanes each way at junctions. E.g. a left-turn lane, a straight-ahead lane and a right-turn lane.

UK traffic engineers know this and often now incorporate these features in schemes. E.g on Brooms Cross Rd, where you will find multiple lanes at lights-junctions. Yet they were going to do the exact opposite at Churchtown lights, reducing two lanes to one, most probably because it was the cheapest way to include bike infra.

Like I said in my previous post, the correct way to deal with that junction, is to use some of the adjacent pavement space for bikes instead. But that does mean digging-up and re-modelling of pavements, which takes longer to do and of course costs more....But like the old saying goes: if a job is worth doing - it's worth doing well!

You said it, the job simply isn’t worth doing.

[The PNP]

You said it, the job simply isn’t worth doing.

On the contrary. We're in a real fix re #Climate Change and falling increasingly behind, to reach our targets re CO2 emissions in the UK.

Bikes might not be everyone's thing, but they do offer an inexpensive solution, at least for the able-bodied. Which is why infra must be provided, to enable riders of all levels and abilities from eight to eighty, to get about in safety....Carrying on regardless with our old ways, as if the future will somehow take care of itself is no longer an option.

[horse]

On the contrary. We're in a real fix re #Climate Change and falling increasingly behind, to reach our targets re CO2 emissions in the UK.

Bikes might not be everyone's thing, but they do offer an inexpensive solution, at least for the able-bodied. Which is why infra must be provided, to enable riders of all levels and abilities from eight to eighty, to get about in safety....Carrying on regardless with our old ways, as if the future will somehow take care of itself is no longer an option.

Give it a bloody rest, we aren't interested in your constant whinging and bs anymore. One hand you want cycle lanes on the other cyclist don't want to use them as they have small stone or thorns in them and the rest don't want to use them as they can ride at 20mph until they get to traffic lights then just jump on the pavements. While the rest of us have to pay to learn how to drive, take a test, pay for insurance and mot plus the cost of our cars, then the high cost of fuel which we are forced to use more of as driving at a lower speed increases engine rpm and therefore exhaust emissions and forced to drive on roads which aren't fit for purpose.

[The PNP]

Give it a bloody rest, we aren't interested in your constant whinging and bs anymore. One hand you want cycle lanes on the other cyclist don't want to use them as they have small stone or thorns in them and the rest don't want to use them as they can ride at 20mph until they get to traffic lights then just jump on the pavements.

Largely a myth, put about by the anti-bike brigade. The everyday cyclists I see on Hoghton St, do make use of the new bike lanes. Don't believe me? Go and see for yourself.

While the rest of us have to pay to learn how to drive, take a test, pay for insurance and mot plus the cost of our cars, then the high cost of fuel which we are forced to use more of as driving at a lower speed increases engine rpm and therefore exhaust emissions and forced to drive on roads which aren't fit for purpose.

Fyi, bike infra is aimed at everyone, including motorists, because most people are motorists these days. The whole point is not to get sports riders off the road and onto bike paths....It's to make cycling safe for everyone who wants to. Do that and those who currently drive, will at least have a practical alternative to their car for all those trips around town.

[Stuartli]

Again, where are these large residential blocks.

I seriously think you need to visit an optician....

[local]

Largely a myth, put about by the anti-bike brigade. The everyday cyclists I see on Hoghton St, do make use of the new bike lanes. Don't believe me? Go and see for yourself.

Fyi, bike infra is aimed at everyone, including motorists, because most people are motorists these days. The whole point is not to get sports riders off the road and onto bike paths....It's to make cycling safe for everyone who wants to. Do that and those who currently drive, will at least have a practical alternative to their car for all those trips around town.

That's just blatant lies,

can I as a real-world cyclist distance myself from this fantasist, these lemon lanes are hardly used they are a waste of scarce resources.

We also have useless car facilities that are also a waste of money it doesn't make anyone anti-car to point out the truth.

[The PNP]

That's just blatant lies,

can I as a real-world cyclist distance myself from this fantasist, these lemon lanes are hardly used they are a waste of scarce resources.

We also have useless car facilities that are also a waste of money it doesn't make anyone anti-car to point out the truth.

