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Police
After hearing all the news about the corrupt policeman who murdered Sarah Everard. I was married to a policeman for 22 years. Initially he was a very loving man, we had 2 children, he was never very fatherly to them.
Over the years he changed. When i got my diving license he really changed. I was no longer reliant upon him to take me shopping etc. This he didn't like.
By the time we had been married for about 15 years he admitted that he had been having numerous "relationships".
That is when he really changed and the violence started, black eyes, punches etc.
I know that any man can be violent, but i do feel the the police service changed someone who was a pleasant man into a nasty man.
For the last 25 years i have enjoyed life being on my own, If i do see him, i am always very nice to him, but underneath i really hate him.
Sorry i have gone a bit
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I'm so sorry to hear of your experience. I don't blame you for the way you feel towards your ex. You show commendable restraint when you do meet. You must have felt betrayed and bewildered by the change in a man that you say was once loving.
In America, many far right extremists have enrolled in the police force. They seem to be drawn to the opportunity of using force 'legitimately' as they see it.
Having experienced a change in your ex what do you think was the cause of it and do you think, as you seem to be saying, that there is something in the work he did which brought about the change? Or was his personality type drawn to the police, which exaggerated his traits?
I'm so glad you have managed to create a happy life for yourself.
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I think I've mentioned this before. I was engaged to a policeman in a previous life (or so it feels). Met him at school. You couldn't imagine a kinder, more gentle chap. CND campaigner, supporting all manner of causes.
Then he joined the Met. Trained at Hendon. Still a lovely lad. Then went out as a probationer.
Within a year he'd become a racist, misogynistic, judgemental prick, not to put too fine a point on it. All women (apart from police women, as they were called then) were 'out for something'. Anyone unemployed was probably a criminal, and the racism was off the charts.
Before I dumped him, at which point he became violent, we did have a long talk about the changes in him. He reckoned that it was the only way to fit in. The only way his colleagues would accept him. Then the more he saw, the more he accepted their attitude. Eventually it became second nature, he actually believed it.
Hearing particularly women's experiences in the Met, I can see how that attitude from the 80s prevails today. You don't join in, then next time you radio for help, it doesn't come. Psychologically it becomes 'us against them'. I can see how Couzens wasn't reported earlier.
That has to change.
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Originally Posted by Chris R
After hearing all the news about the corrupt policeman who murdered Sarah Everard. I was married to a policeman for 22 years. Initially he was a very loving man, we had 2 children, he was never very fatherly to them.
Over the years he changed. When i got my diving license he really changed. I was no longer reliant upon him to take me shopping etc. This he didn't like.
By the time we had been married for about 15 years he admitted that he had been having numerous "relationships".
That is when he really changed and the violence started, black eyes, punches etc.
I know that any man can be violent, but i do feel the the police service changed someone who was a pleasant man into a nasty man.
For the last 25 years i have enjoyed life being on my own, If i do see him, i am always very nice to him, but underneath i really hate him.
Sorry i have gone a bit
I'm sorry to hear that and my sympathy goes out to you, I am not trying to defend it in any way but in a way society has made the Police fair game at one time you looked the wrong way at a Policeman or gave him cheek you'd get instant justice around the ear hole.
Society is now making the Police toothless the language used against them would have at one time got you a Court appearance for using "Foul and Abusive Language".
Now violence towards Police is common and the justice system is a joke thanks to various Home Secretary's actions towards the Police. And the Crown Persecution Service do Police NO favours.
I know lots of Bobbies that have got sick and tired of the whole lot and left and walked into far better paid jobs without the hassle.
Perhaps this was the beginning when your ex husband started to acting in a manner not becoming his status because the criminal was better thought of than both the Victim and The Police who arrested them. As I said I am not condoning it in any way but you hear a lot about PTSD which 40 years ago wasn't even recognised you see things on a regular basis that the public never see in their lives and it must take a lot of blame because it builds up and builds up until it has to give and usually the nearest to them are the ones to suffer.
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Originally Posted by Chris R
After hearing all the news about the corrupt policeman who murdered Sarah Everard. I was married to a policeman for 22 years. Initially he was a very loving man, we had 2 children, he was never very fatherly to them.
Over the years he changed. When i got my diving license he really changed. I was no longer reliant upon him to take me shopping etc. This he didn't like.
