Green Party sabotage.

[The PNP]

Certainly the Israel/Gaza conflict arouses many concerns, but we don't want religious freaks spreading their particular brand of poison into this country, why the hell should this conflict have a bearing on our local elections, the Russian/Ukraine war has much more significance to our country, where are the protesters and supporters?

Agree that it would be much better if people got on with their lives, try telling the likes of Hamas, Hezbollah, Putin, Kim Jong Un and a few others, good luck with that.

Well, I for one am no 'religious freak' and I've no foot in any particular religious camp. But that doesn't stop me from seeing an injustice, when one is clearly in progress. Which in turn would certainly alienate my support for a Party, if they were on the wrong side in a conflict.

[silver fox]

Well, I for one am no 'religious freak' and I've no foot in any particular religious camp. But that doesn't stop me from seeing an injustice, when one is clearly in progress. Which in turn would certainly alienate my support for a Party, if they were on the wrong side in a conflict.

I never said that you personally are a religious freak, however you can’t condemn Israel, without also condemning Hamas, Hezbollah etc.

As a what if, should for instance Wales become wholly independent from the UK, then began a long catalogue of terrorist actions against England until finally launched an attack where civilians were murdered, tortured and kidnapped, Wales would have very quickly become a smoking hole in the ground, like it or not that would be the reaction.

Obviously this a totally remote hypothetical and unlikely circumstance, but just try to think wider .

As far as the “wrong side” that is very much an opinion, plus of course religion has become a driver in this conflict, that I will not support, whatever the religion.

[sandGroundZero]

…
As a what if, should for instance Wales become wholly independent from the UK, then began a long catalogue of terrorist actions against England until finally launched an attack where civilians were murdered, tortured and kidnapped, Wales would have very quickly become a smoking hole in the ground, like it or not that would be the reaction.

Obviously this a totally remote hypothetical and unlikely circumstance, but just try to think wider .

…

Some poster (silver fox??) had previously proposed this as an hypothetically analogous situation to that in Palestine. As posted, it fails. Try this: WHAT IF a portion of the Welsh diaspora invaded England, expelled a significant fraction of the population and subjected the rest to decades of privation and harassment? — just try to think wider!

[Hamble]

Well, I for one am no 'religious freak' and I've no foot in any particular religious camp. But that doesn't stop me from seeing an injustice, when one is clearly in progress. Which in turn would certainly alienate my support for a Party, if they were on the wrong side in a conflict.

Would you support terrorists in the UK?

This war is about Palestinian racism against Jewish people living in a land
they have equal right to belong as non Jews.

Palestine would not even agree to dissagree and accept partition in 1948.

If you had any doubts on 'injustice' you would look at historical and Georaphical history of racism by Muslim States across the World.

If you did not want Hamas to destroy Israel and her peoples of all religions including 2 million Arab Israeli's why persist in fielding Hamas propaganda and lies?

The Palestinian and Israeli peoples have been sucked into horrific patterns of attack and defend with no end in sight unless the terrorsts
Hamas and PIJ are removed allowing civilised non violent negotiation
back to the table.

Free the Israeli hostages Palestine.
Surrender lay down your arms denounce Hamas.

[Hamble]

On the plus side I don't think Humza Yousef will be joining the Greens.

[silver fox]

Some poster (silver fox??) had previously proposed this as an hypothetically analogous situation to that in Palestine. As posted, it fails. Try this: WHAT IF a portion of the Welsh diaspora invaded England, expelled a significant fraction of the population and subjected the rest to decades of privation and harassment? — just try to think wider!

That very much depends on who you regard as the invaders, the vast bulk of the British and the French mandated territories were ceded to Arab nations, but they could not permit anyone else to have even a small proportion of the entire territory, even people who were part of the existing population.

Plus of course a sidetrack, our concern must be regarding Islamic influence in our country, am very much of the opinion that anyone migrated to another country to become a citizen of that country must abide by the laws and rules of that country,

As far as religion is concerned, while staying within the law anyone should be free to follow whichever brand of fantasy and fiction they wish, they are not free to impose their brand on others, not free to demand changes to laws and rules to accommodate their brand.

