Originally Posted by silver fox

Queens Rd is a minor irritant to some, I am more concerned with your constant babble of wanting cycle lanes on so many roads, you waffle on about diverse ideas such as pedestrianise Lord St, put segregated cycle lanes on PNR etc, apart from Hoghton St being a nuisance to some, current cycle lanes aren’t a problem, my point was the sort of plans that anti motorists espouse.

If such as you got your way, then a town like Southport would die, sure there would very likely be an increase in cycling in town, but others would simply go elsewhere.

You go on about law breaking cyclists going wherever whenever they want. What about all the law breaking drivers entering Queens Rd all day every day. Thousands of em, breaking the law daily, without penalty….. anything to say about that? No thought not….

Originally Posted by lawed143

Oh so you want all the technical and engineering drawings from me do you.? I’m not a road engineer so you’ll have to refer back to Sefton for those - they did propose and design some routes and made the details public.
But basically, you re-engineer the roads, re-align the motor lanes and add in segregated cycle routes. It’s been done thousands of times around the globe on streets just like ours, wide ones, narrow ones, introducing new controls, regulations, one ways, changed priorities etc….. it’s all very possible - you’re just blinkered to the possibilities, which are many.

So you’ve been driving 60 years, so you’re mid to late 70’s. Maybe getting a little tired and stiff. So that’s ok, you can carry on driving even with the cycle lanes - you won’t be stopped or restricted. You’ll just have to learn to share and accept that life has moved on in those 60 years and now changes are coming. Your driving years are coming to an end anyway if you want to be realistic. So maybe it’s time to get cycle lanes installed and then you could still have your freedom to get about once you no longer are safe to drive. It’ll happen.

Who are all these cyclists you see going anywhere at anytime being a law unto themselves.? Cos apparently, according to your cohorts - there aren’t any bloody cyclists around……. Make your mind up, are there loads of law breakers, or are there no cyclists at all.???!!

So you did a bit of cycling the past. Great.! Start again.! You’ll love it. Get an electric bike.! They’re amazing and you can go miles on them. Do it.!

At last, providing cycle lanes will require more than a little construction and infrastructure changes, in order to cater for a tiny minority a considerable investment and disruption will be needed, in the current economic climate justify that if you can.

Incidentally I have not mentioned there being loads of cyclists, merely refer to what so many cyclists do, certainly in the past cycle use was more usual, but those were the days when most lived, worked, shopped, spent there leisure time within a limited area, that is far from the case in today’s world, trying to replicate conditions from 70/80 years ago isn’t realistic.

Thanks for the cycling advice, I need a bike of any description like a hole in the head, cycling fans need to realise that their dreams, wishes, whatever they think of as being right, are not aligned with other people’s needs.

Originally Posted by silver fox

Queens Rd is a minor irritant to some, I am more concerned with your constant babble of wanting cycle lanes on so many roads, you waffle on about diverse ideas such as pedestrianise Lord St, put segregated cycle lanes on PNR etc, apart from Hoghton St being a nuisance to some, current cycle lanes aren’t a problem, my point was the sort of plans that anti motorists espouse.

If such as you got your way, then a town like Southport would die, sure there would very likely be an increase in cycling in town, but others would simply go elsewhere.

More than that....Create space for people and more people will come. Herd them onto pavements and allocate the majority of space to traffic and that's mostly what you'll have - traffic!

As far as making safe cycling possible, for those who may want to make use of bikes. Many roads are now 20mph, meaning cycling on them should be sufficiently safe without any need for bike-lanes, etc. It's only on our fast 30mph roads, where separated bike infra is actually needed.

Lord St: I'd like to see the central part between the 'Brick and Monument become traffic-free, with exception of busses, taxis and bikes. I'd also like to see more of the parking spaces either side of that bit, reserved solely for disabled drivers.

Originally Posted by silver fox

At last, providing cycle lanes will require more than a little construction and infrastructure changes, in order to cater for a tiny minority a considerable investment and disruption will be needed, in the current economic climate justify that if you can.

Incidentally I have not mentioned there being loads of cyclists, merely refer to what so many cyclists do, certainly in the past cycle use was more usual, but those were the days when most lived, worked, shopped, spent there leisure time within a limited area, that is far from the case in today’s world, trying to replicate conditions from 70/80 years ago isn’t realistic.

Thanks for the cycling advice, I need a bike of any description like a hole in the head, cycling fans need to realise that their dreams, wishes, whatever they think of as being right, are not aligned with other people’s needs.

So we can spend billions on infrastructure for motors but not millions on cycling infra? Imagine the savings we’d make if we made cycling safer allowing more to cycle and therefore we’d not have to spend billions on building and maintaining roads…..

