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Thread: Cancel Brexit ?

  1. #1
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    Cancel Brexit ?

    An Analysis of 300 polls now puts Remain firmly ahead, should Brexit now be cancelled.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a4257476.html

    One of the most striking findings is that 204 out of 226 polls since July 2017 have shown Remain ahead, with just seven for Leave, and 15 ties.
    So far this year, just one poll in the series has put Leave ahead, compared to 74 for staying in the EU.
    The results suggest Remain would win a second referendum, but Leave could clinch it given the narrow gap, especially if it ran a better campaign as last time and got supporters out to vote in greater numbers.

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    I don't hold a lot of faith in polls. However, even if I was presented with irrefutable proof that the remain vote would now be the winner, I don't believe that the original result should be overturned. I believe that Brexit must be delivered, but preferably with a withdrawal agreement. Even with a WA, the 2 year transition period would still be a long and bumpy road.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alikado View Post
    An Analysis of 300 polls now puts Remain firmly ahead, should Brexit now be cancelled.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a4257476.html

    One of the most striking findings is that 204 out of 226 polls since July 2017 have shown Remain ahead, with just seven for Leave, and 15 ties.
    So far this year, just one poll in the series has put Leave ahead, compared to 74 for staying in the EU.
    The results suggest Remain would win a second referendum, but Leave could clinch it given the narrow gap, especially if it ran a better campaign as last time and got supporters out to vote in greater numbers.
    Observing some of the facts in the documentary" The Great Hack "it seems the first referendum was heavily influenced by corrupt actions with mass data targeting and other influential misdemeanors .
    Last edited by 2STEPS-IN-FRONT; 09/10/2019 at 05:45 PM.

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    I'm with Jess Phillips on this:

    We’re in this situation because of an absence of honesty. We’re here because for decades we’ve been repeatedly and deliberately deceived about the EU, our role in it, and the true costs and benefits of membership. Many of those lies were born in the diseased, narcissistic mind of the Prime Minister himself, a bored journalist sowing mischief with all the responsibility of a child playing with matches, and as a result we’ve found ourselves in a toxic environment, pointlessly fighting an imaginary enemy while our real problems have for years gone unaddressed.

    Millions of people honestly and fervently believe that leaving the EU will make their lives better because for years politicians, journalists and assorted toxic individuals have assured them that this is the case. They were lying, and they’re still lying, and we can’t hope to get past this until the liars are held to account

    Thing is, now we all know they lied. All of us. Some refuse to say it, but deep down they know. We know on these very pages the idea that Brexit can be in any way positive has been debunked over and over and over. And over.

    It is an exercise in helping billionaires to get richer, played very well by a completely deranged sociopath who screams into MPs faces and has government employees sacked at gunpoint. How low have we sunk when Trump is in the White House and Johnson in Number 10? How easily fooled?

    But maybe, finally, some common sense is breaking through. That and Brexiteers are dying. Most had one foot in the grave back then, Now at least a million have two. And 2 million new voters have come of age. Another reason why Brexiteers are so very against a people's vote.

    It is economic suicide. But I wouldn't say just cancel it. I'd like to, but I think a confirmatory vote is needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2STEPS-IN-FRONT View Post
    Observing some of the facts in the documentary" The Great Hack "it seems the first referendum was heavily influenced by corrupt influences with mass data targeting and other influential misdemeanors .
    That was an excellent documentary. I'd recommend everybody watch it. And the original columns by Carole Cadwalladr. I was astounded when I read those. If anything convinced me that Brexit was a huge mistake, it was her investigation.

    And off topic, Michael Moore's documentary about Trump is a real eye opener too. Not least of all because Obama doesn't come out of it very well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty View Post
    That was an excellent documentary. I'd recommend everybody watch it. And the original columns by Carole Cadwalladr. I was astounded when I read those. If anything convinced me that Brexit was a huge mistake, it was her investigation.

    And off topic, Michael Moore's documentary about Trump is a real eye opener too. Not least of all because Obama doesn't come out of it very well.
    Have to agree ,it has some hard to ignore facts ,I read certain " powers" are trying to get it pulled .

