If only we had cycle lanes in town.

[The PNP]

If you think Chapel street is thriving to the extent you believe, then you need to visit more.

I do visit the street, have done for many years, with Wilco's in particular being a long-time regular destination (it's a shame they had to go). It's also a regular route when on the bike, to access locations to its South. There always seems to be plenty of footfall when I pass through; not surprising really, as it's so much safer without the traffic and doesn't stink of car exhausts either.

Lord Street is a key section of the A565 and any form of pedestrianisation would prove a death knell in a comparatively short time for businesses.

Yes, it is the A565. More's the pity, as that pesky through-traffic appears to be a factor in the streets diminished popularity. Now, if all that unwanted traffic contained shoppers who wanted to get out and buy stuff, the story woud be very different!

[Stuartli]

I do visit the street, have done for many years, with Wilco's in particular being a long-time regular destination (it's a shame they had to go). It's also a regular route when on the bike, to access locations to its South. There always seems to be plenty of footfall when I pass through; not surprising really, as it's so much safer without the traffic and doesn't stink of car exhausts either.

Yes, it is the A565. More's the pity, as that pesky through-traffic appears to be a factor in the streets diminished popularity. Now, if all that unwanted traffic contained shoppers who wanted to get out and buy stuff, the story woud be very different!

Yet again you demonstrate that you are frankly just not fit for purpose.

[Alikado]

If you think Chapel street is thriving to the extent you believe, then you need to visit more.

It's been many years since it enjoyed such success, with the 2006 pedestrianisation almost destroying it for nearly 10 to 12 years afterwards.

Lord Street is a key section of the A565 and any form of pedestrianisation would prove a death knell in a comparatively short time for businesses.

Then why is Lord St full of empty shops and Chapel St isn't?

[Alikado]

You would kill a considerable section of the town's public transport services for a start as a brief study of the routes would demonstrate, for a start.

People are not going to patronise retail and hospitality venues, especially in winter, if they are required to face extended distances from reaching or using public or private transport.

You don't have to get rid of buses just Private cars.

[The PNP]

Yet again you demonstrate that you are frankly just not fit for purpose.

Neither is a shopping area dissected by constant through-traffic, when the main function should be to entice shoppers in, by providing a safe, high-quality shopping environment .

[Ric]

Neither is a shopping area dissected by constant through-traffic, when the main function should be to entice shoppers in, by providing a safe, high-quality shopping environment .

It would be safe if there weren't cyclists on the pavement.

[The PNP]

It would be safe if there weren't cyclists on the pavement.

Nah, people will always be at risk from motor traffic, no matter how careful they are....

Just one sad example from some years ago: Father and son visitors to the town, needed to get across Lord St outside the POW. They attempted to cross at the pelican crossing there, having patiently waited for the green man to light. For some reason, a male drove his car straight through them on the crossing at 28mph, killing the son.


As for cycling on the pavement along Lord St. My solution would be:

1) Make the street 20mph.

2) To restrict motor vehicle access to busses, taxis and delivery vehicles, between the 'Brick and the Monument.

3) To provide a kerb-protected bike-path along each side of the remainder of the street.

Do this and there would be no excuse for riding on the pavement. It would also increase safety for all concerned, whether on foot, bike, bus, or car.

[Stuartli]

You don't have to get rid of buses just Private cars.

Then it wouldn't be pedestrianised...

Apart from losing potential shoppers who would have come in private vehicles.

By the way, Lord Street and one or two other roads feature some of the widest pavements in the town centre.

[Stuartli]

Just one sad example from some years ago: Father and son visitors to the town, needed to get across Lord St outside the POW. They attempted to cross at the pelican crossing there, having patiently waited for the green man to light. For some reason, a male drove his car straight through them on the crossing at 28mph, killing the son.

That has little or no relevance to the subject and could have occurred anywhere.

More obfuscation on your part.

[The PNP]

That has little or no relevance to the subject and could have occurred anywhere.

More obfuscation on your part.

We're talking about bikes on pavements in a shopping area, in other words about the safety of shoppers. Surely, those shoppers should also be safe when moving from one side of that shopping street to the other? Imo, safety of shoppers doesn't stop at the kerb-edge. In a shopping area, safety applies the whole time they are there, regardless where they happen to be within that area.

[Stuartli]

We're talking about bikes on pavements in a shopping area, in other words about the safety of shoppers. Surely, those shoppers should also be safe when moving from one side of that shopping street to the other? Imo, safety of shoppers doesn't stop at the kerb-edge. In a shopping area, safety applies the whole time they are there, regardless where they happen to be within that area.

As I said, it has little or no relevance to the particular thread.

The type of situation you conveniently recalled could and has happened in thousands of streets and roads over many decades all over the UK and the rest of the world.

I've seen cyclists on the pavements in Lord Street many times - it's up to the police to put a stop to it.

[The PNP]

As I said, it has little or no relevance to the particular thread.

The type of situation you conveniently recalled could and has happened in thousands of streets and roads over many decades all over the UK and the rest of the world.

True, it's largely taken for granted that road deaths of peds are a fact of life. I would however argue, that getting fatally squished when you're on a crossing and have a green man is really not on. As I would also argue, that losing your life to the car in a shopping area, is entirely avoidable....Simply by getting rid of the cause: 30mph traffic.

I've seen cyclists on the pavements in Lord Street many times - it's up to the police to put a stop to it.

Maybe so. But when it comes to the crunch, sometimes riders feel it's better to risk a small fine than put their lives on the line amongst all that traffic. Now, if there were protected bike infra along both sides....

[Alikado]

True, it's largely taken for granted that road deaths of peds are a fact of life. I would however argue, that getting fatally squished when you're on a crossing and have a green man is really not on. As I would also argue, that losing your life to the car in a shopping area, is entirely avoidable....Simply by getting rid of the cause: 30mph traffic.

Maybe so. But when it comes to the crunch, sometimes riders feel it's better to risk a small fine than put their lives on the line amongst all that traffic. Now, if there were protected bike infra along both sides....

And it could be made even safer by making the mobility scooters use it as well.

[The PNP]

And it could be made even safer by making the mobility scooters use it as well.

I'm sure many of them would, as it enables them to get a move on and avoids having to continually swerve around dozy peds, etc.

[Stuartli]

True, it's largely taken for granted that road deaths of peds are a fact of life. I would however argue, that getting fatally squished when you're on a crossing and have a green man is really not on. As I would also argue, that losing your life to the car in a shopping area, is entirely avoidable....Simply by getting rid of the cause: 30mph traffic.

The speed in the case you recalled was almost certainly irrelevant as it was more than likely that the cause was lack of concentration by the driver concerned, as he was driving under the speed limit.

Your delusional fixation with believing that drivers continually exceed the speed limit (and you've confessed to being as guilty as anyone) means you are unable to take a logical and reasoned viewpoint.

That includes your fantasy that cyclists and pedestrians never make any mistakes or can be held responsible for accidents themselves.