Green Party sabotage.

[Hamble]

I doubt there were hundreds of thousands of empty properties lying around in Palestine for migrant Jews to just move into either...Makes you wonder, if that wasn't a major reason behind clearing the existing population out of their homes, a process which continues into the present-day.

No there were not.

Have you heard of Kibbutzim?

[sandGroundZero]

There is obviously some truth in that, however let’s not forget that between 40 and 60 million people were displaced during WE2, at the end of the war many, particularly Jews could not return to what had been their homes, survivors from concentration/slave camps numbered 100s of thousands, where do you think many headed for while looking for safety and security?

Of course this wasn’t just Jewish migration, huge numbers wouldn’t return to Soviet occupied territories, for obvious reasons, migrants went to other countries as well as Israel, it’s difficult for us to fully comprehend the scale of the mass movement of people after the war.

All that said, it is important to recognize the Arab perspective. Persecuted European Jews were a European problem. By 1945 the Arab world had had to contend with decades of European colonial interference. The first preference for very many Jewish migrants was the United States. However, U.S. President Truman (a 'fine Bible Student'¹) yielded to domestic pressure to limit U.S. immigration. Instead, he endorsed the movement of displaced Jewish persons to Palestine. The Zionists' project to create a Jewish state in Palestine required the displacement of a large portion of its Arab population. The Zionist narrative totally submerged any consideration of the Palestinians — then, and now! The Palestinian struggle for justice strives to overcome this pervasive Zionist narrative. Note 1: Clark Clifford, cited in 'A Senseless, Squalid War' by Norman Rose

[silver fox]

'Moving out'?
Fleeing more like!

I take it you are aware that neighbouring Arab nations encouraged Arabs in Israel to move to Gaza and the West Bank, after the Arab nations had crushed the fledging Israeli state, those could then move back and take over the territory.

Now we all know that didn’t go according to plan, leaving disaffected Arabs trapped in the West Bank and Gaza, obviously Israel didn’t want these people moving back, but the neighbouring Arab countries didn’t want them either, in fact Jordan eventually evicted the remains of the PLO, who moved to Lebanon, morphed into Hezbollah.

There are obviously rights and wrongs on both sides, but this vilification of Israel as the villains of the piece, is very misplaced.

[Hamble]

Germany would have been under Allied control and probably also marshal law at that time...I doubt many murder cases would have been overlooked - unless it was a case of the formerly oppressed, taking revenge against known Nazis.

Post WW2 pogrom in Poland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kielce_pogrom

Germany had its problems from racism in Poland.


Quote
"Actual Jewish acts of violent revenge were exceedingly rare in occupied Germany. The very nature of the Holocaust as a bureaucratically organized genocide with diffused responsibility and often remote perpetrators made it difficult to identify local and individual targets for such actions. German fears of Jewish revenge were therefore located largely in the realm of fantasy; they had little basis in actual reality.

Still, fears of retribution defined the ways in which Germans imagined their post-Nazi future. These fears also resulted from the fact that, paradoxically, the number of Jewish survivors in post-war Germany increased rapidly from only 20,000 in 1945 to 250,000 in 1947, largely because of the influx of Polish Jews who had survived the war in the Soviet Union and then fled a series of antisemitic pogroms in post-war Poland. Germans resented the better treatment, such as higher food ratios and preferred housing, that American occupation authorities granted Jewish survivors."

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/wa...st-war-germany


Europe was still in effect one country when it came to Nazi sympathisers,refugees and Stateless people.

[Toodles McGinty]

Don't most Arabs consider Palestinians a mixed bunch of immigrants from other places? I read those that aren't of Jewish descent are a mix of Mongol, Romany, Turk, Armenian etc, all displaced people according to the Quran. And that Israelis have claim to most of the land?

Anyway, back to the OP. Seems to me that the Greens lost all pretence of actually being green a while ago. Particularly in Scotland, now increasingly in the rest of Britain. I had a lot of time for Caroline Lucas, she at least stuck to the environmental agenda of the party. Now they appear to welcome any fringe activists with a grievance. I'm surprised Galloway hasn't decided to join them.

Though pot, kettle, Labour, Elphicke...

I'd once have considered the Greens as an 'alternative' vote. Now I'm not even sure what they stand for. Sharia law or recycling?

I'm happy to have a more varied political landscape. More points of view, more choice. I'm not happy that our political landscape is seemingly centered on the issues of a country over 3000 miles away. When that situation resolves itself - or returns to low level festering under the surface as it will - where does that leave us?

[local]

It's getting a habit but I agree the Greens have lost their souls, coming down on either side of the current conflict is a tricky balance.


Not unlike the current Labour Party


Let's be honest "none of the above" is looking increasingly attractive.

But come what may Sharia Law and all its incarnations is something all should come together against whatever your politics.

Many of those well-intentioned activists need to be wary of just who they are waving their flags with and what they actually want.

[Hamble]

I have always believed that Islamists sabotaged the Labour Party and what it stands for.

Starmer,though no politician has managed to offload the problem to the less wary party's.

[sandGroundZero]

I take it you are aware that neighbouring Arab nations encouraged Arabs in Israel to move to Gaza and the West Bank, after the Arab nations had crushed the fledging Israeli state, those could then move back and take over the territory.

…

There are obviously rights and wrongs on both sides, but this vilification of Israel as the villains of the piece, is very misplaced.