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    Toodles, I really wouldn't trust a word that comes out of Jess Philip's mouth.
    Any woman who insists on calling herself Jess Philips Esq on her own Twitter account, a male title, clearly has issues.
    She spoke very vocally against the inflammatory & provocative language used in parliament yet stated that she '..would stab Corbyn in the front not the back' while rolling up her sleeves and making a fist.
    She has also stated 'I have knocked on 25,000 doors in the past 6 weeks' and acc to her barely anyone is backing Brexit'. Do the maths, it's impossible! Unless of course she never slept, ate, had a toilet break or actually spoke to anyone during those 6 weeks.
    The woman just makes up nonsense as she goes along. She is an embarrassment to women.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bambi275 View Post
    Toodles, I really wouldn't trust a word that comes out of Jess Philip's mouth.
    Any woman who insists on calling herself Jess Philips Esq on her own Twitter account, a male title, clearly has issues.
    She spoke very vocally against the inflammatory & provocative language used in parliament yet stated that she '..would stab Corbyn in the front not the back' while rolling up her sleeves and making a fist.
    She has also stated 'I have knocked on 25,000 doors in the past 6 weeks' and acc to her barely anyone is backing Brexit'. Do the maths, it's impossible! Unless of course she never slept, ate, had a toilet break or actually spoke to anyone during those 6 weeks.
    The woman just makes up nonsense as she goes along. She is an embarrassment to women.

    I still reckon what she said about Brexit was spot on, bambi. I know she's not popular among party members, but I'd back every word of that particular statement.

    Lies upon lies. And a millions of people, mainly through the magic of Murdoch & co, believed it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty View Post
    I still reckon what she said about Brexit was spot on, bambi. I know she's not popular among party members, but I'd back every word of that particular statement.

    Lies upon lies. And a millions of people, mainly through the magic of Murdoch & co, believed it.
    Neither side were squeaky clean.
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    If I remember correctly the world and his wife predicted a remain vote before the referendum.

    The poll that mattered voted out quite clearly and it was then confirmed by parliament and again by the people in a confirmatory vote when they voted overwhelmingly for leave supporting parties.

    Three clear votes for leave is enough for any democrat.

    It might help to convict the MP's who gained their seats by deception.

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    We are where we are for a number of reasons not least of which is the sheer arrogance of the 'liberal elite' in calling for a Referendum which they quite simply couldn't lose.
    Having had that Referendum the same 'liberal elite' has conspired to thwart the wishes of the people at every turn.
    At the heart of this is the tribal system of politics we have in this country. Labour would no more vote for a Conservative deal than ban the singing of the Red Flag at Conference - the same with the Conservatives for any deal brought before the house by Labour.
    Anyone believing there could be any meaningful level of consensus on this matter is quite frankly deluded.

    To constantly harp on about 'lies' and 'liars' making people vote as they did is far too simplistic a view - do those proffering that argument honestly believe it? Are they seriously asking us to believe millions of people were duped into voting as they did?
    Whilst lies or, bending the truth or, being economical with the facts - whatever handle is put upon it had a bearing on the result - the underlying root of why leave won is not simply lies.

    For decades an entire class of people have been ignored by the 'political elite'. Invariably this class inhabits ex-industrial communities with high unemployment and low prospects. Usually these communities have experienced high levels of immigration which hasn't always changed their way of life for the better.
    This discontent has been fanned by the likes of Farage and real anger was expressed in the vote to leave.

    Added to this the 'better offs', the young, the newly affluent property owning classes simply couldn't be arsed to vote and so ...................

    I also fear that if the 'Liberal Elite' believe they have this in the bag then they also, are sadly deluded.
    I believe that the mood of the Electorate is being greatly underestimated and come a General Election Johnson will galvanise those who believe they are disenfranchised against the arrogance of the Liberal Elite.
    Will that be a good thing? Only history will tell.

  20. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazaprop View Post
    We are where we are for a number of reasons not least of which is the sheer arrogance of the 'liberal elite' in calling for a Referendum which they quite simply couldn't lose.
    Having had that Referendum the same 'liberal elite' has conspired to thwart the wishes of the people at every turn.
    At the heart of this is the tribal system of politics we have in this country. Labour would no more vote for a Conservative deal than ban the singing of the Red Flag at Conference - the same with the Conservatives for any deal brought before the house by Labour.
    Anyone believing there could be any meaningful level of consensus on this matter is quite frankly deluded.

    To constantly harp on about 'lies' and 'liars' making people vote as they did is far too simplistic a view - do those proffering that argument honestly believe it? Are they seriously asking us to believe millions of people were duped into voting as they did?
    Whilst lies or, bending the truth or, being economical with the facts - whatever handle is put upon it had a bearing on the result - the underlying root of why leave won is not simply lies.