By the time we had been married for about 15 years he admitted that he had been having numerous "relationships".
That is when he really changed and the violence started, black eyes, punches etc.
I know that any man can be violent, but i do feel the the police service changed someone who was a pleasant man into a nasty man.
For the last 25 years i have enjoyed life being on my own, If i do see him, i am always very nice to him, but underneath i really hate him.
Sorry i have gone a bit
It took a lot of courage to escape such a relationship you have every reason to hate a person who took so much from you.
I understand your point about his job.
It happens with soldiers too and other stressful confrontational jobs with the public.
Whether it is a person who fails in duty of care under pressure or a person who finds a way to cope with work pressures that is damaging to those around them.
Did your ex's employers know he was a wife abuser?
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Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty
I think I've mentioned this before. I was engaged to a policeman in a previous life (or so it feels). Met him at school. You couldn't imagine a kinder, more gentle chap. CND campaigner, supporting all manner of causes.
Then he joined the Met. Trained at Hendon. Still a lovely lad. Then went out as a probationer.
Within a year he'd become a racist, misogynistic, judgemental prick, not to put too fine a point on it. All women (apart from police women, as they were called then) were 'out for something'. Anyone unemployed was probably a criminal, and the racism was off the charts.
Before I dumped him, at which point he became violent, we did have a long talk about the changes in him. He reckoned that it was the only way to fit in. The only way his colleagues would accept him. Then the more he saw, the more he accepted their attitude. Eventually it became second nature, he actually believed it.
Hearing particularly women's experiences in the Met, I can see how that attitude from the 80s prevails today. You don't join in, then next time you radio for help, it doesn't come. Psychologically it becomes 'us against them'. I can see how Couzens wasn't reported earlier.
That has to change.
I was thinking of the women officers also.
How frustrating when they are sent to complaints of woman harassment
whilst enduring it from colleagues.
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You have to have some empathy for the Police they spend their day with societies worst and unfortunately do get to spot a criminal at 50 yards so often it undermines their objectivity and colours their thinking.
If you keep on picking up the same sort for doing the same thing again and again it must affect you.
We who are lucky enough not to be Police officers can afford to be more tolerant and open-minded but let's be frank, it isn't women raping and killing 99% of the time so why wouldn't a Police Officer not be more suspicious of men?
It filters down throughout other crime if we are realistic.
Perhaps the way ahead is for us to be more realistic and Police to have regular independent evaluations.
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The stories of Chris and Toodles are not uncommon, I have a nephew who was in Lancs Police who left after a couple of years because of the toxic culture, he says it is totally corrupt, stories and notes are always sorted out to get the story right. I had a stepson who was in the Met he became a total mess, the culture was a lads one of drinking, gambling and socialising at the end of EVERY shift having to go with the rest of the crew to the bookies or snooker hall, the work talk was of 'Ethnics' who were guilty or just reporting something to try and make a claim, he died , a lost marriage and family a total alcoholic.
The reason so many cases fail or fail to get to court is mostly because of sloppy police work and cases not presented promptly, witnesses move on and can't be traced and memories fade, justice needs to prompt to succeed and be efficient.
The Police need reforming there are too many who think they are Rambo or God we need to revert back to the Police of 50 years ago, investigation needs to be a separate body similar to the FBI organised crime is now regional / national / international and the Investigation of it also needs to move up to be effective, there has been too much discarded / ignored because it's 'not our patch' we'll just pass the info on - eventually.
Specialist back up services such as entry teams and armed support need to be handed over to the military who are well trained in the procedures this would avoid complications caused by the shrinking military and avoid duplication of training.
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Despite my and other's experiences, I still think the police do an amazing job, all things considered.
But sadly experiences such as mine, Chris and Ali's nephew aren't rare.
And it is really infuriating when a woman has climbed that greasy pole, got the ultimate job for an officer, and evidently done little to reform this toxic boy's club.
If Cressida Dick has attempted reform, she's failed. If she's not attempted reform, she should be kicked out. I sincerely hope the North Yorkshire Police Commissioner Philip Allott, who said Sarah Everard "never should have submitted" to the arrest will be given his marching orders.
Or he's basically gotten away with saying that it was Sarah's own fault she was raped, murdered and burned. She should have been more aware of arrest procedures.
