Middle east crisis.

[Hector]

Waving not drowning DR waving not drowning.

I wonder how a poetry thread would go down?

I'd start with the John Donne one about the cleric wrestling with his God. (After your Stevie Smith.)

[Hamble]

I wonder how a poetry thread would go down?

I'd start with the John Donne one about the cleric wrestling with his God. (After your Stevie Smith.)

You must post a link.

[sandGroundZero]

Only acts of war get immediate coverage.
Acts towards peace are going on.

Israeli leftwing activists protest against government policy
regarding Palestinians in East Jerusalem Photograph: Abir Sultan/EPA

The fight for Sheikh Jarrah, a predominantly Palestinian neighbourhood in occupied East Jerusalem bordering both the Old City and West Jerusalem, touches on three of the most important issues of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute: control of the holy city, the rights of Palestinians living in Israeli-occupied territory, and the Palestinian right to return. Israeli settlers have moved into some of its properties, saying they were owned by Jews before the war of 1948 surrounding Israel’s creation. Israeli law allows Jews to reclaim property in East Jerusalem, a right denied to Palestinians who lost lands and homes in the same conflict in other parts of the city. Sheikh Jarrah’s Palestinian residents say that the land had been guaranteed to their families by Jordan, which offered them the homes in exchange for giving up their refugee status. Documents presented to the court on Monday suggested Jordan was interrupted in registering the claims by the war of 1967, in which Israel seized the Old City, along with East Jerusalem and the West Bank. — Judge proposes compromise to settle dispute over home ownership with Israeli settlers in Sheikh Jarrah

new documents presented to the Court

[Hamble]

Israeli leftwing activists protest against government policy
regarding Palestinians in East Jerusalem Photograph: Abir Sultan/EPA

The fight for Sheikh Jarrah, a predominantly Palestinian neighbourhood in occupied East Jerusalem bordering both the Old City and West Jerusalem, touches on three of the most important issues of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute: control of the holy city, the rights of Palestinians living in Israeli-occupied territory, and the Palestinian right to return. Israeli settlers have moved into some of its properties, saying they were owned by Jews before the war of 1948 surrounding Israel’s creation. Israeli law allows Jews to reclaim property in East Jerusalem, a right denied to Palestinians who lost lands and homes in the same conflict in other parts of the city. Sheikh Jarrah’s Palestinian residents say that the land had been guaranteed to their families by Jordan, which offered them the homes in exchange for giving up their refugee status. Documents presented to the court on Monday suggested Jordan was interrupted in registering the claims by the war of 1967, in which Israel seized the Old City, along with East Jerusalem and the West Bank. — Judge proposes compromise to settle dispute over home ownership with Israeli settlers in Sheikh Jarrah

new documents presented to the Court

That is a very fair compromise.

The BBC report gives a bit more detail.

Quote
"Monday's hearing is the culmination of nearly 30 years of legal proceedings, which began when the land's registered Jewish owners sought to evict the Palestinian residents for non-payment of rent.

The Palestinians claimed they were the rightful owners of the property, which they said had been guaranteed them by Jordan when it settled the families there after it occupied the area in the Arab-Israel war of 1948.

The Palestinians' claim was rejected by a Jerusalem court in 2020 and the eviction order upheld.

Palestinians see the case as part of a wider move by Israeli settlers to take over Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem, which Palestinians claim as the capital of a hoped-for independent state.

In 2003, rights to land where they live in Sheikh Jarrah were bought by a Jewish organisation which plans to develop the area for Jewish settlement."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-58024060

I wonder if the ruling will include back rent pay to the Jewish Housing association as the tenants apparently have not paid any rent for years.

[sandGroundZero]

That is a very fair compromise.

The BBC report gives a bit more detail. | Quote

"Monday's hearing is the culmination of nearly 30 years of legal proceedings, which began when the land's registered Jewish owners sought to evict the Palestinian residents for non-payment of rent.
The Palestinians claimed they were the rightful owners of the property, which they said had been guaranteed them by Jordan when it settled the families there after it occupied the area in the Arab-Israel war of 1948.
The Palestinians' claim was rejected by a Jerusalem court in 2020 and the eviction order upheld.
Palestinians see the case as part of a wider move by Israeli settlers to take over Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem, which Palestinians claim as the capital of a hoped-for independent state.
In 2003, rights to land where they live in Sheikh Jarrah were bought by a Jewish organisation which plans to develop the area for Jewish settlement."