    For decades an entire class of people have been ignored by the 'political elite'. Invariably this class inhabits ex-industrial communities with high unemployment and low prospects. Usually these communities have experienced high levels of immigration which hasn't always changed their way of life for the better.
    This discontent has been fanned by the likes of Farage and real anger was expressed in the vote to leave.

    Added to this the 'better offs', the young, the newly affluent property owning classes simply couldn't be arsed to vote and so ...................

    I also fear that if the 'Liberal Elite' believe they have this in the bag then they also, are sadly deluded.
    I believe that the mood of the Electorate is being greatly underestimated and come a General Election Johnson will galvanise those who believe they are disenfranchised against the arrogance of the Liberal Elite.
    Will that be a good thing? Only history will tell.


    On your central "lies" point the chestnut often wheeled out by those who lost the intellectual argument, they forget that "the experts" the MP's many of them remainers backed the government's European Union Bill, supported by the Labour leadership, by 498 votes to 114.

    Those experts sat through the debates, tramped the streets and appeared on TV some of them many times a day.

    If they believed they were duped by lies why did they support the government bill.

    If they were still so incensed why did they stand on Brexit supporting manifesto's ?

    The infamous Bus complaint laughed out of court.

  21. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazaprop View Post
    We are where we are for a number of reasons not least of which is the sheer arrogance of the 'liberal elite' in calling for a Referendum which they quite simply couldn't lose.
    Having had that Referendum the same 'liberal elite' has conspired to thwart the wishes of the people at every turn.
    .........

    ...I also fear that if the 'Liberal Elite' believe they have this in the bag then they also, are sadly deluded.
    I believe that the mood of the Electorate is being greatly underestimated and come a General Election Johnson will galvanise those who believe they are disenfranchised against the arrogance of the Liberal Elite.
    Will that be a good thing? Only history will tell.
    I fear that 'Liberal Elite' is a phrase used solely to rail against anything left or centre left. Usually prefaced with 'so called', who exactly are this 'liberal elite'? Is there a 'conservative elite'? Are there 'so called conservative elite' politicians?

    Then you have 'metropolitan elite', which might include a lot of those on the right. Or North London metropolitan elite, which some take as an antisemitic slur.

    I've googled 'liberal elite' and time and again it appears in right wing media as some kind of dog whistle. Say it enough and it's guaranteed to raise the hackles of those who are already conservative. Tell people over and over, then it's followed by those 'left behind'. I've used the phrase myself. Again, who exactly are 'left behind'? It seems those 'left behind' are being told they are 'left behind' by particularly right wing politicians and media. It was used over and over to reach the middle states in Trump's campaign. Places of high unemployment in mining towns or industrial areas that are no longer viable.

    So say 'left behind' enough, and people believe it. And then vote for the very opposite of those traditionally supportive of the working class. Clever politics, but entirely hollow. Has the US rust belt had a surge in employment? Or are they still 'left behind', only rabidly supporting billionaires who have no interest in them?

    Then here, the 'left behind' seem to be in high areas of unemployment that have remained so despite being governed, for 9 years, by those raging again against the 'liberal elite'. Let's assume that the liberal elite in this country are the Labour party. Who aren't really elite in any way. But say it enough and all the troubles of the 'left behind' lie with a party that hasn't been in power for 9 years. Why are they still 'left behind'? Oh well, Gordon Brown...

    Who left them behind, and why, after nine years of government by the kindly, all embracing, never-leave-anyone-behind, right wing, are they still left behind?

    And who, exactly, are the 'liberal elite'?

  22. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    If I remember correctly the world and his wife predicted a remain vote before the referendum.

    The poll that mattered voted out quite clearly and it was then confirmed by parliament and again by the people in a confirmatory vote when they voted overwhelmingly for leave supporting parties.

    Three clear votes for leave is enough for any democrat.

    It might help to convict the MP's who gained their seats by deception.
    There have only been two votes on leaving the Europe, 1975 when the result was an overwhelming result was remain and 2016 when a narrow majority voted Leave. At no time did anybody vote for No Deal, Leave was to trigger Article 50 to Negotiate Leaving Terms.

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  24. #15
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    All I know is they are doing a great job of killing business off, I have so many suppliers calling me asking if a need anything and am I busy as they are really struggling. I can see a melt down coming very soon.

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