Boeing

[Nick2]

I would not consider Airbus being any better:
In July 2023, Pratt & Whitney announced that it had found a rare metal defect in its GTX engines from 2015-2020 that could potentially cause cracks in the engine components. Around 600 to 700 of the A320neo aircraft with its engines would have to be grounded between 2023 and 2026 for inspections.9 Jan 2024

As of January 2024, 180 aviation accidents and incidents have occurred, including 38 hull loss accidents, and a total of 1505 fatalities in 17 fatal accidents.

In 2023 almost 35million passengers travelled somewhere by air. Statistically then, it would seem that you’d be safer in an aircraft than driving your car, or even walking along a footpath in town.
That doesn’t include the many 1000s of tons of freight delivered safely to all corners of the world annually.

[Alikado]

I would not consider Airbus being any better:
In July 2023, Pratt & Whitney announced that it had found a rare metal defect in its GTX engines from 2015-2020 that could potentially cause cracks in the engine components. Around 600 to 700 of the A320neo aircraft with its engines would have to be grounded between 2023 and 2026 for inspections.9 Jan 2024

As of January 2024, 180 aviation accidents and incidents have occurred, including 38 hull loss accidents, and a total of 1505 fatalities in 17 fatal accidents.

.... and not a single one attributed to engine failure!

[bensherman]

I would not consider Airbus being any better:
In July 2023, Pratt & Whitney announced that it had found a rare metal defect in its GTX engines from 2015-2020 that could potentially cause cracks in the engine components. Around 600 to 700 of the A320neo aircraft with its engines would have to be grounded between 2023 and 2026 for inspections.9 Jan 2024

As of January 2024, 180 aviation accidents and incidents have occurred, including 38 hull loss accidents, and a total of 1505 fatalities in 17 fatal accidents.

Not quite the same.
Engines are always produced by another manufacturer and airlines usually have a choice from several.
The problems with Boeing have related to onboard software and assembly of the airframe.

[The PNP]

In 2023 almost 35million passengers travelled somewhere by air. Statistically then, it would seem that you’d be safer in an aircraft than driving your car, or even walking along a footpath in town.
That doesn’t include the many 1000s of tons of freight delivered safely to all corners of the world annually.

Had a feeling someone might say that. Whilst it may be true on a mile-for-mile basis, it may not be so on an hour-for-hour basis.

When it comes to feeling safe flying, I for one will take some convincing. Take losing forward-motion as an example. Have that happen in the air for whatever reason and you're a dead duck. With other means of transport however, you very probably survive....

E.g. I've been in motor vehicles that have 'stalled' and ended up immobile at the roadside, no probs re personal survival. Same with trains, on one occasion evacuated onto the track due a brake fire. Even been adrift mid-Atlantic on a 'dead' ship, whilst the engineers worked on the engine. On each occasion, I made it home safe and sound.

[Nick2]

Had a feeling someone might say that. Whilst it may be true on a mile-for-mile basis, it may not be so on an hour-for-hour basis.

When it comes to feeling safe flying, I for one will take some convincing. Take losing forward-motion as an example. Have that happen in the air for whatever reason and you're a dead duck. With other means of transport however, you very probably survive....

E.g. I've been in motor vehicles that have 'stalled' and ended up immobile at the roadside, no probs re personal survival. Same with trains, on one occasion evacuated onto the track due a brake fire. Even been adrift mid-Atlantic on a 'dead' ship, whilst the engineers worked on the engine. On each occasion, I made it home safe and sound.

In total, there were 30 accidents from commercial operations worldwide in 2023 versus 42 accidents in 2022. This was ahead of the five-year average of 38. One fatal accident occurred in 2023 that resulted in 72 fatalities, this was down from five in 2022 which caused 158 deaths.

This is compared with 1.19 million road deaths worldwide, each year. I know where I feel safer.

[bensherman]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68656925

[Kritou]

If you've got Sky, you might want to watch the recent 'Last Week Tonight' episode where John Oliver investigates Boeing.

It makes grim watching. Though he presents it in an amusing way, it is absolutely terrifying.

When Boeing expanded it started contracting out most production of parts. Those contractors contracted out further, parts were made with no oversight, no checks, no safety standards. When the planes were put together with all these separate parts, many didn't fit.

There's a particular feature of one part that sent planes into a nose dive that the pilots couldn't pull out of. The planes were grounded for a while.

Their own engineers won't fly on the 737 Max.

Apparently on certain flight booking websites, one feature is a choice of plane. Few check 'Boeing'. After watching that, I'll avoid them in future.