[sandGroundZero]

That very much depends on who you regard as the invaders, the vast bulk of the British and the French mandated territories were ceded to Arab nations, but they could not permit anyone else to have even a small proportion of the entire territory, even people who were part of the existing population.
…

The meaning you intend in this sentence is not altogether clear. For instance, "…mandated territories were ceded to Arab nations"? National boundaries were created with a view to reproducing spheres of influence as it became clear old-style colonial rule had become untenable. The wishes of the Arab population were given negligible weight. The Jewish State demanded by Zionists necessarily required ethnic cleansing of "the existing" Arab population. Referring as you do to post #78, who were "invaders"? European Jewish immigration into Palestine was NOT the wish of the preexistent Arab population.

…
Plus of course a sidetrack, our concern must be regarding Islamic influence in our country, am very much of the opinion that anyone migrated to another country to become a citizen of that country must abide by the laws and rules of that country,
…

— highlighting added

— a generally accepted principle which, however was totally upended by the Zionists' Jewish State! "Islamic influence in our country" is a peripheral issue. Any supposed threat of Islamization is over-egged by individuals or groups with an agenda which includes generating irrational fears! In relation to Palestine, Islamic influence, Islamization, is a rhetorical straw man in the Q Local Southport forum.

[silver fox]

The meaning you intend in this sentence is not altogether clear. For instance, "…mandated territories were ceded to Arab nations"? National boundaries were created with a view to reproducing spheres of influence as it became clear old-style colonial rule had become untenable. The wishes of the Arab population were given negligible weight. The Jewish State demanded by Zionists necessarily required ethnic cleansing of "the existing" Arab population. Referring as you do to post #78, who were "invaders"? European Jewish immigration into Palestine was NOT the wish of the preexistent Arab population.

— a generally accepted principle which, however was totally upended by the Zionists' Jewish State! "Islamic influence in our country" is a peripheral issue. Any supposed threat of Islamization is over-egged by individuals or groups with an agenda which includes generating irrational fears! In relation to Palestine, Islamic influence, Islamization, is a rhetorical straw man in the Q Local Southport forum.

When local councillors are elected on a Gaza ticket, when one of the elected cries out Alluha Akbar or some such to applause, yes there is a problem, sure this wasn’t in our local election, but considerably more relevant than events in the Middle East.

Then we have the demands for aspects of Sharia law in the UK, ignore it as irrelevant if you wish.

[sandGroundZero]

The [OP] article is a scattershot Telegraph screed incorporating a recurring, regrettable feature of the local elections, namely that voters express their grievances over contentious issues du jour.

When local councillors are elected on a Gaza ticket, when one of the elected cries out Alluha Akbar or some such to applause, yes there is a problem, sure this wasn’t in our local election, but considerably more relevant than events in the Middle East.

Then we have the demands for aspects of Sharia law in the UK, ignore it as irrelevant if you wish.

I note, silver fox, that you decline to address the first paragraphs of my previous post. _______________ What we had in the recent local elections is pretty much 'politics as usual' insofar as local governance is superseded by "contentious issues du jour" — in this instance disaffection with Keir Starmer's bungling of a 'progressive' and/or peaceniks' expectations. This thread's title smears the Green party in view of its being one of several recipients of protest votes. "Alluha Akbar" from a newly elected Green Councillor is a quirk of our inadequate electoral arrangements. What is more, making emotional issues for a segment of the UK's Muslim voters into causes célèbres in the forum is precisely the "rhetorical straw man" of my previous post. Finally, an implication that Muslims vote as a block (more than others) is probably a tad racist!

[silver fox]

The [OP] article is a scattershot Telegraph screed incorporating a recurring, regrettable feature of the local elections, namely that voters express their grievances over contentious issues du jour.

I note, silver fox, that you decline to address the first paragraphs of my previous post. _______________ What we had in the recent local elections is pretty much 'politics as usual' insofar as local governance is superseded by "contentious issues du jour" — in this instance disaffection with Keir Starmer's bungling of a 'progressive' and/or peaceniks' expectations. This thread's title smears the Green party in view of its being one of several recipients of protest votes. "Alluha Akbar" from a newly elected Green Councillor is a quirk of our inadequate electoral arrangements. What is more, making emotional issues for a segment of the UK's Muslim voters into causes célèbres in the forum is precisely the "rhetorical straw man" of my previous post. Finally, an implication that Muslims vote as a block (more than others) is probably a tad racist!

