How should Transgender people be treated in Sports events

[said]

There are many complaints from leading sportspeople that the inclusion of Transgender people in sports, particularly women's sports - gives them an unfair advantage. It is a highly controversial issue and indeed, the results of women's events, graphically shows this. The effects on male sports are not as noticeable.

Should there be a separate section for Transgender people?

[Alikado]

Physically women are the weaker sex, transgender are either physiocally freaks of nature or people who have made a choice because of the way they feel, they cannot fully compete with men physically but can often beat women. Perhaps they should be treated like the disabled and have their own competitions with different classes or be yet another division in the Para Olympics etc.

[roving-eye]

sport should only be open to the sex people were born with .ie man has a willy...woman has a fanny.. end of

[said]

sport should only be open to the sex people were born with .ie man has a willy...woman has a fanny.. end of

Well! That is straight to the point! I think many sportswomen would agree with you.

[said]

Physically women are the weaker sex, transgender are either physiocally freaks of nature or people who have made a choice because of the way they feel, they cannot fully compete with men physically but can often beat women. Perhaps they should be treated like the disabled and have their own competitions with different classes or be yet another division in the Para Olympics etc.

There are many people who believe that Transgenders should compete in their category. But a large number of Transgender sports people, particularly in Germany, had no choice in this issue.

[Toodles McGinty]

I thought about this at some length when Martina Navratilova presented a documentary about it. She argued that women who were previously men shouldn't compete with natural born women. She caused quite a stir in the Trans community, apparently.

I don't think that trans women compete with other women on a level playing field. OK, they may be taking hormones that make them a lot weaker than men. But they've grown up with the muscle structure and strength of a man. They have the skeleton of a man. That doesn't change.

If nothing else that gives them a longer reach, stride, larger lung capacity etc. Even if the authorities check testosterone levels, those natural advantages don't go away. I don't know if the answer is to have trans events. But there is no way it is fair for trans women to compete with natural born women.

[said]

I thought about this at some length when Martina Navratilova presented a documentary about it. She argued that women who were previously men shouldn't compete with natural born women. She caused quite a stir in the Trans community, apparently.

I don't think that trans women compete with other women on a level playing field. OK, they may be taking hormones that make them a lot weaker than men. But they've grown up with the muscle structure and strength of a man. They have the skeleton of a man. That doesn't change.

If nothing else that gives them a longer reach, stride, larger lung capacity etc. Even if the authorities check testosterone levels, those natural advantages don't go away. I don't know if the answer is to have trans events. But there is no way it is fair for trans women to compete with natural born women.

I do agree with you - also, the transgenders in sports affect both male and female sports people.

But here's the thing - Transgenderism was practically unheard of in the early 1950's - but body transformed athletes have been taking part in sports, in the form of their own birth gender, for almost seventy years. i.e. Women who had become more masculine competed in women's sports while men who had become more effeminate competed in men's sports.

[Toodles McGinty]

I do agree with you - also, the transgenders in sports affect both male and female sports people.

But here's the thing - Transgenderism was practically unheard of in the early 1950's - but body transformed athletes have been taking part in sports, in the form of their own birth gender, for almost seventy years. i.e. Women who had become more masculine competed in women's sports while men who had become more effeminate competed in men's sports.

I think transgender people have existed as long as humanity has been around. No doubt quite happily until, as usual, Christianity reared its ugly head and decided it was a terrible thing. Another 'abomination' to strike terror into the uneducated masses. Another 'sin' to control the general population.

It isn't exactly unknown in nature, either.

I wouldn't say it was unheard of in the early 50s. But that was when surgical techniques had advanced to make a physical external transition. Probably about the same time, in sports, that scientists in Eastern Europe realised they could pump athletes with hormones to enhance their performance too. I imagine an awful lot of people have had the initial transition entirely without their consent in those terms. Thankfully we have drug testing now, to prevent such crimes.

In society in general, being transgender shouldn't make any difference at all. In sport though, that is different. In many sports there are separate divisions, classes or weights to stop massive advantages. This should apply to transgender athletes too. In every other walk of life, inclusivity is positive. But in sports, it's like a teenager playing against 7 year olds. Simply unfair.

