BREXIT - nothing new again

[steve]

I can't see anything new at all in the debate in parliament today by May.

Same old, same old. She keeps saying about what she will bring back from Brussels whilst Brussels have since said November there will be no changes.

Nothing new at all. 45 days to go. She is taking this country to the edge of the cliff.

[Alikado]

There won't be anything new, a few words may get altered, the Back stop may become a Implementation Phase or a Buffer or some meaningless thing. The only thing that will alter is the things that they were hoping to ditch such as Employment and Environmental Protections, when these are implemented Jeremy will supply the votes required to get the Deal through Parliament and thwart the Rebels.

[AdmiralAckbar]

Saw this on FB and thought it quite apt ...

"For the avoidance of doubt or Brexit explained:
David Cameron made a promise he didn't think he'd have to keep to have a referendum he didn't think he would lose.

Boris Johnson decided to back the side he didn't believe in because he didn't think it would win.

Then Gove, who said he wouldn't run, did, and Boris who said he would run, said he wouldn't, and Theresa May who didn't vote for Brexit got the job of making it happen.

She called the election she said she wouldn't and lost the majority David Cameron hadn't expected to win in the first place.

She triggered Article 50 when we didn't need to and said we would talk about trade at the same time as the divorce deal and the EU said they wouldn't so we didn't.

People thought she wouldn't get the divorce settled but she did, but only by agreeing to separate arrangements for Northern Ireland when she had promised the DUP she wouldn't.

Then the Cabinet agreed a deal but they hadn't, and David Davis who was Brexit Secretary but wasn't said it wasn't what people had voted for and he couldn't support what he had just supported and left.

Boris Johnson who hadn't left then wished that he had and did, but it was a bit late for that.

Dominic Raab become the new Brexit secretary.

People thought Theresa May wouldn't get a withdrawal agreement negotiated, but once she had they wished that she hadn't, because hardly anybody liked it whether they wanted to leave or not.

Jacob Rees-Mogg kept threatening a vote of no confidence in her but not enough people were confident enough people would not have confidence in her to confidently call a no confidence vote.

Dominic Raab said he hadn't really been Brexit Secretary either and resigned, and somebody else took the job but it probably isn't worth remembering who they are as they're not really doing the job either as Olly Robbins is.

Then she said she would call a vote and didn't, that she wouldn't release some legal advice but had to, that she would get some concessions but didn't, and got cross that Juncker was calling her nebulous when he wasn't but probably should have been.

At some point Jacob Rees Mogg and others called a vote of no confidence in her, which she won by promising to leave, so she can stay.

But they said she had really lost it and should go, at the same time as saying that people who voted Leave knew what they were voting for which they couldn't possibly have because we still don't know now, and that we should leave the vote to Leave vote alone but have no confidence in the no confidence vote which won by more.

The government also argued in court against us being able to say we didn't want to leave after all but it turned out we could.

She named a date for the vote on her agreement which nobody expected to pass, while pretending that no deal which nobody wants is still possible (even though we know we can just say we are not leaving), and that we can't have a second referendum because having a democratic vote is undemocratic. And of course as expected she loses.

Some people are talking about a managed no-deal which is not a deal but is not no-deal either.

Thank goodness for strong and stable government."

Just about sums it up really.

[seivad]

Saw this on FB and thought it quite apt ...

"For the avoidance of doubt or Brexit explained:
David Cameron made a promise he didn't think he'd have to keep to have a referendum he didn't think he would lose.

Boris Johnson decided to back the side he didn't believe in because he didn't think it would win.

Then Gove, who said he wouldn't run, did, and Boris who said he would run, said he wouldn't, and Theresa May who didn't vote for Brexit got the job of making it happen.

She called the election she said she wouldn't and lost the majority David Cameron hadn't expected to win in the first place.

She triggered Article 50 when we didn't need to and said we would talk about trade at the same time as the divorce deal and the EU said they wouldn't so we didn't.

People thought she wouldn't get the divorce settled but she did, but only by agreeing to separate arrangements for Northern Ireland when she had promised the DUP she wouldn't.

Then the Cabinet agreed a deal but they hadn't, and David Davis who was Brexit Secretary but wasn't said it wasn't what people had voted for and he couldn't support what he had just supported and left.

Boris Johnson who hadn't left then wished that he had and did, but it was a bit late for that.

Dominic Raab become the new Brexit secretary.

People thought Theresa May wouldn't get a withdrawal agreement negotiated, but once she had they wished that she hadn't, because hardly anybody liked it whether they wanted to leave or not.

Jacob Rees-Mogg kept threatening a vote of no confidence in her but not enough people were confident enough people would not have confidence in her to confidently call a no confidence vote.

Dominic Raab said he hadn't really been Brexit Secretary either and resigned, and somebody else took the job but it probably isn't worth remembering who they are as they're not really doing the job either as Olly Robbins is.