Astounding. What chance have we got?
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Originally Posted by local
You have to have some empathy for the Police they spend their day with societies worst and unfortunately do get to spot a criminal at 50 yards so often it undermines their objectivity and colours their thinking.
If you keep on picking up the same sort for doing the same thing again and again it must affect you.
We who are lucky enough not to be Police officers can afford to be more tolerant and open-minded but let's be frank, it isn't women raping and killing 99% of the time so why wouldn't a Police Officer not be more suspicious of men?
It filters down throughout other crime if we are realistic.
Perhaps the way ahead is for us to be more realistic and Police to have regular independent evaluations.
All of that may be true but it doesn't necessarily translate to misogynist behaviour. All too often those attitudes arrive in the police force with the candidate and are reinforced by group think. Much better and thorough screening needs to be done when applications to join are made.
If anyone has been following the Petito murder and Laundrie disappearance in the US you will have seen a classic dissonance in the way the woman and the man were interviewed and treated before the tragic events unfolded.
Beats me how some men who are fathers of daughters can still talk disrespectfully about women.
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Originally Posted by Alikado
The stories of Chris and Toodles are not uncommon, I have a nephew who was in Lancs Police who left after a couple of years because of the toxic culture, he says it is totally corrupt, stories and notes are always sorted out to get the story right. I had a stepson who was in the Met he became a total mess, the culture was a lads one of drinking, gambling and socialising at the end of EVERY shift having to go with the rest of the crew to the bookies or snooker hall, the work talk was of 'Ethnics' who were guilty or just reporting something to try and make a claim, he died , a lost marriage and family a total alcoholic.
The reason so many cases fail or fail to get to court is mostly because of sloppy police work and cases not presented promptly, witnesses move on and can't be traced and memories fade, justice needs to prompt to succeed and be efficient.
The Police need reforming there are too many who think they are Rambo or God we need to revert back to the Police of 50 years ago, investigation needs to be a separate body similar to the FBI organised crime is now regional / national / international and the Investigation of it also needs to move up to be effective, there has been too much discarded / ignored because it's 'not our patch' we'll just pass the info on - eventually.
Specialist back up services such as entry teams and armed support need to be handed over to the military who are well trained in the procedures this would avoid complications caused by the shrinking military and avoid duplication of training.
I disagree! Bringing in more restrictions is not going to help anyone. By handing the work over to the military will end in tears. The military have been trained to deal with one type of person i.e. warring adversaries. They are unsuitable for dealing with fraudsters, con men, drug dealers, forgers etc., I can see a situation where there is a load of jar heads shooting everyone dead and claiming 'job done'
The Police were highly respected years ago when they were congratulated for handling issues well, or for upholding the status of the force. Today, the Police are expected to investigate people while ensuring that they do not upset them, to arrest people for wrongdoing while having their hands tied and their lips sealed and if they are attacked while carrying out their duties, they are practically expected to apologise to the attacker - all because of all this Political correctness nonsense.
The Police Force does not need overhauling - it is those who have been put in charge of running the Police Forces who should step down - they are a very costly waste of tax payers money. Let those who join the Police Force be the type who want to help people and who want to see crime off our streets. Choose only those who have a good experience of people, who have courage, and understand who they will need to face. Get rid of those who only join because it give them a sense of superiority. Put the smaller less, intimidating Police on desk duty and let the others do the job of Policing naturally and with common sense. i.e Stop telling people how to do their job - they are trained and should know how to do it! If they fall below standard - deal with it, if they do well, commend them. It does not take much, just intelligence from the higher ranks!
I am sorry that it is the wives or girl friends that these Officers take their frustrations out on - but I know just how frustrating some institutions can be.
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Originally Posted by said
Put the smaller less, intimidating Police on desk duty and let the others do the job of Policing naturally and with common sense.
Keep the female officers for the filing, I presume...
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We are a victim blaming society for just about every scum bag criminal activity going because the institutions we rely on don't want to take responsibility.
Advice to flag down a bus etc is beyond any form of joke.
Girls,women thats your mum,sister,gran etc just want to live without fear that isn't too much to ask for.
We cannot change this problem without getting to its core and thats men and women who tolerate bad behaviour in others or ignore it because "its not my problem" it is.