Drivist fans need to realise that their wishes, whatever they think of as being right, are not aligned with other people’s needs.! Works both ways doesn’t it….!

The difference between you and me, is I’m open to sharing, open to future trends and open to improving infrastructure for all. Whereas you are merely thinking of yourself and the years you have left to be as stubborn as you can be. Go figure.

Originally Posted by The PNP

More than that....Create space for people and more people will come. Herd them onto pavements and allocate the majority of space to traffic and that's mostly what you'll have - traffic!

As far as making safe cycling possible, for those who may want to make use of bikes. Many roads are now 20mph, meaning cycling on them should be sufficiently safe without any need for bike-lanes, etc. It's only on our fast 30mph roads, where separated bike infra is actually needed.

Lord St: I'd like to see the central part between the 'Brick and Monument become traffic-free, with exception of busses, taxis and bikes. I'd also like to see more of the parking spaces either side of that bit, reserved solely for disabled drivers.

You say people will come, how???

If you think people are going to cycle into town from more outlying areas, dream on.

Originally Posted by lawed143

So we can spend billions on infrastructure for motors but not millions on cycling infra? Imagine the savings we’d make if we made cycling safer allowing more to cycle and therefore we’d not have to spend billions on building and maintaining roads…..

Drivist fans need to realise that their wishes, whatever they think of as being right, are not aligned with other people’s needs.! Works both ways doesn’t it….!

The difference between you and me, is I’m open to sharing, open to future trends and open to improving infrastructure for all. Whereas you are merely thinking of yourself and the years you have left to be as stubborn as you can be. Go figure.

No problem with sharing road space, opposed to pointless chunks of road space being dedicated to a tiny occasional minority, contrary to your thinking, I realise that the world has changed and we are not stepping back in time to bygone times.

Originally Posted by silver fox

You say people will come, how???

If you think people are going to cycle into town from more outlying areas, dream on.

People will come to Southport, the same way they do now. Just because the town would acquire a usable safe bike network, doesn't mean to say visitors will boycott the place - why would they?

As far as those who already live here, there's quite massive scope for improvement. Taking the fact that towns/cities with comprehensive bike infra, see up to (and sometimes more than) 30% of all trips being made by bike. And since there's around 90,000 people living in Southport/Ainsdale/Banks area. And for simplicity's sake, assuming everyone makes one trip per day. Given the appropriate infra, we could expect to see up to 30,000 bike-trips per day, with a corresponding reduction in car trips.

Originally Posted by silver fox

No problem with sharing road space, opposed to pointless chunks of road space being dedicated to a tiny occasional minority, contrary to your thinking, I realise that the world has changed and we are not stepping back in time to bygone times.

They’re not pointless chunks of road space. So do you want all the pointless chunks of pavements handed over to motorists too …. I mean you hardly see anyone walking on them….most of them are used as storage for privately owened motors. The point is you are blinkered to your own needs rather than opening your eyes to the needs of others. Wake up.

It’s also not a step back to bygone times, it’s a step forward to how it should have been designed in the first place. A correction to a poorly executed car-based culture. WHO needs an SUV or 4x4 for the school run and shopping.? Nobody does, but you motorists have fallen for the industry hype and society is paying the price of that. You go to work to earn the money to pay for the car that gets you to work, and the Motor industry sells you a car and then you have to pay for the road to use them on to get to work to pay for the road that gets you to work. And the government highly regulates you and then taxes you for the privilege. And woe be tied if you don’t follow the rules…! You’re mugs.

Times are changing and you sir are on the wrong side of history.
Crack on Mr High n Mighty.! Keep paying those huge fuel bills, servicing costs, taxes, insurance, parking fees..
The rest of us, as cyclists will roam freely as is our right….. just make sure you pass us carefully or there’ll be a fine in the post and higher insurance premiums.!

Good luck Mr Head In The Sand.

Originally Posted by The PNP

People will come to Southport, the same way they do now. Just because the town would acquire a usable safe bike network, doesn't mean to say visitors will boycott the place - why would they?

As far as those who already live here, there's quite massive scope for improvement. Taking the fact that towns/cities with comprehensive bike infra, see up to (and sometimes more than) 30% of all trips being made by bike. And since there's around 90,000 people living in Southport/Ainsdale/Banks area. And for simplicity's sake, assuming everyone makes one trip per day. Given the appropriate infra, we could expect to see up to 30,000 bike-trips per day, with a corresponding reduction in car trips.

You get more and more stupid by the day.

Originally Posted by justbecause

[/B]

You get more and more stupid by the day.

