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  1. Published on: 11/06/2018 01:51 PMReported by: roving-eye


    Southport Lib Dem councillors have expressed their concerns over reports that senior Labour council bosses on Merseyside are plotting to create an expanded Liverpool City Council taking in Sefton Council and Knowsley Council.

    Last week, Liverpool’s elected Labour Executive Mayor Joe Anderson told the Financial Times that he would welcome a debate about his council merging with neighbouring Sefton and Knowsley.

    He was reported as saying: “People don’t get borders - they are all Scousers. Liverpool in the 1950s had a million people, but a lot were decanted into surrounding areas. My sister works in Knowsley. I used to work in Sefton.”

    As if Mayor Anderson’s comments weren’t bad enough, they have been reinforced by those of Cllr Andy Moorhouse, Labour Leader of Knowsley Council for three years from 2015. He says “I think that we can put a case forward to the government that Knowsley no longer exists and could be subsumed into Liverpool.”

    However Cllr John Pugh, Southport’s MP until 2017 and now leader of the 12-strong Lib Dem Council Group, has expressed serious concerns about the idea.

    “If we could be guaranteed that Southport, quite possibly with Formby and maybe Hightown, could split off into a separate borough then I’d be all in favour. However I fear that the views of Southport residents will be overruled yet again.”

    “So I think that Southport people, and certainly the Lib Dem councillors they have elected to represent them, need to keep a very close eye on these power grabbing moves by Merseyside Labour politicians.”

    Birkdale’s Cllr Simon Shaw, Deputy Leader of the Lib Dem Group, has also voiced his worries, saying: “I was particularly taken by a quote in the FT article from a Dutch academic who observes that the Europe-wide trend for council mergers can have a ‘negative effect on local democracy’ and that ‘citizens identify less with the new, larger municipality’ and that ‘turnout tends to drop significantly’ “.

    “As a Liberal my default position is that ‘small is beautiful’, although I recognize that you could take that to excess. But what is clear to me is that any attempt to include Southport in this Liverpool mega-council is a recipe for disaster.”

    The FT article from 6th June is at: https://www.ft.com/content/20d857f0-...b-4acfcfb08c11

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  3. Username2016 says:11/06/2018 03:39 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by roving-eye View Post
    However Cllr John Pugh, Southport’s MP until 2017 and now leader of the 12-strong Lib Dem Council Group, has expressed serious concerns about the idea.
    “12 strong” is an interesting term given the 25% loss in seats in the last election despite the spin from Dawson and Shaw of them being the number one party. “Strong” also in that they can’t or don’t achieve anything apart from saying “they’re worried”, noting that this latest Lib Dem bandwagon has nothing abou what they will do other than “watch” and probably raise concerns on local news sites to articulate to the people they represent that they can’t do anything other than score political points, something very easy for a “small” party.


    Birkdale’s Cllr Simon Shaw, Deputy Leader of the Lib Dem Group, has also voiced his worries
    I thought Dan “ward hopping” Lewis was deputy leader, maybe more unrest and fractures in the party.

    Also if you read the actual interview it makes our libs seem desperate and disingenuous for which they deserve to be punished at the ballot box and through basic standards of behaviour

    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...rging-14756310

    Our libs missed some key quotes from the interview (maybe as ft is behind a paywall for some) such as

    There’s nothing wrong with working together informally or more formally, provided everybody agrees. I wouldn’t oppose it.

    But the mayor said any merger wouldn’t be about Liverpool ‘dominating’ other Merseyside authorities.
    Last edited by Username2016; 11/06/2018 at 07:23 PM.

  4. Rhino-Hamster says:11/06/2018 06:35 PM
    Surely a Labour run Southport would have more of a voice, in majority labour meeting, than one crappy Lib Dem. The reason Southport is so often overruled is due to being 'run by the enemy' so to speak.
    I'm sure the real reason Pugh allegedly stepped down was due to running out of ways to mess up Southport, and wave off services.