Journalists who write about aviation themes are all too often looking for attention grabbing headlines to satiate their readers. Having been terrified one might assume that you too will not step aboard certain Boeing aircraft in the near future? (late type substitutions are quite normal in the aviation world)

The MCAS problem was a software/customer option issue compounded by Boeing’s failure to properly document it’s existence in training manuals - the ‘nose dive’ could certainly be avoided with proper appreciation of the stabiliser cutoff procedure (that the first Lion Air crew correctly utilised)

I’m fascinated to hear that for some flights I can not only make a booking but choose the aircraft type I wish to fly on - thank you

I presume you have polled the Boeing engineers to determine precisely which version of the 737 Max they will not fly on - is that journalistic licence or guesswork?

Certainly Boeing have big problems that need immediate addressing but loose lips and uninformed comment are sadly part of the insane world we live in

[The PNP]

^While that well may be so. When the doors start falling off, it's time to start worrying!

[local]

Doors falling off whilst unwanted are very sortable someone somewhere didn't fix them properly.

Compared to say software faults deep in the system or intermittent cumalative component or material malfunctions under certain conditions.


Apparently it was as simple as four missing bolts for the door "plug"

[The PNP]

Doors falling off whilst unwanted are very sortable someone somewhere didn't fix them properly.

Compared to say software faults deep in the system, or intermittent cumulative component or material malfunctions under certain conditions.


Apparently, it was as simple as four missing bolts for the door "plug"

That's my point...If they can't get something as simple as that right, what hope is there for the more complex stuff?

N.B. Let's hope they don't entrust the bolting on of the wings to the same bloke!

[Alikado]

Doors falling off whilst unwanted are very sortable someone somewhere didn't fix them properly.

Compared to say software faults deep in the system or intermittent cumalative component or material malfunctions under certain conditions.


Apparently it was as simple as four missing bolts for the door "plug"

4 missing bolts is probably more serious, a software fault can still be present no matter how rigorous the testing - not every single situation can be tested but a missing bolt can be just a manufacturing error which should have been picked up by quality control inspectors but all 4 bolts missing indicates something a lot more serious within manufacturing, quality control and right up through the company to the very top.

[local]

Far from it with the best-designed machine in the world an employee not doing their job properly as seems to be the case after it was removed to fix damaged rivets is not in the same league as fundamental design flaws.

Apparently, there is a picture of the missing bolts;


https://www.airport-technology.com/n...missing-bolts/

It would appear the all conquering Red Bull F1 team had a human caliper fixing failure that led to the brake fire that put their driver out after 3 laps.

How many have misfuelled their cars and found it spluttering on the motorway.

[Alikado]

Far from it with the best-designed machine in the world an employee not doing their job properly as seems to be the case after it was removed to fix damaged rivets is not in the same league as fundamental design flaws.

Apparently, there is a picture of the missing bolts;


https://www.airport-technology.com/n...missing-bolts/

It would appear the all conquering Red Bull F1 team had a human caliper fixing failure that led to the brake fire that put their driver out after 3 laps.

How many have misfuelled their cars and found it spluttering on the motorway.

The missing bolts were not down to a single employee not doing their job properly if that was the case it would have been picked up by quality control which has also been found lacking, when checks were made on other aircraft bolts were also found missing and loose, this indicates system failures in the manufacturing and inspection regime within the company going right up through the company to the top.
How many other faults are to be found in all the aircraft they have manufactured, they have only looked at thing on one model.

[Toodles McGinty]

Journalists who write about aviation themes are all too often looking for attention grabbing headlines to satiate their readers. Having been terrified one might assume that you too will not step aboard certain Boeing aircraft in the near future? (late type substitutions are quite normal in the aviation world)

I can only suggest you watch the programme and offer your opinion regarding the accuracy of the journalism.

It was pretty damning stuff. No doubt scrutinised by a raft of lawyers before broadcast.

[bensherman]

I have recently been viewing flights and haven't come across options to use the type of plane. I can imagine that doing that would cause airlines enormous problems.

Skyscanner, for example, doesn't seem to be showing that.

Trying to avoid Boeing aircraft would massively reduce where you could fly to.

This is complex as while there may have been failures in the Boeing manufacturing system, continuing maintenance is conducted by the airlines themselves, or contractors where they don't have an engineering base. The plane manufacturers have to ensure that every one in that quite complex system is working properly and adequately supervised, and it's fair to say they have done that pretty well for decades.

Ironically one outcome of this is that the experience of flying in the future will probably be even safer for all of us.