I wonder if the ruling will include back rent pay to the Jewish Housing association as the tenants apparently have not paid any rent for years.

Israeli law allows that Jewish Israelis may reclaim property from before 1948.
Why is it non-Jewish Palestinians displaced by a succession of wars are not permitted the same right?

A Palestinian refugee holds up a key allegedly from his house in Beersheba, in southern Israel,
during a rally in Rafah, Gaza Strip, May 2013 (photo credit: Abed Rahim Khatib/Flash90)

“As for the refugee issue…,” said Husam Zomlot of President Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah party, according to a recording posted to Soundcloud and published by Tablet Magazine.
“How do you want me to sign a deal with my own hands that will compromise the rights of two thirds of the nation….How? How am I going to build cohesion and eternal peace on such a compromise? The big question is why do I have to compromise?”

— J Street crowd applauds Palestinian right of return

[Hamble]

Israeli law allows that Jewish Israelis may reclaim property from before 1948.
Why is it non-Jewish Palestinians displaced by a succession of wars are not permitted the same right?

A Palestinian refugee holds up a key allegedly from his house in Beersheba, in southern Israel,
during a rally in Rafah, Gaza Strip, May 2013 (photo credit: Abed Rahim Khatib/Flash90)

“As for the refugee issue…,” said Husam Zomlot of President Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah party, according to a recording posted to Soundcloud and published by Tablet Magazine.
“How do you want me to sign a deal with my own hands that will compromise the rights of two thirds of the nation….How? How am I going to build cohesion and eternal peace on such a compromise? The big question is why do I have to compromise?”

— J Street crowd applauds Palestinian right of return

Three separate problems there.
1.Sheik Jarrah is a Real Estate argument.
Just because the area was traditionally Arab owned before the State of Israel does not mean legally owned Jewish buildings should be returned to Arab owners.
It is not 'reclaimed land'.

2. Arabs are not allowed to 'reclaim' land in Israel.
Jews can not claim land in Palestine.
If Arabs sell land to Jews they would be executed.

3. The Law of Return can only be equal after partition.
Palestinians will then be able to return to a free liberated Palestine.

[sandGroundZero]

Israeli law allows that Jewish Israelis may reclaim property from before 1948.
Why is it non-Jewish Palestinians displaced by a succession of wars are not permitted the same right?

Three separate problems there. Sheik Jarrah is a Real Estate argument. … Arabs are not allowed to 'reclaim' land in Israel. … The Law of Return can only be equal after partition. …

It may be that the recently installed Israeli administration has a PR problem and /or it has come under pressure from the Biden administration. The Sheik Jarrah real estate argument illustrates the bias inherent in the Israeli legal system. It has been repeatedly claimed that Israel's non-Jewish population enjoys a legal status not inferior to that of Jewish Israelis. This in spite of for one example, Basic Law: Israel as the Nation State of the Jewish People.

Ultimately, in modern times, if you don’t destroy or expel people who have no sovereignty or have meaningless and fraudulent sovereignty, they will rebel again and again.

— Is a Divided Israel Turning Into Yugoslavia?

[Desert Region]

Waving not drowning DR waving not drowning.

Hi H, out of reading this article from a few weeks ago,

Opinion writer Bari Weiss quits NYT, says colleagues called her ‘Nazi, racist’

https://www.timesofisrael.com/opinio...r-nazi-racist/

I came upon this book,



"How to Fight Anti-Semitism is a powerful tool for anyone trying to understand the renewed power of antisemitism in today’s world. Weiss asks her readers to confront the reality of antisemitism today and to define how it plays out differently on both sides of the political spectrum. Weiss is at her best when she acts as a spotlight, offering clear and usable definitions for an ancient force that often eludes simple characterizations. She explains that antisemitism is not just another form of racism. Rather, it is a conspiracy theory, a contagious thought virus that “turns Jews into the symbol of whatever a given civilization defines as its most sinister and threatening qualities." In this way, antisemitism is not just a threat to the Jews, it is a threat to all people. Any society that tolerates lies, hatred, and conspiracy theories will end up embracing other forms of racism and discrimination. In the end, Weiss’s answer is a two-pronged approach: 1) think clearly and have the courage to stand up against antisemitism and 2) double down on being Jewish and embrace all of the wisdom, beauty, and power of Jewish life."

https://www.jewishbookcouncil.org/bo...tism#body-text

I'm not trying to tell you what books you should read , but I thought it could prove useful to you .