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Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty
Keep the female officers for the filing, I presume...
There's plenty of officers of both sexes who seem more capable of filing.
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Quote
'They joke about raping women and stuffing them in the boot': female police officers tell their work stories
The Everyday Sexism Project has been inundated with anonymous accounts of misogyny and sexism from female officers
By
Laura Bates,
FOUNDER OF THE EVERYDAY SEXISM PROJECT
1 October 2021 • 6:57pm
This week we learned the devastating news that Wayne Couzens used his warrant card and handcuffs to falsely arrest Sarah Everard and strangled her with his police belt. He wasn’t just a rapist and murderer who happened to be a police officer. He was a rapist and murderer who deliberately exploited his status as a police officer to commit his heinous crimes.
As news emerges that Couzens was part of a WhatsApp group where he shared “discriminatory” messages and misogynistic content with five other serving officers; it becomes ever clearer that he was not an aberration.
Even as they guarded the cordon where Sarah’s remains were found, other officers were sharing memes about kidnap and murder. Just a year before, yet more officers were taking selfies of themselves with the bodies of murdered Black women Bibaa Henry and Nicole Smallman. It is a culture that condoned misogyny.
Nowhere is that culture clearer than in the entries that have poured into my Everyday Sexism Project. Hundreds of entries from members of the public outline the sexism, racism and class prejudice they have faced from police officers.
But the allegations that really demonstrate just how deeply structural inequality runs through policing are the ones that come from women working within that system themselves.
Women working in policing - many of them currently serving officers in the Metropolitan Police - have written about their experiences of sexual harassment, discrimination, abuse and assault. There are also a disturbing number of stories from women whose partners or ex-partners are police officers. The examples, like the problem itself, are not restricted to the Met. Their stories are proof that this is an institutional problem, and one that requires a deep and systemic response.
In spite of all this, the police seem prepared to go to almost any lengths to avoid systemic scrutiny. In a shocking new low in victim blaming, North Yorkshire Police, Fire and Crime Commissioner Philip Allott today told a BBC radio program: “Perhaps women need to consider in terms of the legal process, to just learn a bit about that legal process.” Referring to Sarah Everard, he said: "So women, first of all, need to be streetwise about when they can be arrested and when they can't be arrested. She should never have been arrested and submitted to that.”
Such victim blaming, which has today also seen police suggest that women attempt to flag down a passing bus if they have suspicions about an officer, requires a truly shocking refusal to confront systemic failings in the police force. The anonymous stories of these women show those systemic failings in devastating detail. We should listen to them...
"If you had to be raped by one of us..."
“I was out for a drink with colleagues on Friday and was the only female in the group. At one point, two of them, decided to ask me whether if I had to be raped by one of them which one would I prefer.
Seeing the look of disbelief on my face, they then rephrased the question to ask if they were both rapists, which one would I not mind. I was absolutely horrified and asked them if they we're serious.
Several of my other male colleagues looked uncomfortable but didn't say anything. I made my excuses and left, with a smile on my face, but inwardly furious. I'm in my late forties and these colleagues were a few years older. We're all police officers.”
"Women are seen as barely more than the sum of their sexual parts"
“I am a police officer in London and there are days when the sexism and misogyny is almost too much. When a male grudgingly compliments a female officer's capability, 'she's good' is always closely followed by 'for a girl'.
Any criticism of a woman is always based on her physical appearance, and any female who falls short of a Page 3 stunner is verbally ripped to shreds. Any woman under a C bra-cup is also absolutely denigrated, and is considered as barely qualifying as a woman. The constant drip drip of female objectification is hard to take, with women often being regarded as barely more than the sum of their sexual parts.
One of my favourite remarks uttered by a male colleague recently, in reference to a red-headed woman, was ‘I bet she's got an angry c---’.”
"My husband is part of the problem"
“My husband is a police officer and almost always uses words like; useless, idiot, b----, c--- or 'thick piece of s---' when referring to female officers. Especially the ones in management who "only got there because they have a p---- and the police are trying to be so politically correct".”
"He put his hand down my bra"
“I had been on a leaving do for a work colleague. I was giving a group of people a lift home, and this one particular person, married, a father, was the last to get out of my car. He was drunk but not so he wasn’t compos mentis... I pulled up at traffic lights and he leaned over and forced his hand down my shirt and straight into my bra.