Nakba: The Palestinian catastrophe, explained Middle East Eye breaks down the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948, which continues to define events in Israel-Palestine today

More than 750,000 Palestinian were forcibly expelled from their homeland by Zionist militia in 1948 (AFP)

[Hamble]

So easy to look up but so hard to prove.

Wiki depends on its contributors and the devil is very much in the small print.

A healthy dose of Kosher salt methinks.

On the plus side all wiki posts are not based on the sancrity of one author's opinion.

Unless contested/challenged with an alternative a wiki post stands.

[silver fox]

Don't most Arabs consider Palestinians a mixed bunch of immigrants from other places? I read those that aren't of Jewish descent are a mix of Mongol, Romany, Turk, Armenian etc, all displaced people according to the Quran. And that Israelis have claim to most of the land?

Anyway, back to the OP. Seems to me that the Greens lost all pretence of actually being green a while ago. Particularly in Scotland, now increasingly in the rest of Britain. I had a lot of time for Caroline Lucas, she at least stuck to the environmental agenda of the party. Now they appear to welcome any fringe activists with a grievance. I'm surprised Galloway hasn't decided to join them.

Though pot, kettle, Labour, Elphicke...

I'd once have considered the Greens as an 'alternative' vote. Now I'm not even sure what they stand for. Sharia law or recycling?

I'm happy to have a more varied political landscape. More points of view, more choice. I'm not happy that our political landscape is seemingly centered on the issues of a country over 3000 miles away. When that situation resolves itself - or returns to low level festering under the surface as it will - where does that leave us?

Agree this thread has moved from the initial posting, I’m as guilty as anyone, I believe it must be clarified very quickly that British law is paramount and any attempt to bring in religious law must not be permitted, under any circumstances. The Greens have most definitely lost the plot supporting candidates with a very different and unwanted agenda.

Our own history covers times when religious law was the order, this was primarily Papal law, with eventually the Protestant Church overthrew Roman Catholicism. A great deal of discrimination, outright violence and full blown wars resulted from this, we must not under any circumstances revive this sort of division, particularly involving a religion and culture which is utterly alien to us and our country.

Most certainly no matter our views on the Israel/Gaza this should not be a determining factor in our government, particularly local government

[The PNP]

Agree this thread has moved from the initial posting, I’m as guilty as anyone, I believe it must be clarified very quickly that British law is paramount and any attempt to bring in religious law must not be permitted, under any circumstances. The Greens have most definitely lost the plot supporting candidates with a very different and unwanted agenda.

Our own history covers times when religious law was the order, this was primarily Papal law, with eventually the Protestant Church overthrew Roman Catholicism. A great deal of discrimination, outright violence and full blown wars resulted from this, we must not under any circumstances revive this sort of division, particularly involving a religion and culture which is utterly alien to us and our country.

Most certainly no matter our views on the Israel/Gaza this should not be a determining factor in our government, particularly local government

And those views on 'Gaza/Israel', frequently do seem to mirror the viewpointholders religious beliefs....I just wish people would get on with their own lives and be happy, rather than encroaching on other peoples territory. Because as history shows us time and again, expansionism is never popular with the ones being expanded into and often leads to wars.

[silver fox]

And those views on 'Gaza/Israel', frequently do seem to mirror the viewpointholders religious beliefs....I just wish people would get on with their own lives and be happy, rather than encroaching on other peoples territory. Because as history shows us time and again, expansionism is never popular with the ones being expanded into and often leads to wars.

Certainly the Israel/Gaza conflict arouses many concerns, but we don't want religious freaks spreading their particular brand of poison into this country, why the hell should this conflict have a bearing on our local elections, the Russian/Ukraine war has much more significance to our country, where are the protesters and supporters?

Agree that it would be much better if people got on with their lives, try telling the likes of Hamas, Hezbollah, Putin, Kim Jong Un and a few others, good luck with that.

[sandGroundZero]

Toodles McGinty's post #65 … Anyway, back to the OP. Seems to me that the Greens lost all pretence of actually being green a while ago. Particularly in Scotland, now increasingly in the rest of Britain. I had a lot of time for Caroline Lucas, she at least stuck to the environmental agenda of the party. Now they appear to welcome any fringe activists with a grievance. I'm surprised Galloway hasn't decided to join them. Though pot, kettle, Labour, Elphicke... I'd once have considered the Greens as an 'alternative' vote. Now I'm not even sure what they stand for. Sharia law or recycling? I'm happy to have a more varied political landscape. More points of view, more choice. I'm not happy that our political landscape is seemingly centered on the issues of a country over 3000 miles away. When that situation resolves itself - or returns to low level festering under the surface as it will - where does that leave us?

Had anyone gone "back to the OP" and read it, s/he might notice that the C&P of a complete article from the Telegraph concluding with the short paragraph:

“If you can’t commit to that – that’s cool. I’m sure [the Green Party or the Lib Dems] would be happy to take the votes.”

— one and only one mention of the Green party!

The article is a scattershot Telegraph screed incorporating a recurring, regrettable feature of the local elections, namely that voters express their grievances over contentious issues du jour. So, who's the fool?

[local]

We are assured it's a luvvie virtue- signaling greenwash fest when Greta Thunberg turns up to her latest publicity stunt at of all places an anti- Israel protest at Eurovision.


That festival of naffness does at least bring people together.

We'll have Stop oil protestors and I suppose Black Live Matters looking to enrich themselves next although they are busy trying to get their hands on millions of dollars.

And who else is riding the wave but good old George Soros.

[Hamble]

The Greens are taking their time on the sabotagers.

I mean what more do they need?