Useless car facilities? Well, they'd be a whole lot less useful if they weren't connected to the rest of the road network! Which of course, is the case with the town's few isolated pieces of safe bike infra......tbh, considering people have to ride in traffic to get to it, I'm surprised so many actually use that infra!

I find it odd, that someone who claims to be a cyclist, would want our young people to have to be driven to-from school every day. Resulting in a generation who think that's normal - and who are growing up overweight as a result of lack of daily exercise. Not to mention the unnecessary CO2 and daily congestion all that driving generates.

[local]

Useless car facilities? Well, they'd be a whole lot less useful if they weren't connected to the rest of the road network! Which of course, is the case with the town's few isolated pieces of safe bike infra......tbh, considering people have to ride in traffic to get to it, I'm surprised so many actually use that infra!

I find it odd, that someone who claims to be a cyclist, would want our young people to have to be driven to-from school every day. Resulting in a generation who think that's normal - and who are growing up overweight as a result of lack of daily exercise. Not to mention the unnecessary CO2 and daily congestion all that driving generates.

For you to find me odd for telling the truth is a badge I wear with pride.

Bike lanes are failures around here and the lack of use demonstrates it, lying about their usage lowers support for real-world cyclists.

Children can get lots of great exercise elsewhere and if we weren't wasting millions on lemon lanes the money might be there for great facilities well away from traffic.

Imagine what we could have done with the money wasted around Southport thousands of children (and adults) could be enjoying themselves developing a lifelong fitness habit.

[justbecause]

For you to find me odd for telling the truth is a badge I wear with pride.

Bike lanes are failures around here and the lack of use demonstrates it, lying about their usage lowers support for real-world cyclists.

Children can get lots of great exercise elsewhere and if we weren't wasting millions on lemon lanes the money might be there for great facilities well away from traffic.

Imagine what we could have done with the money wasted around Southport thousands of children (and adults) could be enjoying themselves developing a lifelong fitness habit.

You have to appreciate that you’re conversing with someone who has no conception of what truth is, someone who simply makes things up as he goes along, often managing to change his “stories” in the same thread.

[The PNP]

For you to find me odd for telling the truth is a badge I wear with pride.

Bike lanes are failures around here and the lack of use demonstrates it, lying about their usage lowers support for real-world cyclists.

Do tell us, where did I lie about their usage?

Children can get lots of great exercise elsewhere and if we weren't wasting millions on lemon lanes the money might be there for great facilities well away from traffic.

So your plan for the nations kids is what? Drive every child to/from school, then drive them to the gym each day after school, so they can ride a static exercise bike for thirty minutes? I have to admire your er, logic!

[silver fox]

Do tell us, where did I lie about their usage?

So your plan for the nations kids is what? Drive every child to/from school, then drive them to the gym each day after school, so they can ride a static exercise bike for thirty minutes? I have to admire your er, logic!

When are you going to realise, the bike as a very small part to play as far as transport is concerned, your fantasy land where the bike plays a major role in transportation, health and fitness, climate change, and the environment is simply not an answer to anything, sure there may be a slow movement away from ICE power, but it won’t be the demise of motorised transport if only for practical reasons.

Another aspect you clearly don’t even consider, the Exchequer draws a lot of funding through the motor industry and users, do you seriously believe that any government would give up that revenue source?

[The PNP]

When are you going to realise, the bike as a very small part to play as far as transport is concerned, your fantasy land where the bike plays a major role in transportation, health and fitness, climate change, and the environment is simply not an answer to anything, sure there may be a slow movement away from ICE power, but it won’t be the demise of motorised transport if only for practical reasons.

Another aspect you clearly don’t even consider, the Exchequer draws a lot of funding through the motor industry and users, do you seriously believe that any government would give up that revenue source?

True to say, since the '60 when cars mushroomed, the bike never played much of a part in personal transportation, until it got its second wind around 2012 and the London Olympics. Since then, if only where the infra has been available, the bike really has gone from strength to strength in parts of the UK.

And you're right about the Chancellor losing out. Bikes are relatively cheap and use no fuel, etc.....All the more reason to get one, lol!