Transport Secretary admits new cycle lanes are leaving roads 'backed up' with traffic

[The PNP]

I should have realised that trying to talk sense to a blinkered bigot like you would be a waste of time, and regardless of anything, it would always revert to the person not on the bike being at fault. Let me put it another way, if a cyclist rides up inside of a truck, he/she deserves everything they get.

Foolishly riding up the inside is one thing, unless you're on a clearly marked cycle-lane.....Being overtaken by a 30 tonner that unexpectedly swings a left and kills you is another. Because that's tragically what the cement truck did to the unfortunate lady in the case I quoted.

At end of day, it doesn't get us anywhere by repeatedly pointing the finger at drivers or riders - when poor infrastructure is the real villain . A more progressive caring society, would have prioritised vital junction improvements long ago. E.g. by putting kerbing in place separating bikes from motor vehicles, to prevent any chance of an accident.

[local]

Foolishly riding up the inside is one thing, unless you're on a clearly marked cycle-lane.....Being overtaken by a 30 tonner that unexpectedly swings a left and kills you is another. Because that's tragically what the cement truck did to the unfortunate lady in the case I quoted.

At end of day, it doesn't get us anywhere by repeatedly pointing the finger at drivers or riders - when poor infrastructure is the real villain . A more progressive caring society, would have prioritised vital junction improvements long ago. E.g. by putting kerbing in place separating bikes from motor vehicles, to prevent any chance of an accident.

To be frank a caring society would have banned us bike riders from public roads years ago looking at the deaths and injuries.

Clearly, there isn't the room to install many separate and JOINED UP cycle paths, which is why this frankly daft situation will continue for the foreseeable future whilst you campaign for unicorn lanes that you know will never come.

[Little Londoner]

You actually think kerbing would do anything to stop a vehicle you only have to look at Pavement parking now to know it would be a waste of money (like most of your schemes) unless kerbing becomes a wall and that isn't going to happen.

As for pointing the finger that is all you have done since you came on here. As far as YOU are concerned ALL drivers are equally at fault we are all filed in the same folder in your head.

Any cyclist who rides up the side of any large vehicle or windowless large van deserves all they get. If the cyclist is already there or overtaken by a vehicle and it turns then yes the driver deserves all he gets.

[The PNP]

A) To be frank a caring society would have banned us bike riders from public roads years ago looking at the deaths and injuries.

B) Clearly, there isn't the room to install many separate and JOINED UP cycle paths, which is why this frankly daft situation will continue for the foreseeable future whilst you campaign for unicorn lanes that you know will never come.

A) That's a rather unrealistic solution, but it's one sure way to reduce casualties. Of course, banning cars would be another approach......

B) Well, it's been done elsewhere, and I believe it's a practical possibility here. Like the saying goes, where there's a will there's a way.

[The PNP]

You actually think kerbing would do anything to stop a vehicle you only have to look at Pavement parking now to know it would be a waste of money (like most of your schemes) unless kerbing becomes a wall and that isn't going to happen.

Kerbs seem to keep trucks from mounting pavements at junctions and squashing waiting pedestrians. I see no reason why kerbs wouldn't be equally effective in protecting riders.

[silver fox]

Kerbs seem to keep trucks from mounting pavements at junctions and squashing waiting pedestrians. I see no reason why kerbs wouldn't be equally effective in protecting riders.

Face a few facts, there isn’t the space on most of town roads and streets, unless you restrict and/or close roads to provide a very tiny usage.

We all know in your nirvana the private car would vanish, but it’s very much the private car which brings business and people into town, the bike will not, can not, carry that much needed business and people.

Please don’t blabber on about public transport, particularly at the moment.

[sandGroundZero]

"Face a few facts, there isn’t the space on most of town roads and streets, unless you restrict and/or close roads to provide a very tiny usage."
"We all know in your nirvana the private car would vanish, but it’s very much the private car which brings business and people into town, the bike will not, can not, carry that much needed business and people." — post #68

Southport's (that is, Sefton's) cycle lanes cannot fairly be blamed for the plight of town centre businesses. As things stand, Emergency Active Travel Routes in our town cannot be said to constrict the flow of motor vehicles.

So, what is the root of this furore?

"Please don’t blabber on about public transport, particularly at the moment." — post #68

There appears to be inordinate resentment that someone has the effrontery to advocate for better cycle (& pedestrian) infrastructure.
Is it that a supposed challenge to motorists' prerogatives is the real irritant?

[local]

I suppose you could try putting deliveries, emergency services,builders,babies,pharmacy supplies,district nurses, Doctors,the elderly and infirm etc etc on bikes

[silver fox]

"Face a few facts, there isn’t the space on most of town roads and streets, unless you restrict and/or close roads to provide a very tiny usage."
"We all know in your nirvana the private car would vanish, but it’s very much the private car which brings business and people into town, the bike will not, can not, carry that much needed business and people." — post #68

Southport's (that is, Sefton's) cycle lanes cannot fairly be blamed for the plight of town centre businesses. As things stand, Emergency Active Travel Routes in our town cannot be said to constrict the flow of motor vehicles.

So, what is the root of this furore?