Then she said she would call a vote and didn't, that she wouldn't release some legal advice but had to, that she would get some concessions but didn't, and got cross that Juncker was calling her nebulous when he wasn't but probably should have been.

At some point Jacob Rees Mogg and others called a vote of no confidence in her, which she won by promising to leave, so she can stay.

But they said she had really lost it and should go, at the same time as saying that people who voted Leave knew what they were voting for which they couldn't possibly have because we still don't know now, and that we should leave the vote to Leave vote alone but have no confidence in the no confidence vote which won by more.

The government also argued in court against us being able to say we didn't want to leave after all but it turned out we could.

She named a date for the vote on her agreement which nobody expected to pass, while pretending that no deal which nobody wants is still possible (even though we know we can just say we are not leaving), and that we can't have a second referendum because having a democratic vote is undemocratic. And of course as expected she loses.

Some people are talking about a managed no-deal which is not a deal but is not no-deal either.

Thank goodness for strong and stable government."

Just about sums it up really.

Brilliant!

[Ceam]

I can't see anything new at all in the debate in parliament today by May.

Same old, same old. She keeps saying about what she will bring back from Brussels whilst Brussels have since said November there will be no changes.

Nothing new at all. 45 days to go. She is taking this country to the edge of the cliff.

No the general public have taken the country to the edge of a cliff, She's just the one that's going to take the blame.

[Toodles McGinty]

"For the avoidance of doubt or Brexit explained:
David Cameron made a promise he didn't think he'd have to keep to have a referendum he didn't think he would lose....

...She named a date for the vote on her agreement which nobody expected to pass, while pretending that no deal which nobody wants is still possible (even though we know we can just say we are not leaving), and that we can't have a second referendum because having a democratic vote is undemocratic. And of course as expected she loses.

Some people are talking about a managed no-deal which is not a deal but is not no-deal either.

Thank goodness for strong and stable government."

Just about sums it up really.

Certainly does.

The days are ticking down to a 'no deal', which is just about worst case scenario. Surely they've got to extend Article 50 at some point.

If only to usher in some changes in the front benches. At one point I was thinking that we might as well let this government get on with it, as they've been negotiating for this long. But they've come up with very little in 2 years. Maybe it is time for a General Election, at least so that the EU would stop the clock for a while. I don't see Corbyn or May leading their parties in 6 months. Both parties are fractured. Neither can agree on a particular direction for fear of upsetting the back benches.

Time to clear the decks, I reckon.

[seivad]

Certainly does.

The days are ticking down to a 'no deal', which is just about worst case scenario. Surely they've got to extend Article 50 at some point.

If only to usher in some changes in the front benches. At one point I was thinking that we might as well let this government get on with it, as they've been negotiating for this long. But they've come up with very little in 2 years. Maybe it is time for a General Election, at least so that the EU would stop the clock for a while. I don't see Corbyn or May leading their parties in 6 months. Both parties are fractured. Neither can agree on a particular direction for fear of upsetting the back benches.

Time to clear the decks, I reckon.

I would like to see Emily Thornberry as Leader of the Labour Party. I loved her remarks to David Lidington when she was standing in for Corbyn last week on PM's Question Time... particularly the one below when she was talking about Lidington:

"As the newspaper’s call him effectively the deputy Prime Minister… surely the only occasion these days when the words prime minister and effective are used in the same sentence.”

[thediscovolante]

I can't see anything new at all in the debate in parliament today by May.

Same old, same old. She keeps saying about what she will bring back from Brussels whilst Brussels have since said November there will be no changes.

Nothing new at all. 45 days to go. She is taking this country to the edge of the cliff.

but what a lovely cliff...white cliffs of dover and we get our country back from the snivelling guardian readers

[seivad]

but what a lovely cliff...white cliffs of dover and we get our country back from the snivelling guardian readers

Let me know how it feels when you're covered in scrapes from the fall. Hopefully you won't drown.

Here's a bit of Vera for you. You're obviously nostalgic for the 40s

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/d5aeClRY4kA" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

[Toodles McGinty]

but what a lovely cliff...white cliffs of dover and we get our country back from the snivelling guardian readers

Really? What's going to happen to them, then?

[salus.populi]

Really? What's going to happen to them, then?

Nothing that won't also happen to The Sun and Daily Mail readers.

[thediscovolante]

Let me know how it feels when you're covered in scrapes from the fall. Hopefully you won't drown.