Stupid is, as stupid does.....And what could be more so, than hauling two tons of steel along, everywhere you go. Even if that's for just a short one mile trip into town to catch a train, get to workplace, drop off kid/s, or simply to pick up a couple of everyday items - duh!

Originally Posted by The PNP

Stupid is, as stupid does.....And what could be more so, than hauling two tons of steel along, everywhere you go. Even if that's for just a short one mile trip into town to catch a train, get to workplace, drop off kid/s, or simply to pick up a couple of everyday items - duh!

“we could expect to see up to 30,000 bike-trips per day, with a corresponding reduction in car trips”.

That is even more stupid that the crap you posted about the driving examiner who sent you up the narrow road in an HGV.

Originally Posted by justbecause

“we could expect to see up to 30,000 bike-trips per day, with a corresponding reduction in car trips”.

That is even more stupid that the crap you posted about the driving examiner who sent you up the narrow road in an HGV.

Like I said, that figure is assuming everyone makes one trip per day....A more realistic figure, would be to assume from a population of 90,000, only two-thirds of them make a trip once per day.....In which case, you're still left with 20,000 bike-trips per day on average. Btw, don't forget that I have lived in places with good bike infra, where that level of bike-usage is considered perfectly normal.

Originally Posted by lawed143

They’re not pointless chunks of road space. So do you want all the pointless chunks of pavements handed over to motorists too …. I mean you hardly see anyone walking on them….most of them are used as storage for privately owened motors. The point is you are blinkered to your own needs rather than opening your eyes to the needs of others. Wake up.

It’s also not a step back to bygone times, it’s a step forward to how it should have been designed in the first place. A correction to a poorly executed car-based culture. WHO needs an SUV or 4x4 for the school run and shopping.? Nobody does, but you motorists have fallen for the industry hype and society is paying the price of that. You go to work to earn the money to pay for the car that gets you to work, and the Motor industry sells you a car and then you have to pay for the road to use them on to get to work to pay for the road that gets you to work. And the government highly regulates you and then taxes you for the privilege. And woe be tied if you don’t follow the rules…! You’re mugs.

Times are changing and you sir are on the wrong side of history.
Crack on Mr High n Mighty.! Keep paying those huge fuel bills, servicing costs, taxes, insurance, parking fees..
The rest of us, as cyclists will roam freely as is our right….. just make sure you pass us carefully or there’ll be a fine in the post and higher insurance premiums.!

Good luck Mr Head In The Sand.

Have never suggested getting rid of pavements, that’s a figment of your distorted imagination, both yourself and your buddy are harping back to a long gone bygone era.

For instance I grew up in a small rural village, very agricultural, most worked directly or indirectly with agriculture, the tiny village had two general stores, a doctors surgery, a dairy, coal merchants, blacksmith/wheelwright, a small cafe/restaurant which was also the local chippy, a garage with one fuel pump, local mobile traders came round carrying all manner of household goods even everyday/work clothing, all of that has now gone and surprise, surprise everyone now travels for any and every service.

It can be argued as to whether those times were better, but the fact is you and your oppo would love to see that sort of situation returned, where everything was within easy travel distance, very few cars, but also very little choice for inhabitants.

Originally Posted by The PNP

People will come to Southport, the same way they do now. Just because the town would acquire a usable safe bike network, doesn't mean to say visitors will boycott the place - why would they?

As far as those who already live here, there's quite massive scope for improvement. Taking the fact that towns/cities with comprehensive bike infra, see up to (and sometimes more than) 30% of all trips being made by bike. And since there's around 90,000 people living in Southport/Ainsdale/Banks area. And for simplicity's sake, assuming everyone makes one trip per day. Given the appropriate infra, we could expect to see up to 30,000 bike-trips per day, with a corresponding reduction in car trips.

You get worse, do you seriously think that people from the surrounding area will suddenly decide to cycle into Southport, no chance apart from leisure trips, anyone in a job where they are expected to have a presentable appearance, they aren’t going to cycle in looking like they have been dragged through a hedge backwards, anyone carrying tools or equipment, just simple shopping, the bike is a nonstarter.

Your harping back to conditions of many years back.

Originally Posted by silver fox

You get worse, do you seriously think that people from the surrounding area will suddenly decide to cycle into Southport, no chance apart from leisure trips, anyone in a job where they are expected to have a presentable appearance, they aren’t going to cycle in looking like they have been dragged through a hedge backwards, anyone carrying tools or equipment, just simple shopping, the bike is a nonstarter.

Your harping back to conditions of many years back.

He’s totally deluded expecting people to make 30000 bike journey’s a DAY.