[Theatrics]

I can think of a few examples of men transitioning into women and then competing in women's sports, which, as Navratilova said is a form of cheating. Never heard of any women transitioning into men and competing in men's sports, anyone know of any?

[said]

I can think of a few examples of men transitioning into women and then competing in women's sports, which, as Navratilova said is a form of cheating. Never heard of any women transitioning into men and competing in men's sports, anyone know of any?

They do - but although they compete, they are not successful.
https://www.ranker.com/list/famous-t...-athletes/lgbt

[said]

There is a lot of confusion as to when Transgenderism began. This is because prior to 1950, women would dress as men in order to go to war, or women would adopt a male persona to have their books accepted or to appear on stage - all of which had always been male dominated. There were also drag queen's who dressed as over exaggerated females in order to make fun of the male gender. Most certainly, the only factual references appear in the late 1950's.

This would be because there were no hormone blocking drugs prior to this time, and surgery would not have been available. So it is highly unlikely that transgenderism would have even been considered as such.

You speak of the German experiments as if they are in the past - no, these go on in the world today! Many under governmental consent. The experiments began after Germany lost the last War and needed to find some credibility in its global status. Sports were considered the best option but they needed to excel.. Drug testing is an obstacle, but part of these experiments involve finding ways to circumvent drug testing.

Many of those experimented on were around twelve years old. Even today - if a young child of eleven in the UK, expressed a need to become a different gender - they can be taken to clinics and placed on hormone blocking drugs, and they often are. In the USA, a child as young as three was said to have been put on these drugs. (That was the States - so unlikely to be true)

Transgenderism has been accepted in society, it is no more odd than those claiming to be goths, or druids etc., But under competition between male and female, a line does have to be drawn if sports are to be fair.

[*concerned*]

Its unfair, very unfair !

You only need to look at the success of Caster Semenya, the South African MALE/FEMALE middle distance runner and is actually married to a female

[AdmiralAckbar]

I think transgender people have existed as long as humanity has been around. No doubt quite happily until, as usual, Christianity reared its ugly head and decided it was a terrible thing. Another 'abomination' to strike terror into the uneducated masses. Another 'sin' to control the general population.

It isn't exactly unknown in nature, either.

I wouldn't say it was unheard of in the early 50s. But that was when surgical techniques had advanced to make a physical external transition. Probably about the same time, in sports, that scientists in Eastern Europe realised they could pump athletes with hormones to enhance their performance too. I imagine an awful lot of people have had the initial transition entirely without their consent in those terms. Thankfully we have drug testing now, to prevent such crimes.

In society in general, being transgender shouldn't make any difference at all. In sport though, that is different. In many sports there are separate divisions, classes or weights to stop massive advantages. This should apply to transgender athletes too. In every other walk of life, inclusivity is positive. But in sports, it's like a teenager playing against 7 year olds. Simply unfair.

Perhaps a tad unfair to single out just one religion to make your point.

[Alikado]

Its unfair, very unfair !

You only need to look at the success of Caster Semenya, the South African MALE/FEMALE middle distance runner and is actually married to a female

But claims to be Female to compete so she can win. Also same sex marriage is permissable in many parts of the world so we are back to square one.

[Toodles McGinty]

Perhaps a tad unfair to single out just one religion to make your point.

Perhaps, but before the spread of Christianity, such people were pretty much accepted since ancient times. You only need to see the damage Christianity has done in Africa, the trashing of African culture to be replaced by a long list of 'things you shouldn't do'. Shouldn't wear, shouldn't say, shouldn't drink, shouldn't eat. As with most organised religion, the point is control. It's never about freedom, is it?

Anywhere in the world where Christianity has ridden in there, to ostensibly 'save' the indigenous population. Islam too, only Christianity had a good 800 year start. And Judaism. They all have similar roots and prophets. You've only got to look at the Middle East to see how wonderful religion is.

My point is, before this particular form of mind control became prevalent, transexual, transvestite, whichever personal freedom humanity had, existed happily until people were told otherwise.