Here's a bit of Vera for you. You're obviously nostalgic for the 40s

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/d5aeClRY4kA" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

hmm i do like a bit of vera...as did!!!... my father and 3 uncles...royal navy destroyer in the med sunk..and 4/1 commando from normandy to berlin with many injuries and served with lord lovett (my uncle frank he used to represent the normandy veterans at our cenotaph i very much doubt you knew him!!!, you would have been reading your gaurdian in your conservortary)...my other uncles in scotch gaurds....they all fought for my country (obviously not yours).....other family members in poland executed,,along with their horses and homes burnt down .then to see britain being pushed around by europe makes my blood boil....you make me want to vomit as im sure do most brits...britain will endure yet again as we have done for a thousand years...if you love europe so much go live there....you are obviously a legend and bully in your own lunchtime but dont get insulting to real patriots...this is why real britain voted brexit.low life.people like you

[Ceam]

hmm i do like a bit of vera...as did!!!... my father and 3 uncles...royal navy destroyer in the med sunk..and 4/1 commando from normandy to berlin with many injuries and served with lord lovett (my uncle frank he used to represent the normandy veterans at our cenotaph i very much doubt you knew him!!!, you would have been reading your gaurdian in your conservortary)...my other uncles in scotch gaurds....they all fought for my country (obviously not yours).....other family members in poland executed,,along with their horses and homes burnt down .then to see britain being pushed around by europe makes my blood boil....you make me want to vomit as im sure do most brits...britain will endure yet again as we have done for a thousand years...if you love europe so much go live there....you are obviously a legend and bully in your own lunchtime but dont get insulting to real patriots...this is why real britain voted brexit.low life.people like you

She has the joy of being on the other side of the pond while we jump in without the ability to swim.

Surprised you managed to type all that with all the blood on your knuckles.

[thediscovolante]

[QUOTE=Ceam;6668933]She has the joy of being on the other side of the pond while we jump in without the ability to swim.

Surprised you managed to type all that with all the blood on your knuckles.[/QU
what does that mean????...i nursed my uncle frank through dementia..he fought the nazis to berlin but nobody was there when he he succomed to dementia..we were there..whats wrong with you you need help

[Toodles McGinty]

hmm i do like a bit of vera...as did!!!... my father and 3 uncles...royal navy destroyer in the med sunk..and 4/1 commando from normandy to berlin with many injuries and served with lord lovett (my uncle frank he used to represent the normandy veterans at our cenotaph i very much doubt you knew him!!!, you would have been reading your gaurdian in your conservortary)...my other uncles in scotch gaurds....they all fought for my country (obviously not yours).....other family members in poland executed,,along with their horses and homes burnt down .then to see britain being pushed around by europe makes my blood boil....you make me want to vomit as im sure do most brits...britain will endure yet again as we have done for a thousand years...if you love europe so much go live there....you are obviously a legend and bully in your own lunchtime but dont get insulting to real patriots...this is why real britain voted brexit.low life.people like you

That's a description of a divided Europe. You do understand that those people died fighting eventually culminated in peace for us all? So that you, who like 99.9% of people alive now in this country, never had to see a minute of war like that. Do you think your family would be proud that they made the ultimate sacrifice to bring peace to Europe, and the likes of you want to rip their legacy to shreds?

Who fought alongside us in WW2? Belgium, Poland, Latvia, France, Greece, Netherlands, Denmark, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and others. United together. There are men in there 10th decade in those countries still suffering PTSD. Those who were lucky enough to make it through. Yet the likes of you are just crapping on their legacy by trying to evoke some kind of blitz spirit that you never lived through. At worst a few of you might have suffered rationing. Well, guess what, Captain f**king Mainwaring, you might just go back to the good old days on that one.

You know what veterans think of this? Real veterans, not those who might have been born during or just after the war? From www.forces.net:

RAF veteran Harry Leslie Smith said:

"Britain is stronger in Europe because it reflects the values my generation fought for in Europe during the Second World War."

D-Day veteran and former Royal Marine Patrick Churchill warned:

"If it breaks or we are not in that union, then countries will fall apart.
"The only solution is to bind together, hold together, there we find strength."

Field Marshal Lord Bramall, former chief of the defence staff, said:

"We would be going backwards, not forwards in what we set out to cure after the terrible tragedies of the Second World War."

RAF veteran David Meylan said:

"We sacrificed many, many men in both world wars and this was to establish a peaceful and a prosperous union. We can't sacrifice that now"

You think your father and uncles sacrificed what they did for you to be led by the nose by privileged tossers like Rees-Mogg and Farage?

Here's an entire article by Harry Leslie Smith. He passed recently, as I recall. It should be read in it's entirety, but if you just can't be arsed as it's one of those lefty papers - the Independent - I'll just leave you with the final paragraph:

I have almost a hundred years of lived history pulsing through my blood and memories. So when I tell you that this is the best of times for the one per cent and the worst of times for everyone else, heed my words. It is now time that you gather the spirit of my generation into your hearts to begin the task of rebuilding this country, Europe and the world as it should be. It is time to make our Britain a green and pleasant land for all who live here.

It’s why with the little time I have remaining on this earth, I plan to journey to the refugee hot spots of the world and use my voice to end this crisis and teach people that xenophobia only leads to repression and war. On my 95th birthday, I will toast my longevity with sherry and declare that my last stand as a human being was to not go gently into the good night.

That's a real patriot. Those men who died for peace in Europe are real patriots. Now watch you don't choke on that vomit.