Victoria Park

[said]

I went down to the Victoria Park today - I did not stop long as I was just picking someone up - but I did have a quick walk around. As I was leaving by the exit on Rotten Row, I saw a notice on the gate put there by the Park Charity asking for funding to be donated for the upkeep of the park.

If the Park had been given back to the people - I could understand that and would have sympathised - but, am I not right in saying that the Charity has sub let this Park to the guy who owns the Caravan Park on the understanding that he is to maintain it? Isn't that why the people of Southport find the Park closed so often due to this agreement to allow the Caravans to take over the Park for certain weeks of the year?

Victoria Park has been mis-managed for years. Why is there a substantial office block built in the park? Why is there a massive shed been built, two substantial buildings on what is in reality just a small park? Stored in that shed are a number of vehicles, including four by fours and a boat? What is the purpose of these - it is hardly Knowsley Safari Park? Why don't they sell off these if they are so short of funds, they are not needed for this little park.I can understand the brand new grass cutting tractor, perhaps. Yes the grass has been kept cut - but many of the shrubs and flowers have gone, along with natural habitats. There are a few young trees alongside the walkways, creating a neat clinical park. But the areas subject to marsh have not been confronted. One day of rain soon leaves the whole grassy area as a complete marshland with footpaths flooded. That was one reason why so many shrubs were placed in the park to absorb some of the water. A tarmac pathway does not allow for water to drain - a path should be laid as a soakaway instead, do you agree?

At one time, dogs were not allowed in this park. Then later, dogs could be allowed but on a lead. Now, hardly any dogs are on leads. It is not as if the people walking dogs have just one pet to see to - the new dog breeding dog owners walk a PACK of dogs, off leads, and while I was present for such a short while - there was no fewer than four novel dog breeders with seventeen dogs?? Talking of which- I thought dogs were banned on the beach as well, from March to September?

[Ceam]

We went there as a family today, First time we've been near a public space for about a year. Have got to say it was lovely and quite unlike other parks in the area. Apart from the kids play area which we avoided.

Lovely smell of fresh cut grass and plenty of fresh air.

There where load of dog walkers but everyone where happily getting on with their day. Not a single unsightly mess was spotted. Only slightly annoying thing where the lads thinking the RC track was a mountain bike run. Managed to bit my lip and walk on though.

Even had ourselves a lovely if rather expensive ice cream. yum yum. £3 for a 99!

[salus.populi]

but, am I not right in saying that the Charity has sub let this Park to the guy who owns the Caravan Park on the understanding that he is to maintain it?

I don't know. Where did you get that information/misapprehension from?
I'd have thought that the Flower Show Company rent it out to the Caravan Club on a few occasions to get income. Why would an organisation that hires it for a few weekends a year pay for the park's maintenance?
It's the best maintained park in the town (apart from the end that's still under full council control) and hosts a number of events that attract thousands of visitors so I, for one, am perfectly happy with the arrangements. I'd hardly call it mis-management.

[joan ofarc]

The park is run as a business. The sheds etc are for equipment relating to the Flower Show and othere events.The building is for administrative offices.
There are a number of events held at that venue and all cost money to put on. No doubt the lockdown has seriously affected income, as is the case with most charities.
I never use that park except for going to the Flower Show so closures don't affect me but they are only a small percentage of the year. I know it exercises some people greatly but I'd rather see a well maintained park open for less than a badly maintained one open all year round.
As for drainage etc I can only say that things seem to have greatly improved on past years, when the Flower Show was a quagmire if it rained. The last time it was on the Friday was a total washout and the grass survived quite well. All was dry by the next day.

[said]

I don't know. Where did you get that information/misapprehension from?
I'd have thought that the Flower Show Company rent it out to the Caravan Club on a few occasions to get income. Why would an organisation that hires it for a few weekends a year pay for the park's maintenance?
It's the best maintained park in the town (apart from the end that's still under full council control) and hosts a number of events that attract thousands of visitors so I, for one, am perfectly happy with the arrangements. I'd hardly call it mis-management.