It’s simple enough the previous mandated territories have become Israel, Palestine, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, the Jewish people were granted Israel, the Arab/Muslim nations were granted the rest, I think the smallest population got the smallest territory, but of course that wasn’t enough for the Arab/Muslim nations.

Never said that Muslims vote as a block, but there is clear influence there, I know that my stance will never go well with your anti Israel opinion, but let’s say we have quite a difference of opinion.

[Toodles McGinty]

Finally, an implication that Muslims vote as a block (more than others) is probably a tad racist!

Firstly, which race?

Secondly:

Analysis from Sky News shows that areas with a Muslim population below 5% saw the Labour Party's vote share increase by 1.1 percentage points. But areas with a Muslim population above 20% saw Sir Keir Starmer's party lose 17.9 points from their vote share.

Those figures suggest there is an influence on voting from the population of an area. Less influence, more likelihood of voting as individuals. That's exactly how Galloway returned to the Commons. Plus the '18 demands' from an organisation that actually calls itself 'The Muslim Vote', would suggest block voting.

As for racism, I'd suggest that Starmer trying to rid Labour of antisemitism has lost Muslim votes. That and apparently saying 'Israel has a right to defend itself' and asking for a ceasefire rather than demanding Israel be wiped off the map has lost not only the Muslim vote, but the extreme left lunatics of Momentum.

Oh well. I'd have suggested maybe moving to Scotland, but now Humza has gone there's not much point. They'll get no change out of the Tories and their leader. So I guess the least ridiculous choice is the Greens. Half of whom would be hurled from a tall building should they poke a toe into a Sharia run place like Palestine. But those leopards would never eat fellow Green faces, would they?

[Hamble]

Firstly, which race?

Secondly:

Analysis from Sky News shows that areas with a Muslim population below 5% saw the Labour Party's vote share increase by 1.1 percentage points. But areas with a Muslim population above 20% saw Sir Keir Starmer's party lose 17.9 points from their vote share.

Those figures suggest there is an influence on voting from the population of an area. Less influence, more likelihood of voting as individuals. That's exactly how Galloway returned to the Commons. Plus the '18 demands' from an organisation that actually calls itself 'The Muslim Vote', would suggest block voting.

As for racism, I'd suggest that Starmer trying to rid Labour of antisemitism has lost Muslim votes. That and apparently saying 'Israel has a right to defend itself' and asking for a ceasefire rather than demanding Israel be wiped off the map has lost not only the Muslim vote, but the extreme left lunatics of Momentum.

Oh well. I'd have suggested maybe moving to Scotland, but now Humza has gone there's not much point. They'll get no change out of the Tories and their leader. So I guess the least ridiculous choice is the Greens. Half of whom would be hurled from a tall building should they poke a toe into a Sharia run place like Palestine. But those leopards would never eat fellow Green faces, would they?

Ironic that Gaza has not had an election since 2006 the only Jews there are Israeli hostages or dead.

[sandGroundZero]

It’s simple enough the previous mandated territories have become Israel, Palestine, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, the Jewish people were granted Israel, the Arab/Muslim nations were granted the rest, I think the smallest population got the smallest territory, but of course that wasn’t enough for the Arab/Muslim nations. Never said that Muslims vote as a block, but there is clear influence there, I know that my stance will never go well with your anti Israel opinion, but let’s say we have quite a difference of opinion. — versus a Zionist's view of the matter: 1920 - Original territory assigned to the Jewish National Home see: Mandate for Palestine

[Hamble]

sGZ's map link source?





https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/re-i...and-elsewhere/

Or this one?

https://www.sidroth.org/articles/questions-no-one-asks/

[sandGroundZero]

sGZ's map link source? Times of Israel Blog by YJ Draiman Re: Israel – To whom it may concern Or this one? The Questions No One Asks Hamble, you have evidently overlooked the link in my post — Mandate for Palestine — original source Eli E. Hertz