"Please don’t blabber on about public transport, particularly at the moment." — post #68

There appears to be inordinate resentment that someone has the effrontery to advocate for better cycle (& pedestrian) infrastructure.
Is it that a supposed challenge to motorists' prerogatives is the real irritant?

If we had the space to accommodate cycle lanes without redesign of our roads, bring it on, having said that there is little hope of even getting cyclists to use the facilities they have.

Today one of my now rare forays into town, stopped at the traffic lights on London St, waiting to turn right onto Hoghton St, born again idiot rides out of Chapel St, front wheel up in the air, across the junction onto Hoghton St in the middle of the road, lights had just changed traffic moving off, this pillock rode across in front of my car.

I was awake, saw the fool and braked, but just tell me what would be the reaction if I had run over this moron.

This is exactly what motorists get sick of.

I am well aware that cycle lanes alone are not and will not be the main cause of the decline in town centre business, but it certainly won’t help.

[sandGroundZero]

It is unfortunately true that reckless cyclists create hazard and bring other cyclists into disrepute. But of course the same can be said of motorists.

The legacy of road (& town) design favours motor vehicles to the severe detriment of cyclists and pedestrians owing not least to a post-1945 shift favouring the expansion of private motor vehicle ownership which, sadly, scarcely acknowledged different "modes" of travel. Government policies now recognize a necessity to rectify that gross imbalance. Many motorists' attitudes are lagging behind.

I am struck by vehement assertions that cycling is impossibly impractical. I well recall the cycle sheds which were a feature of large workplaces. They gradually became redundant through the 1970s. Many times in my life I've commuted by bicycle miles to work, notwithstanding inclement weather. Times changed …and they are changing again, now. [If only I'd had the luxury of a modern battery-powered bicycle!]

There was a time when our large urban areas were really an agglomeration of local communities, each with the necessities of daily life close at hand. Such may be our future.

[Alikado]

If we had the space to accommodate cycle lanes without redesign of our roads, bring it on, having said that there is little hope of even getting cyclists to use the facilities they have.

Today one of my now rare forays into town, stopped at the traffic lights on London St, waiting to turn right onto Hoghton St, born again idiot rides out of Chapel St, front wheel up in the air, across the junction onto Hoghton St in the middle of the road, lights had just changed traffic moving off, this pillock rode across in front of my car.

I was awake, saw the fool and braked, but just tell me what would be the reaction if I had run over this moron.

This is exactly what motorists get sick of.

I am well aware that cycle lanes alone are not and will not be the main cause of the decline in town centre business, but it certainly won’t help.

It should be compulsory for cyclists and disability scooter riders to use cycle lanes where provided but without rigorous enforcement it won't happen. Personally I think all cyclists, disability scooter riders etc should have insurance. I also think that Queens Rd should have been made one way as should Albert Rd which also have had a cycle lane.

[The PNP]

Is it that a supposed challenge to motorists' prerogatives is the real irritant?

Could well be so.....I'm sure a percentage of motorists believe their chosen mode of transport somehow gives them more 'right' to be there, than other 'lesser' road users have. An attitude that manifests itself in the form of bullying /honking others out of their way. And by way of objecting to any and every attempt to level the playing field, e.g. when proposals emerge for a cycle-lane, pedestrianised area, 20mph zone, etc.

[silver fox]

It is unfortunately true that reckless cyclists create hazard and bring other cyclists into disrepute. But of course the same can be said of motorists.

The legacy of road (& town) design favours motor vehicles to the severe detriment of cyclists and pedestrians owing not least to a post-1945 shift favouring the expansion of private motor vehicle ownership which, sadly, scarcely acknowledged different "modes" of travel. Government policies now recognize a necessity to rectify that gross imbalance. Many motorists' attitudes are lagging behind.

I am struck by vehement assertions that cycling is impossibly impractical. I well recall the cycle sheds which were a feature of large workplaces. They gradually became redundant through the 1970s. Many times in my life I've commuted by bicycle miles to work, notwithstanding inclement weather. Times changed …and they are changing again, now. [If only I'd had the luxury of a modern battery-powered bicycle!]

There was a time when our large urban areas were really an agglomeration of local communities, each with the necessities of daily life close at hand. Such may be our future.

Back in the day people lived and worked within their own area, that is far from the case now, people can and do travel for work, shopping and entertainment.

The days when everyone went to school, worked, lived and died without barely leaving the area, are long gone.

[sandGroundZero]

"Back in the people lived and worked within their own area, that is far from the case now, people can and do travel for work, shopping and entertainment. | The days when everyone went to school, worked, lived and died without barely leaving the area, are long gone. " — post #75

Long gone? Or, just recently out of fashion?

[silver fox]

"Back in the people lived and worked within their own area, that is far from the case now, people can and do travel for work, shopping and entertainment. | The days when everyone went to school, worked, lived and died without barely leaving the area, are long gone. " — post #75

Long gone? Or, just recently out of fashion?

Hardly recent, even just for myself, I grew up in a village, public transport best described as occasional, for some time I was restricted to jobs I could get to by bike, 1963 passed my test, got a car and was able to travel to a better job with better prospects and pay, I was certainly not the first to do that by a long way.