A hundred year old covenant with the people of Southport and Birkdale is being broken left right and centre. And Sefton Council’s Bootle bureaucracy has simply been turning a blind eye.
The Victoria Park was gifted to the people of Birkdale and Southport for their enjoyment back in 1898?.
When the Southport Council was created, the responsibility for maintaining this gift transferred over? and eventually it was handed over to Sefton. When the Southport Flower Show was privatised, back in the ?1986, a contract was set up through which the Flower Show company promised to maintain the park for public enjoyment in exchange for being permitted to close the Park to public access ?for a total of 80 days per year.
?
Once preciously guarded, (the former ?Birkdale Council refused a clubhouse for the Croquet Club in 1902 because they did not have the power to allow private clubs exclusive use of any part of a public recreation ground under the
terms of the ?Southport and Cheshire Lines Extension Railway Act of 1882.?) Victoria Park has now apparently been gifted to Mammon.? by T. Dawson

[Alikado]

We went there as a family today, First time we've been near a public space for about a year. Have got to say it was lovely and quite unlike other parks in the area. Apart from the kids play area which we avoided.

Lovely smell of fresh cut grass and plenty of fresh air.

There where load of dog walkers but everyone where happily getting on with their day. Not a single unsightly mess was spotted. Only slightly annoying thing where the lads thinking the RC track was a mountain bike run. Managed to bit my lip and walk on though.

Even had ourselves a lovely if rather expensive ice cream. yum yum. £3 for a 99!

HOW MUCH !!!!
You've been robbed good style!

[salus.populi]

A hundred year old covenant with the people of Southport and Birkdale is being broken left right and centre. And Sefton Council’s Bootle bureaucracy has simply been turning a blind eye.
The Victoria Park was gifted to the people of Birkdale and Southport for their enjoyment back in 1898?.
When the Southport Council was created, the responsibility for maintaining this gift transferred over? and eventually it was handed over to Sefton. When the Southport Flower Show was privatised, back in the ?1986, a contract was set up through which the Flower Show company promised to maintain the park for public enjoyment in exchange for being permitted to close the Park to public access ?for a total of 80 days per year.
?
Once preciously guarded, (the former ?Birkdale Council refused a clubhouse for the Croquet Club in 1902 because they did not have the power to allow private clubs exclusive use of any part of a public recreation ground under the
terms of the ?Southport and Cheshire Lines Extension Railway Act of 1882.?) Victoria Park has now apparently been gifted to Mammon.? by T. Dawson

There's nothing in the increasingly senile ramblings of Tony Dawson that refutes what I have said.

[said]

The park is run as a business. The sheds etc are for equipment relating to the Flower Show and othere events.The building is for administrative offices.
There are a number of events held at that venue and all cost money to put on. No doubt the lockdown has seriously affected income, as is the case with most charities.
I never use that park except for going to the Flower Show so closures don't affect me but they are only a small percentage of the year. I know it exercises some people greatly but I'd rather see a well maintained park open for less than a badly maintained one open all year round.
As for drainage etc I can only say that things seem to have greatly improved on past years, when the Flower Show was a quagmire if it rained. The last time it was on the Friday was a total washout and the grass survived quite well. All was dry by the next day.

Of course events need money - but when you consider either the entrance fees to get into an event or/and the daily fees paid by vendors for each pitch, I would estimate a darned good profit earner for all concerned. Entry fees alone in 2018 netted £1 million. This added on to the fees paid by every single stall holder over four days would easily double the money. Then of course is the money from the Caravan Club, etc., unless you are a complete duffer of a businessman you cannot fail to make good profits.

The ground is very low lying and at sea level. After a day of rain, anywhere on the grass you need to wear welly boots if you do not want to get your feet wet. The ground turns marshy just as the archery field still does, just as the Nature Reserve at Hesketh, The Golf Course and Crossens does - that is why soakaways are necessary. The tarmac will only last so long and will require far more maintenance. Compare that to the Botanical Gardens at Kew in London, which is forty feet above sea level.

[salus.populi]

Entry fees alone in 2018 netted £1 million. This added on to the fees paid by every single stall holder over four days would easily double the money.