I elbowed him away and told him to pack it in, I didn’t fancy him, he was married etc. He kept directing me the wrong way to his house and kept doing this, lunging into my top and grabbing my breasts while I was driving. I eventually pulled over and shoved him out of the car.
What makes it worse? He's a police sergeant. And I still have to see him regularly. I didn’t report him because I knew he'd deny it, I'd have to go through the trial process, and every other police officer who I work with daily would know I had made this complaint and most wouldn’t believe me.
I was the victim of sexual assault and it would have been MY career ruined.”
"They joked about kidnapping and mutilating women"
“My ex-partner was a police officer. He told me occasionally about the ‘black-humoured banter’ him and ‘the lads’ would engage in, that it was part and parcel of the job and that if I didn't find it funny it was because I didn't understand.
One story was apparently if they passed attractive women in the street in the police car, they would discuss how they would love to kidnap her, mutilate her body and stuff her in the boot. That apparently was hilarious.
I'm not making this up. When I didn't find it funny he told me I just didn't share their sense of humour.”
"I'm told to make the tea"
“I am the only female on a section of emergency response police officers. I am the butt of daily jokes, none of which are funny, all of which are tedious. I am called "slit arse", "whoopsy" and told frequently to get in the kitchen and make the tea - because that's all we are good for apparently.
At best this institutionalised sexism extends to me being always assigned to incidents that involve children and or sex offences against women. While I find helping these victims of crime enormously rewarding, it is a foregone conclusion that as the only woman on section I should deal with them.”
"They look at porn at work"
“I have to listen to daily conversational drivel involving football, female breasts and genitalia, Playsation shoot 'em ups and other brain numbing tripe. The men… that I have to endure working with look at porn on their mobiles almost daily and make revolting and shallow comments about my female colleagues and female members of the public.”
“If a female officer gets promoted to specialist role I have to endure days of their bitter remarks about positive discrimination. I have never heard any of them praise a female officer for her achievements on merit…”
I love my job, and endure the working conditions because I know if I complain I will be sidelined to some obscure office at the farthest reaches of my force.”
"Rape evidence was passed around for laughs"
“I was appalled by the way rape victims were spoken about. I had only been in the job six months when my crew mate showed around the evidence from a rape victim who had been left with very soiled underwear.
The offending item was in a sealed forensic bag waiting to be booked into property - when he ran about the office waving the stained crotch, visible through the clear seams of the bag, in people's faces. Oh how they all laughed.”
"Rape is funny"
“I work with a police officer who used to be on the rape unit. He thinks rape is funny and referred to women as 'hookers' on Twitter.... Yep, he still has a job.”
"Non-stop sexism"
“I used to be a Sergeant in the Police Force and encountered pretty much non-stop sexism from day one. I had my bottom squeezed by my patrol partner who I was meant to patrol with, on foot, every day alone.”
"What a firm grip she has"
“When I did my three week driver training course I spent eight hours a day in a patrol car with three other officers. Every time it was my turn to drive the instructor would, without fail, make a comment like ‘Ooh - look at the way she handles the knob’ or 'What a firm grip she has'. It was relentless.”
"My boss fancied me"
“I worked really hard, passed my Sergeant exams after only two years and was promoted.
On the way back to the station from a meeting, the senior male officer I was with - my boss - stopped the car and told me he really fancied me… why did I think he had helped me get promoted?”
"He had been doing this for 30 years"
“After two years of being groped and continual sexual comments by my boss, one of my male colleagues stepped in and blew the whistle. He was disgusted by the behaviour but because of the rank structure felt unable to do anything until he actually felt I was in danger.
Thankfully everyone believed me and he is no longer in his job. What was even scarier was the number of women who subsequently came forward and told their story of this man's behaviour towards them.
He had been behaving in this manner for nearly 30 years.”
"If we complain, we're 'dangerous'"
“Officers who did make complaints were deemed 'dangerous' and were not to be spoken to. 'Don't talk to her - she'll make a complaint about you.' They weren't backed up at incidents and were not supported in their work.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/li...officers-tell/
In contrast the nhs has managed a system of zero tolerance for foul behaviour.
The police could start with putting the onus on colleague's to challenge
messages and remarks and reject the conversations below common decency.
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