[Hamble]

Israeli law allows that Jewish Israelis may reclaim property from before 1948.
Why is it non-Jewish Palestinians displaced by a succession of wars are not permitted the same right?

[tr][td]

It may be that the recently installed Israeli administration has a PR problem and /or it has come under pressure from the Biden administration. The Sheik Jarrah real estate argument illustrates the bias inherent in the Israeli legal system. It has been repeatedly claimed that Israel's non-Jewish population enjoys a legal status not inferior to that of Jewish Israelis. This in spite of for one example, Basic Law: Israel as the Nation State of the Jewish People.

Ultimately, in modern times, if you don’t destroy or expel people who have no sovereignty or have meaningless and fraudulent sovereignty, they will rebel again and again.

— Is a Divided Israel Turning Into Yugoslavia?

No it does not.
The West Bank is only in Israel in a one State solution otherwise it will be in Palestine.

Jewish landlords owned and have proof of ownership of homes in Sheikh Jarrah (pre 1948) for which Palestinian Arabs rented until they stopped paying rent and were served eviction notices.

Israeli Palestinians who live in Israel(over 2 million) have equal rights
if they have documents of proof.

Israel's laws allow Jews to file claims over property in East Jerusalem which they owned prior to 1948, but reject Palestinian claims over property in Israel proper which they owned.

Palestinians want land and homes back from which their family's sold to Jews or fled in war and when other Arab countries attacked Israel in an Arab coalition primarily comprising Jordan, Syria and UAR Egypt.

Palestine after partition will have all Palestine agreed.

[Hamble]

Hi H, out of reading this article from a few weeks ago,

Opinion writer Bari Weiss quits NYT, says colleagues called her ‘Nazi, racist’

https://www.timesofisrael.com/opinio...r-nazi-racist/

I came upon this book,



"How to Fight Anti-Semitism is a powerful tool for anyone trying to understand the renewed power of antisemitism in today’s world. Weiss asks her readers to confront the reality of antisemitism today and to define how it plays out differently on both sides of the political spectrum. Weiss is at her best when she acts as a spotlight, offering clear and usable definitions for an ancient force that often eludes simple characterizations. She explains that antisemitism is not just another form of racism. Rather, it is a conspiracy theory, a contagious thought virus that “turns Jews into the symbol of whatever a given civilization defines as its most sinister and threatening qualities." In this way, antisemitism is not just a threat to the Jews, it is a threat to all people. Any society that tolerates lies, hatred, and conspiracy theories will end up embracing other forms of racism and discrimination. In the end, Weiss’s answer is a two-pronged approach: 1) think clearly and have the courage to stand up against antisemitism and 2) double down on being Jewish and embrace all of the wisdom, beauty, and power of Jewish life."

https://www.jewishbookcouncil.org/bo...tism#body-text

I'm not trying to tell you what books you should read , but I thought it could prove useful to you .

I have not seen that one thank you.

[Hamble]

[QUOTE=sandGroundZero;6780283][SIZE=3]

I am not one of those Jewish people who believe the end of antisemitism in Palestine the Diaspora and peace in Israel will be achieved by giving Hamas and the P.A
what they want apart from a State of their own.

Hamas and Palestine antisemitism threats to annihilate Jews and Israel
is abhorrent.

Ignoring the warning signs is doubly abhorrent!


https://unwatch.org/report-un-teache...s-of-israelis/

[Hamble]

[QUOTE=sandGroundZero;6780283][SIZE=3][COLOR="#696969"]I
Who funds UNWRA?

https://www.unrwa.org/who-funds-unrwa

[Toodles McGinty]

Good grief.

350-odd posts and you've not got this sorted yet???

*tut*

[Hamble]

Good grief.

350-odd posts and you've not got this sorted yet???

*tut*

Years ago any discussion always ended up posters falling out threatening never to post again and the thread being closed.

We have all moved on magnificently

[Desert Region]

Years ago any discussion always ended up posters falling out threatening never to post again and the thread being closed.

We have all moved on magnificently

What was that thread called that went well in excess of 500 posts and was threatening to hit a thousand! Oh, was it "¡No pasarán!" or something like that? As best as I recall the OP was Nomad, but it's continuation was fuelled by that notorious poster who was always arguing with you and shippy about any Jewish concerns - before that poster got herself banned, of course.

N.B. If they were back posting on the forum, they'd be certain to have already popped back up on this thread, wouldn't they?