I don't know where you get your figures or guesswork from but their
accounts show admissions income was £769k and trade stands, concessions and catering stands £337k. So that's around half what you claim.

[sandGroundZero]

Southport Flower Show 2021 cancelled for the second year running

[kelloggs]

I don't think that it is unreasonable. If people enjoy the park and want to then they can help out. If people don't want to then they don't have to donate.

For the second year running there will be no Flower Show, and I expect that many of the other events booked will soon follow.

I think that it is understandable that they ask for donations to cover the upkeep of the park, it is not mandatory and it's not like they are not asking for an entrance fee like other parks in the country.

Many people forget that it is a charity that relies on money from the events held on the park to cover it's continual maintenance and that any profits are put back into improving the park.

Whilst the park is a 'gift to the people,' 'the people' do not pay towards the upkeep of the park in their council tax etc.

In relation to Said's comments, I think if you're not happy about the park then don't visit. You've based your thoughts on information that is a long way from the truth which is half the reason you're upset about it!

The on site offices are used by the Flower Show Team and shed stores equipment to maintain the park and things such as the staging for the flower show. These were built about 25 years ago! The tractor is about 13 years old so hardly new. The 4x4 is a personal vehicle that belongs to the groundsman and not the show or the park.

Also the bit about the Caravan Park subletting the park is completely and utterly false. Victoria Park rent out the park on certain days to Caravan Clubs to bring in money to pay for upkeep, it has nothing to do with the Caravan Park next door. Anyone can rent the park out if they want, providing they have the correct insurances etc.

The park gets wet because it is in an area lower than the surrounding area. Which ever way you go into the park is downhill, so it collects water. There is a pump house that has to pump water out of the park up to the sewers, so without raising the level of the ground by about 12ft then it will always be a naturally wet park when it rains! Look at Rotten Row, same problem there!

[Alikado]

I don't think that it is unreasonable. If people enjoy the park and want to then they can help out. If people don't want to then they don't have to donate.

For the second year running there will be no Flower Show, and I expect that many of the other events booked will soon follow.

I think that it is understandable that they ask for donations to cover the upkeep of the park, it is not mandatory and it's not like they are not asking for an entrance fee like other parks in the country.

Many people forget that it is a charity that relies on money from the events held on the park to cover it's continual maintenance and that any profits are put back into improving the park.

Whilst the park is a 'gift to the people,' 'the people' do not pay towards the upkeep of the park in their council tax etc.

In relation to Said's comments, I think if you're not happy about the park then don't visit. You've based your thoughts on information that is a long way from the truth which is half the reason you're upset about it!

The on site offices are used by the Flower Show Team and shed stores equipment to maintain the park and things such as the staging for the flower show. These were built about 25 years ago! The tractor is about 13 years old so hardly new. The 4x4 is a personal vehicle that belongs to the groundsman and not the show or the park.

Also the bit about the Caravan Park subletting the park is completely and utterly false. Victoria Park rent out the park on certain days to Caravan Clubs to bring in money to pay for upkeep, it has nothing to do with the Caravan Park next door. Anyone can rent the park out if they want, providing they have the correct insurances etc.

The park gets wet because it is in an area lower than the surrounding area. Which ever way you go into the park is downhill, so it collects water. There is a pump house that has to pump water out of the park up to the sewers, so without raising the level of the ground by about 12ft then it will always be a naturally wet park when it rains! Look at Rotten Row, same problem there!

It is actually a business being run by a charity, due to the cancellations they will have received Government support. A condition of the lease is that they allow Public Access and are only allowed to close the park for a limited number of days per year. The groups that rent out parts of the park include the Caravan Club that run the park next door. All groups running any event have to conform to various regulations including planning laws.

[kelloggs]

It is actually a business being run by a charity, due to the cancellations they will have received Government support. A condition of the lease is that they allow Public Access and are only allowed to close the park for a limited number of days per year. The groups that rent out parts of the park include the Caravan Club that run the park next door. All groups running any event have to conform to various regulations including planning laws.

I am aware how it is run, I worked there for 10 years which is what makes it both amusing and frustrating to read some of the drivel people write about the place, especially when it is largely incorrect.