Cyclists v Red Lights

[Stuartli]

No, I probably couldn't do the run much faster, even on a good day.....But this is not about 'the run', it's about door-to-door transport, based on the average motorist who shops in town and lives out Norwood way. The point being, to demonstrate a trip in by bike delivers you to your destination as quickly, if not quicker than a car - which it is.

If you couldn't achieve that over such a short distance and such convenient rules in your favour, then you'd look even more foolish than you do for most of the time....

[MICK/GILLY]

If you couldn't achieve that over such a short distance and such convenient rules in your favour, then you'd look even more foolish than you do for most of the time....

Maybe it would be more fair from the plough to Asda where the parking is right next to the bike racks at the front door or from Norwood rd to Andy’s cafe or the top of Parbold hill in training for the flood to come.

I wonder what time he will pick tomorrow and why would he think I wouldn’t turn up or cheat.
If I lose.. I lose ha ha

[The PNP]

I can meet you anytime tomorrow afternoon after 5 pm or early morning if I must get up early phh, and who is to say you won’t go over 20 mph or through red lights, and who says the route you must take? When did that become a rule? The average person or local might go any way they choose or park where they like . And why would I cheat?

From Norwood rd / Roe lane lights to river island it is then first one to the door, no speeding no red light running only these rules unless you want to make some more up.
If you are so sure you will win fairly you can bet £50 if you like to a charity of the choice of Q voters . Maybe you can get an admin to follow on or sit in with me I don’t mind.
I already know how long it will take me .. do you?
I don’t mind losing or being wrong or losing £50 to a good cause or even getting you to send £50, I get little excitement and don’t normally gamble so it might be a nice change.
I think early morning would be better for me but I am getting fat and lazy with being a motorist even so I think I could win this in my sleep, even if you do get your mates to take up the disabled bays .
I don’t need to cheat because if I lose I can handle losing.
Let me know what time to be there …and bring £50

It's about doing everything legally.....Don't forget, bikes are legally not subject to speed-limits. Also don't forget that bikes can legally be pushed round corners on the pavement to bypass red lights and pushed across junctions on a green man, to bypass red lights. They can also legally 'filter' past static and slow-moving traffic queues. And bikes can also be ridden and 'parked' legally in Chapel St.....A car can do none of those things legally.

Sundays however, are not representative of a typical shopping day.... I'll happily take you up on a day when the shops are open and I don't have to work, which points to next Saturday.

[The PNP]

If you couldn't achieve that over such a short distance and such convenient rules in your favour, then you'd look even more foolish than you do for most of the time....

Fyi, I've clocked myself at 28mph in a sprint, but certainly can't sustain it over any distance.

[MICK/GILLY]

Ha ha I don’t mind if you ride through red lights like normal cyclists do or run across the road like a child with your bike or you can ride on the pavement all the way there if you like and you are saying Saturday because you think the disabled bays will be full on a Saturday well they weren't today at 16.35 or 18.20 and even if they are I will find parking.
Well if you are going to play legally it’s not considered speeding at 10% over the limit or for less than 2/10ths of a mile but I’ll stick to 20 mph on 20 mph roads cos I don’t want you to cry and squirm any more than you have already started to.
So you want to have it in a place where I will find it hard to park on the busiest day of the week and to end where cars are not allowed and a disabled guy will have to struggle with oxygen as he can’t walk far or breath properly.

…. Not very confident are you. Lots of people in town tomorrow and plenty of places open
Why don’t you just do it tomorrow and stop being a baby and stand by your words .

[MICK/GILLY]

It's about doing everything legally.....Don't forget, bikes are legally not subject to speed-limits. Also don't forget that bikes can legally be pushed round corners on the pavement to bypass red lights and pushed across junctions on a green man, to bypass red lights. They can also legally 'filter' past static and slow-moving traffic queues. And bikes can also be ridden and 'parked' legally in Chapel St.....A car can do none of those things legally.

Sundays however, are not representative of a typical shopping day.... I'll happily take you up on a day when the shops are open and I don't have to work, which points to next Saturday.

Ok you want to play legally I get that but there are things I can do legally in my car ON A NORMAL SHOPPING DAY that I ( and many others ) would do and normally do if I was to go shopping at River island ( I wouldn’t shop in town normally ) you haven’t thought about yet and wouldn’t occur to you until it’s too late and if I play this card you haven’t got even a hope. It’s normal car stuff for motorists especially disabled ones but non the less any motorist can and does do this, it’s not unfair either …it’s normal like bikes running lights ( but legal ) or hopping off and waiking across lights or as legal as riding on the pavements or going at any speed on a bike .
I think this card will kill any chance you have and it’s fair so you won’t be able to cry about it
If you guess it I’ll tell you what it is but if you cant I’ll save it for a surprise ha ha ..