  5. Gwhizz says:11/06/2018 09:22 PM
    So it seems there is no actual plan... or "plot" to use the Lib-Dems usual overblown language... just a comment that a debate about it would be fine...

    and yet there is an actual policy by Southport Lib-Dem to push for Southport out of Sefton but that's not a "power grab", it's just dandy... despite the fact they are pushing for something that they cannot say what the implications of it are or what the costs to local residents will be.

    ...those Dems getting increasingly desperate.

  6. Gwhizz says:11/06/2018 09:35 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Username2016 View Post
    ...I thought Dan “ward hopping” Lewis was deputy leader, maybe more unrest and fractures in the party.

    Also if you read the actual interview it makes our libs seem desperate and disingenuous for which they deserve to be punished at the ballot box and through basic standards of behaviour
    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...rging-14756310
    Our libs missed some key quotes from the interview (maybe as ft is behind a paywall for some) such as
    It is interesting that Simon is now apparently deputy leader (mind as I suspect he is the author of this usual bit of spin then it could just be his arrogance getting the better of him again) especially as their new parliamentary candidate recently claimed that Southport Lib-Dems is under "new leadership"... so Cllr Pugh has been displaced locally even if he is still apparently the leader of the much reduced Lib-Dem block in Sefton.... I guess when they lose more next year then Cllr Shaw will think they are even more beautiful?

  7. said says:11/06/2018 09:51 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino-Hamster View Post
    Surely a Labour run Southport would have more of a voice, in majority labour meeting, than one crappy Lib Dem. The reason Southport is so often overruled is due to being 'run by the enemy' so to speak.
    I'm sure the real reason Pugh allegedly stepped down was due to running out of ways to mess up Southport, and wave off services.
    Southport has been steadily deteriorating, most notably over the past six years. Residents have seen how the finance from Southport's profitable venues have been funnelled off to the joint council of Liverpool instead of being re-invested in the local area. It has also been noted just how many projects in Liverpool have been started and then not completed due to poor management and ill advised employment of various dubious construction companies.
    Which other region has to fork out for numerous mayoral positions? How many regions have a Labour Council, a Labour Mayor, a Labour Regional Mayor, a Labour deputy Regional Mayor, a Labour commissioner of the Police Authority and a Labour deputy commissioner? Quite the omata in fact!
    There have been numerous promises made to Liverpool people which have not been kept which includes more employment and transparency - and Labour is losing many voters in the Liverpool area.
    Southport is not Liverpool, nor anything like it. Southport has its own identity which residents would like to maintain and would most definitely vote for an independent council, or at the very least to come out of Merseyside. Lancashire has free bus passes and reduced rail fares, they have lower council taxes and lower business rates. Manchester is enjoying a far more successful economy than Liverpool with far more businesses opening than closing - Southport has more in common with Wigan and Manchester than Liverpool. Even Preston, which is Labour - is now seeing a revitalisation that has not occurred in years - while Southport sinks even lower.

  8. Username2016 says:11/06/2018 10:10 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    a Labour commissioner of the Police Authority and a Labour deputy commissioner?
    The PCC was a Lib Dem and Conservative policy, you can see John ought supporting vote here (8 votes for, 0 votes against):

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/11...ns?policy=6696

    It just is unfortunate for the libs that a labour candidate won, which of course is the danger of an election. Then for the deputy being labour, our very own cllr shaw remarked:

    https://www.merseysidepcc.info/home/...DeputyPCC.aspx

    Vice-Chair Cllr Simon Shaw wrote: “The Panel wished to place on record its satisfaction with the openness and transparency of the recruitment process carried out for this position.”
    I think the PCC is a very expensive venture and associated structure but Lib Dem or other claims that it’s a labour stitch up that some would want us to believe just sums up the Southport problem in we have politicians holding us back with bitterness and resentment through tribal and petty politics, for example we should vote lib to keep Tory out even if it’s at the cost of having an ineffectual MP who votes for anti-Southport policies and props up a coalition supporting pretty much every vote other than going against same sex marriage.