[The PNP]

Ha ha I don’t mind if you ride through red lights like normal cyclists do or run across the road like a child with your bike or you can ride on the pavement all the way there if you like and you are saying Saturday because you think the disabled bays will be full on a Saturday well they weren't today at 16.35 or 18.20 and even if they are I will find parking.
Well if you are going to play legally it’s not considered speeding at 10% over the limit or for less than 2/10ths of a mile but I’ll stick to 20 mph on 20 mph roads cos I don’t want you to cry and squirm any more than you have already started to.
So you want to have it in a place where I will find it hard to park on the busiest day of the week and to end where cars are not allowed and a disabled guy will have to struggle with oxygen as he can’t walk far or breath properly.

…. Not very confident are you. Lots of people in town tomorrow and plenty of places open
Why don’t you just do it tomorrow and stop being a baby and stand by your words .

It's simply the same challenge I offered Stu several years ago, which is why it starts at what was his end of town at the time. If I wanted to design a route that specifically favoured bikes, there are far better ones. E.g. from one end of Lord St to the other on a busy day, lol!

[MICK/GILLY]

It's simply the same challenge I offered Stu several years ago, which is why it starts at what was his end of town at the time. If I wanted to design a route that specifically favoured bikes, there are far better ones. E.g. from one end of Lord St to the other on a busy day, lol!

Why do you think stu would take the most difficult way into town through all the lights as a motorist? And why would you is it because it favours you in a race or do you think because of cycle lanes and being able to zip through lights suits everyone.
Like I said there’s not much congestion in Southport that doesn't clear quick enough and I certainly wouldn’t choose a path in a legal fair race that tied me up nor would I on a normal shopping day, we are trying to keep it normal aren't we like you are only available on the busiest day probably at the busiest time through all the lights you can find with not much chance of parking and with someone that can’t walk fast if they do manage to park you are not tilting it towards you winning are you?
From A to B is ok and not really how a NORMAL shopping day goes not from A through an assault course that’s bent towards you to B where you can’t park so you win all ways … I mean you are not trying that on are you? Not scratting is it? Should I wear a blindfold for this, or tie my hands together ?

I suggest as you say it should be normal, legal and representative of a busy shopping day and all that cyclists would choose and all that’s available to motorists with no cheating no speeding no jumping lights just a car against ha ha a bicycle .. I would say and carrying shopping but I don’t want to beat you too much and embarrass you more than … well .

There is however one major thing that’s a massive advantage in my favour apart from staying warm and dry that hasn’t dawned on you yet regarding motorists and cyclists and this issue that you have overlooked, its quite comical really.
If anyone guesses it I will say it but if no one does it will be a nice surprise.
A nice normal, fair, legal surprise that outlines the joy of motoring over the joy of cycling in this context, a game changer, a winning card .

[The PNP]

Why do you think stu would take the most difficult way into town through all the lights as a motorist? And why would you is it because it favours you in a race or do you think because of cycle lanes and being able to zip through lights suits everyone.
Like I said there’s not much congestion in Southport that doesn't clear quick enough and I certainly wouldn’t choose a path in a legal fair race that tied me up nor would I on a normal shopping day, we are trying to keep it normal aren't we like you are only available on the busiest day probably at the busiest time through all the lights you can find with not much chance of parking and with someone that can’t walk fast if they do manage to park you are not tilting it towards you winning are you?
From A to B is ok and not really how a NORMAL shopping day goes not from A through an assault course that’s bent towards you to B where you can’t park so you win all ways … I mean you are not trying that on are you? Not scratting is it? Should I wear a blindfold for this, or tie my hands together ?

I suggest as you say it should be normal, legal and representative of a busy shopping day and all that cyclists would choose and all that’s available to motorists with no cheating no speeding no jumping lights just a car against ha ha a bicycle .. I would say and carrying shopping but I don’t want to beat you too much and embarrass you more than … well .

There is however one major thing that’s a massive advantage in my favour apart from staying warm and dry that hasn’t dawned on you yet regarding motorists and cyclists and this issue that you have overlooked, its quite comical really.
If anyone guesses it I will say it but if no one does it will be a nice surprise.
A nice normal, fair, legal surprise that outlines the joy of motoring over the joy of cycling in this context, a game changer, a winning card .

Stu could have gone any way he liked, but I'd have ridden straight down Manchester Rd and turned left into Hoghton St. Why? Because it was by far the quickest way to River Island, from Stu's vicinity. Btw, there were no cycle-lanes on Hoghton St at that time and no green man buttons at Hoghton St/Manchester Rd lights. Chapel St was also subject to a ''no cycling' ban.

[Stuartli]

Stu could have gone any way he liked, but I'd have ridden straight down Manchester Rd and turned left into Hoghton St. Why? Because it was by far the quickest way to River Island, from Stu's vicinity. Btw, there were no cycle-lanes on Hoghton St at that time and no green man buttons at Hoghton St/Manchester Rd lights. Chapel St was also subject to a ''no cycling' ban.

It isn't my vicinity.

[The PNP]

It isn't my vicinity.

Back then it was, Stu.

[MICK/GILLY]

Also if you wanted to keep it real and like a normal shopping trip why would you race there trying to achieve 28 mph? That is fast even for a professional racer superhero cyclist Div and not far off the average speed in the Tour de France.
Pedalling fast for a normal cyclist going shopping is 10 mph ( source Google ) thats half the speed I can reach in a second.
So I must amble there like a normal average day, get tied up with all sorts of traffic and lights, struggle to park and crawl to the finish line while you plan on racing there ( not like a normal day ) and bursting into the pedestrian area probably throwing your arms up as you dodge the Saturday crowds.
But what you haven’t planned for with your one sided fantastic and bias plan ALL TILTED TOWARDS YOU is I will be sat there on a bench waiting for you not sweaty, legally parked and able to shop and carry probably 50 large heavy bags AND you AND your bike, home….. in the rain ! ( but I wouldn’t want a sweaty man and a dirty old bike or vice Vera in my one month old 24 plate highest of breeds car )
But I won’t speed or go through any lights and my priority in this is safety and I will easily win just like a normal day as a motorist going shopping.
HOW CONFIDENT ARE YOU PNP ? Let me know if you want to take up that £50 charity bet that I proposed -
Like I say sometimes I can be wrong and you might get lucky and win

[The PNP]

Also if you wanted to keep it real and like a normal shopping trip why would you race there trying to achieve 28 mph? That is fast even for a professional racer superhero cyclist Div and not far off the average speed in the Tour de France.
Pedalling fast for a normal cyclist going shopping is 10 mph ( source Google ) thats half the speed I can reach in a second.
So I must amble there like a normal average day, get tied up with all sorts of traffic and lights, struggle to park and crawl to the finish line while you plan on racing there ( not like a normal day ) and bursting into the pedestrian area probably throwing your arms up as you dodge the Saturday crowds.
But what you haven’t planned for with your one sided fantastic and bias plan ALL TILTED TOWARDS YOU is I will be sat there on a bench waiting for you not sweaty, legally parked and able to shop and carry probably 50 large heavy bags AND you AND your bike, home….. in the rain ! ( but I wouldn’t want a sweaty man and a dirty old bike or vice Vera in my one month old 24 plate highest of breeds car )
But I won’t speed or go through any lights and my priority in this is safety and I will easily win just like a normal day as a motorist going shopping.
HOW CONFIDENT ARE YOU PNP ? Let me know if you want to take up that £50 charity bet that I proposed -
Like I say sometimes I can be wrong and you might get lucky and win

The average everyday shopper, pedals at about 9mph. I myself like to press on a bit and aim for 12mph. Whilst amateur 'sports riders' go upwards of 15mph, to occasionally double that on a very good day with a following wind.

I'm guessing you've put on quite some weight since we last met, what with taking home 50bags of shopping and all. Myself, I rarely need to bring back more than two full carriers, plus my own personal bag of bits. I find a typical load like that, fits perfectly in the panniers.

In a fair contest, yes an average person in a car would have got to Hoghton St/London St lights before me. But any advantage would then have been lost, as they'd have hunted for a free space along Hoghton St, then messed with the Pay & Display. Meantime, I'd have rolled up right outside River Island, no sweat. Demonstrating a bike is often as quick, if not quicker, door-to-door..

[MICK/GILLY]

The average everyday shopper, pedals at about 9mph. I myself like to press on a bit and aim for 12mph. Whilst amateur 'sports riders' go upwards of 15mph, to occasionally double that on a very good day with a following wind.

I'm guessing you've put on quite some weight since we last met, what with taking home 50bags of shopping and all. Myself, I rarely need to bring back more than two full carriers, plus my own personal bag of bits. I find a typical load like that, fits perfectly in the panniers.

In a fair contest, yes an average person in a car would have got to Hoghton St/London St lights before me. But any advantage would then have been lost, as they'd have hunted for a free space along Hoghton St, then messed with the Pay & Display. Meantime, I'd have rolled up right outside River Island, no sweat. Demonstrating a bike is often as quick, if not quicker, door-to-door..

Well if you are so sure you will wager £50 for a charity of Qlocal voters choice then. I mean how can you lose on a Saturday the busiest day in town with the bike lanes that have TAKEN AWAY the pay and display and the 3 disabled bays always full.
Ha ha I mean how on earth could you possibly lose against a poor average motorist going shopping where there is absolutely nowhere to park ( and this is why cycle lanes are killing the town ) .
Unless you have overlooked something ha ha …. So are we on then £50 . ???.

[The PNP]

Well if you are so sure you will wager £50 for a charity of Qlocal voters choice then. I mean how can you lose on a Saturday the busiest day in town with the bike lanes that have TAKEN AWAY the pay and display and the 3 disabled bays always full.
Ha ha I mean how on earth could you possibly lose against a poor average motorist going shopping where there is absolutely nowhere to park ( and this is why cycle lanes are killing the town ) .
Unless you have overlooked something ha ha …. So are we on then £50 . ???.

Conditions at the time I challenged Stu would have to be simulated, or there's no point in doing it. Which means you can't park on London St in a disable bay or somewhere else nearby using that Blue Badge of yours. Other than that, I'm happy to give it a go, but not for cash....Coffee and cake each on Chapel St and the loser pays.