  9. Gwhizz says:11/06/2018 10:13 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    Southport has been...
    Marvin, the deterioration over the last six years is due to the cuts in Sefton's budget...soon to be nearly a quarter of a billion... nowt to do with your fantasy of money going from Southport to Liverpool... they are in separate authorities even if they then have LCR overarching, you'll be claiming that Southport money is being stolen by Halton next... and what any of it has to do with you as a Chester resident who has previously been caught out lying about being a local resident is anyone's guess. Little more than you trolling from a distance to agitate here.

  10. Username2016 says:11/06/2018 10:17 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwhizz View Post
    It is interesting that Simon is now apparently deputy leader (mind as I suspect he is the author of.... I guess when they lose more next year then Cllr Shaw will think they are even more beautiful?
    Probably, or maybe prasnee wrote it?

    Next election will be interested as it’s cllr shaws seat up for grabs, no doubt John Pugh will get them fired up under the “fighting with Southport” banner


  11. salus.populi says:11/06/2018 11:40 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by said View Post
    Residents have seen how the finance from Southport's profitable venues have been funnelled off to the joint council of Liverpool instead of being re-invested in the local area. .
    Liverpool City Region is funded from central government as it has responsibility for powers devolved from central government.
    It is not funded by the councils in the region or "Southport's profitable venues".

  12. dav says:12/06/2018 11:15 AM
    Joe Anderson was reported as saying: “People don’t get borders - they are all Scousers. Liverpool in the 1950s had a million people, but a lot were decanted into surrounding areas. My sister works in Knowsley. I used to work in Sefton.”


    Firstly, I'm not an effing Scouser you tub of lard.


    Secondly, it was precisely because your lazy arse didn't actually work in Sefton that Sefton Council fired you.

  13. MargeSimpson says:12/06/2018 11:18 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino-Hamster View Post
    Surely a Labour run Southport would have more of a voice..........
    That's precisely what the Tories said in 1974 when they put forward the request to become part of a Metropolitan District rather than a mere district in Lancashire with most of Southport's services dictated from Preston.

    And look what we got!

    BE SENSIBLE LITTLE HAMSTER YOU ARE TALKING RUBBISH!!!

  14. salus.populi says:12/06/2018 11:28 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by dav View Post
    Joe Anderson was reported as saying: “People don’t get borders - they are all Scousers. Liverpool in the 1950s had a million people, but a lot were decanted into surrounding areas. My sister works in Knowsley. I used to work in Sefton.”


    Firstly, I'm not an effing Scouser you tub of lard.


    Secondly, it was precisely because your lazy arse didn't actually work in Sefton that Sefton Council fired you.
    Lot of scousers in North Wales. Does he want to annexe that as well?. Perhaps he should concentrate on why so many scousers prefer to live outside Liverpool.

  15. Rhino-Hamster says:12/06/2018 09:06 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by MargeSimpson View Post
    That's precisely what the Tories said in 1974 when they put forward the request to become part of a Metropolitan District rather than a mere district in Lancashire with most of Southport's services dictated from Preston.

    And look what we got!

    BE SENSIBLE LITTLE HAMSTER YOU ARE TALKING RUBBISH!!!
    I have no idea what the cons did or thought in 1974, I wasn't born, and I care as much about the lies they were spouting then as the ones they spout today.
    If you have a group of like minded people, making decisions, and one on their own, the enemy, you really think that one has more chance of a vote or debate going in their favour? That makes no sense at all.

    Southport has had loads of money spent on it, the Atkinson has been revamped, that overpriced splashworld/Dunes has had a major revamp, the Ocean Plaza was built, pedestrianisation of Chapel St, that stupid Marine bridge, the one way system and bus lanes presumably cost a fair bit of money, the market has also had a big revamp, the big play area by the lake, full of used needles for kids to sword fight with, to name just a few things off the top of my head, most of which haven't been totally successful, and most if not all under Pugh.
    Personally, I'd trade it all in for how it was, plus maternity services and a childrens emergency care, which Pugh waved off. My personal opinion.


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